Cancel Culture

[Gypsy Nirvana]

The Right to Protest & Offend! - by Johnathan Pie - this is a great rant!!

The Right to Protest & Offend! - YouTube

 

[flylowgethigh]

The official propaganda is all that will be tolerated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWgS3jP1f50

 

[Guest]

Gypsy, Gai, i'm really sorry to be kicking up a fuss about all this. Believe me, i don't relish the thought of picking an argument with the owner and supermod of the Cannabis forum and community i love so much.
I'm not asking for left wing bias.. that would be just as wrong as the right-wing bias that i'm objecting to.
All i'm asking for is neutrality.... and stickying your own pet subjects is not being neutral.
This is a cannabis community, to bring political discussion here is potentially deeply divisive -and i'm sure that many members here would think it best left alone (as do i)... though i do concede that maybe there is an argument for having these discussions - but only if they are conducted on a level playing field.
Gypsy, you are clearly more interested in discussing politics/culture these days than you are in discussing cannabis - but you've got to understand that this is still a canna forum and some of these topics that you are promoting are going to offend people and drive them away... - which seems a shame when we are largely here because we are united in our love of cannabis.
As someone who has spent the last 12 years here posting content, building a profile and little seed biz here, i object strongly to the imposition of that political agenda which i feel reflects on the nature of the whole site, including myself.
Again, i'm not asking for you to delete the threads or stop posting in the threads... there is nothing to stop you bumping them every day, but to make them stickies is biased and wrong mate, and it leads to people feeling alienated from the whole site - which is bad for the community and bad for business!
One thing i hope is beyond question is my love and loyalty to IC, and it is exactly that which is making me stand up and be counted about this issue.
sincerely,
VG

I struggle to understand why a Cannabis Forum promotes ultra right wing viewpoints. I can see that Gaius is captivated by the Conservative values of his Nation ... that seemingly he does not or cannot ... think beyond those values.
But that Gypsy, with his, shall we say Bohemian background, would reject Humanist viewpoints ... is staggering for me and one reason why I don't look here much.
Disappointed I guess ...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I struggle to understand why a Cannabis Forum promotes ultra right wing viewpoints. I can see that Gaius is captivated by the Conservative values of his Nation ... that seemingly he does not or cannot ... think beyond those values.
But that Gypsy, with his, shall we say Bohemian background, would reject Humanist viewpoints ... is staggering for me and one reason why I don't look here much.
Disappointed I guess ...

- ehh - can you be more specific re - 'Humanist Viewpoints' - and about rejecting them - because I can't make head nor tail of that - and you obviously look here enough to make a post - lol

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Sorry mate, Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park is where people go to stand up and be heard... everyone has an equal chance to get the people's attention with the merit of their argument and their debating skills.... you call this speakers corner, but your sticky'd threads are bit like setting up a 10K rig to drown everyone else out! They completely undermine all your arguments about free/fair debate and discussion being important, which otherwise are quite sound.
VG

- you have an equal chance to get anyone's attention - but what you have to do - is make a thread first - lets see your debating skills and the merit of your argument - doing anything in this forum - other than criticizing me - don't feel so threatened by a coupla stuck threads - they won't bite ya - and you too could join that lofty 10k rig position - IF only you would try - but you won't of course due to a very duff excuse - if you don't mind me saying -

 

[Chi13]

you are making this way more complicated then it needs to be. i have no issue with people deciding where to spend or not spend their money, its only when you want to force others not to spend or to spend that i have a problem. finding examples of ridiculous people saying silly shit and using that to say it doesn't exist is missing the point.

basically the argument you dug up and quoted above, goes like this, oh people are fighting back against having people they like cancelled, so that means cancel culture doesn't exist. then you bring a bunch of terrible examples. the ones you still see and hear about are the ones that didnt get successfully cancelled btw. because most normal thinking people don't like the idea of cancelling a human being. as Gypsy said this crowd is so rabid that there is never a path to redemption, if you apologize its not good enough. so yes i agree with Gypsy, this culture of absolutes and hate for non main stream thinking has to be resisted.

I have found it pretty frustrating debating you in the past but I will have a brief go here and try and leave it at that. I will try and use a few examples. I am nearly 60 and my formative years were in the 60s and 70s. Back then views were different. I will use 3 groups as examples, none of which I am, so I have no dog in the fight. I am a white heterosexual male. This was a time when you could say and get away with things like racism, sexism, and homophobic speak with no consequences. Like Gypsy's video he just posted, wanting the right to vilify. To me that sort of attitude causes great harm to a healthy society, and to individuals.

When I went to school homosexuals were vilified. They were portrayed as effeminate in popular culture and somthing to be poked fun at, and the last thing you wanted to be in the school playground was gay. People who were a bit different basically got ridiculed and even bashed in te school yard. It went as far as gay people actually being attacked and some killed. A pastime for some young Australian adults was "poofta bashing" in Sydney. This was a real thing and there were some famous murder cases. Suicide rates amongst this group was quite high, particularly youth suicide. Laws and community standards have changed over time. It is no longer legal to discriminate due to sexual preference. Suicide rates are still high, but lower than they were.

If you were Australian Indigenous, you didn't even have the right to vote until 1967. The aboriginal culture had been controlled by various government interventions since white settlement, they had been put on reservatons, were fringe dwellers on the outskirts of towns, were not given jobs unless it was convenient to do so, and were ridiculed by many as lazy and alcoholic. They have been pushing shit uphill ever since. Eventually laws came in that gave the vote, and outlawed discrimination on race. However generations of racism doesn't change overnight. A people who have lived on the outside of society for so long has become a self fulfilling prophecy. Alcohol, unemployment rates are high, and there are still some with very negative attitudes. Suicide rates are still high and the life expectancey and incarceration rate of aboriginals is a national shame.

I also grew up when sexism was rife. Few women had jobs. Domestic violence was common and not reported. Men could get away with rape, especially in marriage. Women had little economic freedom. Australia was conservative and sexist. Laws have changed and community standards are such that there is a "me too" movement to call out the worst excesses of sexist culture. Ironically here the last bastion of this seems to be the Australain parliament, where a rape in the parliament building was actually covered up. Our conservative Prime Minister keeps digging himself a bigger hole with his outdated attitudes.

To me the anit "cancel culture" movement now wants the right to vilify these groups again, without consequence and undermine laws put in place to protect these groups. They think it has gone too far the other way. You portray these people as "normal thinking people". I disagree; I think that largely community values have changed and for the better. Much of this kickback has come from the conservative Right, some of the most privilaged in societey. I certainly don't want to go back to a past where it was ok to say vile things about others, where different races were portrayed as something less, where women were second class citizens. Real harm was done to a whole lot of people. Excuse me if I think that a return to these days and attitudes is a massive backward step.

I am happyif there are consequences for saying things that are bigotted; that are dangerous and wrong. Peoples views aren't being cancelled in my view as they are there all over the internet. Getting banned from Twitter does not mean that you are silenced; it just means you can't post your shit on Twitter. The irony of people making youtube clips about them being silenced. Lol.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” ― George Orwell

 

[Veggia farmer]

Speaking of the poster, he says: 'I wanted it to be like a Clash album cover so people start to get it into their heads that politics is now rock and roll.

'The arts are meant to challenge cultural norms, but that's dead now. Politics is the only place you can challenge those little woke b*****ds.'

* interesting article about Lawrence Fox - a 'Cancelled' actor - so claimed to be -
Laurence Fox: The tyranny of the woke mob has made me realise how the Nazis came to power | Daily Mail Online

This so called modern world that change so fast. or was it fashion that changed fast?, anyone remember know your right by the Clash? Seems like from my point of view that a lot of the same "rules/norm" whatever we wanna call it is the same. Is them based cultural as an Norm after generations of social fine tuning OR is it Rules applied by someone with Power behind the curtains?

 

[Veggia farmer]

Yeah - I will agree - all this Nazi referencing is a bit rich - since being a National Socialist kinda lost its shine in the 1940's - but it gets the headlines - anything with 'Nazi' in it seems to get the headlines -

- The 'Good Old Days?' - when you could make a joke about an Irishman - and an Irishman could make a joke about you - or a Scotsman - or a Welshman - and no-one really took offence - because it was humour/banter - 'there is no greater talent - than to be able to laugh at yourself ' - someone once said to me -

[/URL]

Someday I will take my ship with my men full of beer and amanitas and steal your Tinker horse!

hihihihi

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yeah Veggie - lets have a bit of The Clash - RIP Joe -

The Clash - Know Your Rights (with lyrics) police protests, 2015, 2020 - YouTube

Harry Enfield - Gay Son - YouTube -

 

[gaiusmarius]

I struggle to understand why a Cannabis Forum promotes ultra right wing viewpoints. I can see that Gaius is captivated by the Conservative values of his Nation ... that seemingly he does not or cannot ... think beyond those values.
But that Gypsy, with his, shall we say Bohemian background, would reject Humanist viewpoints ... is staggering for me and one reason why I don't look here much.
Disappointed I guess ...

you call Switzerland conservative? hehehehhe. this is one of the freest nations of Europe ill have you know, we are the 3rd happiest people in the world for fucks sake! conservative my bollocks. we have 7 presidents and only 2 are conservative party members.

by calling me conservative you are making it very easy for yourself, my life has led me to gather opinions and beliefs from all over the place.

is my stance on Israel conservative? what about on Iran, Iraq? am i pro regime change wars? fuck no! my views are in fact entirely humanistic. i would argue those of you always making every subject about SIDES, are the ones causing division and ultimately conflict and suffering.

i respect all human life, i don't differentiate by the fucking political side they are on, or what color they are, or where they put their sexual organs, or what organs they in fact have.

my views are in fact a big mix of ideas from leftism, communism, islam, budism, christianty and yes some conservativism too. things that make sense to me, things that i can logically see the good in for humanity. human being are complex and labelling them as seems to be the fashion nowadays, is just a way to keep us divided against each other while the elite billionaires keep on getting wealthier on more powerful while we get poorer and less free.

as a weed smoker you should know better then to fall for the whole SIDES thing. we are all humans and we need to get along and stop being pawns for the elite to keep us divided and weak when we are soooooo strong when we unite.

 

[gaiusmarius]

I have found it pretty frustrating debating you in the past but I will have a brief go here and try and leave it at that. I will try and use a few examples. I am nearly 60 and my formative years were in the 60s and 70s. Back then views were different. I will use 3 groups as examples, none of which I am, so I have no dog in the fight. I am a white heterosexual male. This was a time when you could say and get away with things like racism, sexism, and homophobic speak with no consequences. Like Gypsy's video he just posted, wanting the right to vilify. To me that sort of attitude causes great harm to a healthy society, and to individuals.

When I went to school homosexuals were vilified. They were portrayed as effeminate in popular culture and somthing to be poked fun at, and the last thing you wanted to be in the school playground was gay. People who were a bit different basically got ridiculed and even bashed in te school yard. It went as far as gay people actually being attacked and some killed. A pastime for some young Australian adults was "poofta bashing" in Sydney. This was a real thing and there were some famous murder cases. Suicide rates amongst this group was quite high, particularly youth suicide. Laws and community standards have changed over time. It is no longer legal to discriminate due to sexual preference. Suicide rates are still high, but lower than they were.

If you were Australian Indigenous, you didn't even have the right to vote until 1967. The aboriginal culture had been controlled by various government interventions since white settlement, they had been put on reservatons, were fringe dwellers on the outskirts of towns, were not given jobs unless it was convenient to do so, and were ridiculed by many as lazy and alcoholic. They have been pushing shit uphill ever since. Eventually laws came in that gave the vote, and outlawed discrimination on race. However generations of racism doesn't change overnight. A people who have lived on the outside of society for so long has become a self fulfilling prophecy. Alcohol, unemployment rates are high, and there are still some with very negative attitudes. Suicide rates are still high and the life expectancey and incarceration rate of aboriginals is a national shame.

I also grew up when sexism was rife. Few women had jobs. Domestic violence was common and not reported. Men could get away with rape, especially in marriage. Women had little economic freedom. Australia was conservative and sexist. Laws have changed and community standards are such that there is a "me too" movement to call out the worst excesses of sexist culture. Ironically here the last bastion of this seems to be the Australain parliament, where a rape in the parliament building was actually covered up. Our conservative Prime Minister keeps digging himself a bigger hole with his outdated attitudes.

To me the anit "cancel culture" movement now wants the right to vilify these groups again, without consequence and undermine laws put in place to protect these groups. They think it has gone too far the other way. You portray these people as "normal thinking people". I disagree; I think that largely community values have changed and for the better. Much of this kickback has come from the conservative Right, some of the most privilaged in societey. I certainly don't want to go back to a past where it was ok to say vile things about others, where different races were portrayed as something less, where women were second class citizens. Real harm was done to a whole lot of people. Excuse me if I think that a return to these days and attitudes is a massive backward step.

I am happyif there are consequences for saying things that are bigotted; that are dangerous and wrong. Peoples views aren't being cancelled in my view as they are there all over the internet. Getting banned from Twitter does not mean that you are silenced; it just means you can't post your shit on Twitter. The irony of people making youtube clips about them being silenced. Lol.

lol, debate should be challenging when topics are important to people and complicated. i freely admit some frustration debating with you too, lmao. but i actually respect that you make it hard, thats how its supposed to be. you actually bring up substantive stuff and you debate the point. so far you have refrained from calling me a right winger which says a lot about your character imo. you actually engage in the topic at hand without resorting to baseless insults.

having said all that, you will notice a glaring fact in your own presentations of examples of open bigotry, mysegony, homophobia etc, they are OLD. they happened in the past. there are now laws on the books in most of the civilised world that protect humans from these things and society as a whole looks on such behaviour with contempt. except in some countries where gays still get lashed and woman still get locked up, but no one dares speak up about that shit. while we are scandalized when a comedian makes a racist or homophobic joke. even though we know full well that he is not a white supremacist we all of a sudden say it makes him one and when he apologizes it just gets worse. like i said before. this thing will spread to your own hereos of thought if you let it. what can be done to 1 can be done to all.

we have laws on the books about what you are allowed to say and what not. if someone breaks those laws then you should use the judiciary to deal with it, not some bot net led outrage mob.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- Yeah - we don't see none of that misogyny - homophobia and bigotry - because we have been making fun of it - since the 60's -

Women: Know Your Limits! Harry Enfield - BBC comedy Reaction - YouTube

 

[gaiusmarius]

When The Rules Of Cancel Culture Comeback To Haunt You




lol, thank the YT algo for this, on topic though...

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Good to see Will Smith still has a gig during the pandemic.....lol

 

[Cannavore]

you call Switzerland conservative? hehehehhe. this is one of the freest nations of Europe ill have you know, we are the 3rd happiest people in the world for fucks sake! conservative my bollocks. we have 7 presidents and only 2 are conservative party members.

by calling me conservative you are making it very easy for yourself, my life has led me to gather opinions and beliefs from all over the place.

just because i was curious i looked your country up.... the three largest parties by member affiliation in your country are all center right, or just right wing. with the social democrats (international centrist position - bernie sanders) being the 4th largest party and the smallest amongst the 4 big ones.

 

[gaiusmarius]

the svp is the right wing party, all the others are on the woke train. the svp can't pass anything without support from the other parties. so no, we are not ruled by conservatives at this time. we have had the svp in the majority before too, but not for a long time. we have open immigration, we have health care for all, we have free education, we have automatic jobless insurance, we have wealfare levels that make you seem well off compared to the rest of the world. our government has just passed rules that mean the government has to employ and equal amount of men and woman from top level leadership down to the useless bureaucrats. are you saying those are conservative policies? our police have been hiding the nationality of criminals ffs! if all that is conservative then i guess switzerland is conservative, just maybe thats why we are the third happiest people on earth, lmao.

 

[Microbeman]

the svp is the right wing party, all the others are on the woke train. the svp can't pass anything without support from the other parties. so no, we are not ruled by conservatives at this time. we have had the svp in the majority before too, but not for a long time. we have open immigration, we have health care for all, we have free education, we have automatic jobless insurance, we have wealfare levels that make you seem well off compared to the rest of the world. our government has just passed rules that mean the government has to employ and equal amount of men and woman from top level leadership down to the useless bureaucrats. are you saying those are conservative policies? our police have been hiding the nationality of criminals ffs! if all that is conservative then i guess switzerland is conservative, just maybe thats why we are the third happiest people on earth, lmao.

I heard Jamaica was the happiest but they forgot to get on the list... .

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

I heard Jamaica was the happiest but they forgot to get on the list... .

And here I've been led to believe it was Magic Kingdom

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- I was perusing thru The Daily Fail this morning - and came across this article about Ricky Gervais - a very outspoken comedian - telling it like it is - but then looking to be 'Cancelled' by 1.7 Billion members of a religious cult - where 'Cancelled' could really - literally mean 'Cancelled!' - what a brave man - although some might see that bravery as foolishness - I applaud him -

'What next? People being punished for insulting unicorns?': Ricky Gervais ridicules furious backlash at teacher who 'showed Prophet Muhammad cartoon' to class

• Mr Gervais, an atheist, has mocked protests outside West Yorkshire School saying: It's 2021 for f**k's sake'
• Batley Grammar School closed to all students at last minute amid ongoing row over RE teacher's lesson
• Amateur rugby player, in his late 20s, had trained to teach in the mid-2010s and hailed his 'fantastic' job
• But 'burly Yorkshire lad' allegedly showed cartoon of Prophet Muhammad at Batley Grammar School
• He has been suspended from his job and is getting police advice after incident this week
• Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has now condemned the death threats made against the teacher
• ** Are you a parent of a child at Batley Grammar School?
• Ricky Gervais has today ridiculed Muslims angry with a teacher given death threats after allegedly showing cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad to students, declaring: 'What next? People being punished for insulting unicorns?'.
  
  The atheist British comedian, 59, has mocked the protesters who have gathered outside Batley Grammar School demanding the unnamed teacher is sacked for blasphemy, forcing the headteacher to keep 980 children at home.
  
  Mr Gervais, a well known defender of free speech also famed for his own outrageous and often offensive jokes, tweeted to his 14.5million followers: 'Blasphemy? F***ing Blasphemy? It's 2021 for f**k's sake. What next? People being punished for insulting unicorns?'.
  
  The creator of The Office, After Life and Extras, was backed by BBC broadcaster Nicky Campbell, who said Mr Gervais' tweet was about the 'lunacy of blasphemy', branding it a 'victimless crime' while rowing with a critic of the comedian. One commentator called Gervais' tweet: 'An insult to the Islamic community worldwide'.
  
  He is famed for being outspoken on Twitter, especially scathing remarks about religion, saying previously: 'Imagine if you carried on believing in Santa and the tooth fairy into adulthood. And even killed & started wars over it. Haha. Imagine that'. On another occasion he wrote: 'Everyone has the right to believe anything they want. And everyone else has the right to find it f***ing ridiculous'.
  
  Today it was revealed that a petition started by students of the teacher suspended by Batley Grammar School has been signed by thousands of people - at a rate of one per second - as it was revealed he was forced to flee his home because of death threats.
• The 'burly Yorkshire lad' in his 20s, who has not been named, is getting support from police after he allegedly showed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad as the headteacher today kept 980 children at home after 50 Muslim protesters from outside the area turned up for a second day.
  
  
  
  +23
  Mr Gervais was accused by critics of insulting Muslims around the globe
  
  Mohammed Hussain of the 'Purpose of Life' charity, which published the teacher's identity online, said he condemned violence in the name of Islam.
  
  He said he had to speak out after being asked by a radio interviewer several times whether he condoned beheadings and apparently failing to condemn them.
  
  He told Mail Online: 'I was shocked and upset at the questions. I couldn't understand why I was being asked about beheadings.
  
  'I was trying to say that I was against beheadings and that the Prophet said that if you were to kill one innocent person you were killing Mankind. I am against any type of violence in the name of Islam and do not support the beheadings that have taken place.'
  
  Some of his students have launched a petition trying to save his job, which has been signed by more than 8,500 people.
  
  People who backed the campaign to save his job have described him as a 'good man' and a 'diligent teacher' who is 'respectful of all religions'. Others said the school must stand by him, insisting he was being 'bullied out' by 'radicals'.
  
  One Muslim parent signed the petition, named Mohammed J, wrote: 'I would like to convey my support for the school and also the teacher concerned. He has taught my daughter and she speaks very highly of him. I would not hesitate to see him teach her again. I am confident that the teacher concerned did not mean any offence and I hope following an investigation he returns to his role at the school.'
  
  Another signatory said: 'He is loved by many students. Muslim and non Muslim. Batley Grammar stand up for one of your own. Don't lose a good teacher'.
  
  Protesters managed to close the school today but none of the demonstrators MailOnline spoke to this morning were parents of children there, and had travelled to Batley from Dewsbury, Bradford and Leeds to join a smaller group of locals social media and WhatsApp groups. Many have pledged to protest there every day until he is sacked.
  
  Education secretary Gavin Williamson has condemned the protests and said schools must be free to show 'challenging or controversial' materials in class. Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick said it was 'very disturbing'that the teacher has been forced into hiding.
  
  The amateur rugby player, trained to teach in the mid-2010s after going to university in the north of England, and now lives in the area close to his West Yorkshire school with his partner. Recently he described his love of his job and helping educate young people from his area.
  
  His neighbour, who is concerned for her own safety after protesters published his name online, has told MailOnline that he left his home at 9.30am yesterday and was rushed into a black vehicle. It is not known if it was an unmarked police car.
  
  She added: 'I saw him and his family leaving in a rush yesterday. They got into a black car. A car which belongs to them is still at the front. They seemed in a hurry and they haven't come back last night and are not here today. I have phoned the police myself because I am worried in case there is any trouble as I live above them and I have got a baby. I can't go and stay with my parents because of Covid.'
  
  The row of the teacher's RE lesson continues as:
• Ministers speak out to defend 'free speech' and demand people protesting outside the school must go home and let the school and council investigate;
• Protesters say they will come every day and have done nothing wrong by naming the teacher online, claiming if he had upset the LGBT or Jewish communities he would have already been sacked;
• Neighbours described a 'kind' and 'smiling' teacher who loved his job and saw helping students as his vocation;
• Pupils launch petition to save his job, which has also been backed by some Muslim parents whose children were taught by him;
• much more at this link - Ricky Gervais ridicules parents protesting against teacher who 'showed Prophet Muhammad cartoon' | Daily Mail Online