Canada to decriminalize hard drugs in pilot study

[Somatek]

https://www.wnd.com/2022/06/drug-overdoses-spike-700-state-decriminalizes-drugs/

Drug overdoses spike 700% after state decriminalizes drugs

Officials admit failure of promised treatment-center alternative

That just shows that decriminalization without proper support doesn't work, from that article;
"Allen said his staff was "under-resourced to be able to support this effort" and they "underestimated the work that was involved in supporting something that looked like this, and partly we didn't fully understand it until we were in the middle of it."

BC already has safe injection sites and announced previously they'd be studying a program where addicts are provided a clean supply, both key parts of harm reduction programs treating addiction as a health issue not a criminal one. Personally I'd rather see more invested in health care over bigger police budgets when prohibition has never worked and only creates a revenue stream for criminals.

 

[exploziv]

It's nice they try to help. It's sad it didn't happened before it got to be a problem. Also sad they help them because they become a public nuisance, and not because they are people that need help!
I bet some of the addicts can recover and be a better human than some of the leaders and decission makers this world has and trusts. We all have our problems, and we all playing with something to make it better.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I can see this is another subject best left to those who mostly do not traffic this site. Lol Stoner science and misguided "addiction" preaching is too strong here. Said my piece, those with enough will see it as enough. Unwatching this thread.

 

[nono_fr]

There is an article on drug's decriminalization in Portugal but without recent statistics : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Observations

There is little reliable information about drug use, injecting behaviour or addiction treatment in Portugal before 2001, when general population surveys commenced. Until then, there were the indicators on lifetime prevalence amongst youth, collected as part of the European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs (ESPAD), and some other (less reliable) data available through the EMCDDA.[16]

Thorough studies on how the various efforts have been implemented were not conducted. Thus, a causal effect between strategy efforts and these developments cannot be firmly established.[10] There are, however, statistical indicators that suggest the following correlations between the drug strategy and the following developments, from July 2001 up to 2007:

• Increased uptake of treatment (roughly 60% increase as of 2012.)[10]
• Reduction in new HIV diagnoses amongst drug users by 17%[17] and a general drop of 90% in drug-related HIV infection.
• In April 2009, the Cato Institute published a White Paper about the "decriminalization" of drugs in Portugal,[18] paid for by the Marijuana Policy Project.[19] Data about the heroin usage rates of 13-16-year-olds from EMCDDA were used in the report to claim that "decriminalization" has had no adverse effect on drug usage rates and that drug-related pathologies - such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage - had decreased dramatically.[18]
• The number of newly diagnosed HIV cases among drug users was 13.4 cases per million in 2009 which is high above the European average of 2.85 cases per million.[2][20][21]
• The number of drug related deaths has reduced from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008.[22] As of 2012, Portugal's drug death toll sat at 3 per million, in comparison to the EU average of 17.3 per million, as one of the lowest drug-related death rates in the EU.[22] This reduction has decreased in later years. The number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the drug strategy was implemented.[10][17] However, this may be accounted for by improvement in measurement practices, which includes a doubling of toxicological autopsies now being performed, meaning that more drugs related deaths are likely to be recorded.[23]
• Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%[17] It has been proposed that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use.[23] However, during the same period, the use of heroin and cannabis also increased in Spain and Italy, where drugs for personal use were decriminalised many years earlier than in Portugal [23][24] while the use of Cannabis and heroin decreased in the rest of Western Europe.[25][26] The increase in drug use observed among adults in Portugal was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug laws.[27]
• Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined.[23]
• Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased.[23]
• Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly.[citation needed]

 

[Montuno]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.adicciones.es/index.php/adicciones/article/download/832/796&ved=2ahUKEwjIqsbezJP5AhW6iP0HHTkzDjsQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0w5bnuIXKn8fkDuhpIedL6

Here, access to methadone treatment was a very important weapon in the fight to recover addicts decades ago, mainly heroin addicts, although there is also a case reported in the small document with fentanyl, I think?

 

[Rider420]

Its the end of the world Canada has legalized cannabis!!!
Oh wait that happened four years ago.
Its the end of the world Canada is decriminalizing most drugs.

Lets get real 7 million people die for tobacco 3 million from aclohol per year while illicit drugs only kill 500,000 per year with the majority being caused by a toxic supply. So why are the more harmful drugs legal and less harmful ones not? The drug war!

You got to hate NARCS even the ones who smoke cannabis, drink aclohol, smoke tobacco or have a coffee every morning who think they are not addicts but all opioid users are. Just another escape goat for the delusional ego.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

The point is not that Canada has legalized cannabis. The thread is about a pilot program to decriminalize hard drug use.

Soft drugs have been distanced from hard drugs in enlightened society.

Cannabis is legal and being taxed now.

Hence it is no longer part of the war on drugs.

Junkies don't advertise an image of being as much of a functional part of society as pot heads seem to. Opioids are considered a hard drug.

Much of what is abused comes from formerly legitimate channels so they get taxed and are still a focus of the war on drugs.

An individual who enjoys a cup of coffee isn't easily comparable to a meth addict that just shot up.

Soft drug users generally have a functional life and contribute positively to society.

Hard drug users generally have no idea what a functional life or societal contribution have to do with getting high.

It's pretty easy to see what which drugs do what which kind of damage after a time.

 

[moose eater]

Not all provinces will enact the decriminalization approach. BC has been dealing with high overdose deaths. It's about time it is looked through the lens of a health issue. When people are with others that OD, they are reluctant to call for help due to potential arrest. I know too much about this as I am in the Emergency services field.

If you have ever been to East Hasting Street in downtown Vancouver, you will know why this announcement was done. It has been brutal for at least 35 years.

Or the ferry dock/hotel area in Victoria. 30 years ago there were rows of strung-out folks sitting along the sidewalks there.

The Portugese program has worked well.

And the dealers don't fare all that well in the Portugese-style medicalization/decriminalization. The dealers are that much more in the cross-hairs. The cops are simply not screwing around with addicts and users anymore, other than to offer them an assessment via a local social services panel to see if they think they have a problem with substances, and, if so, do they think they would like someone to try and help them with that problem.

Another poster's contention that the illegality of some of these drugs doesn't stop folks from signing up for help. But the reality, after 100+ years of counter-productive and totally unnecessary drug war-isms and mania, is that these folks have all been on a proverbial menu for the fascist nanny state since the early 1900's, and that takes a toll over time on folks' willingness or ability to become candid with others they don't know, sometimes regardless of what is being offered.

 

[Maple_Flail]

gray/black market cannabis still exists.. anyone who says the war is over for cannabis is kinda deluded. less established MOMs are constantly being taken out/down. OPs are still being raided.

well back on topic. so far i like this pilot program, (caveat, I'm not there) i'm curious to see the long term results and hope the program lasts long enough to get that data. my worry is that the framework isn't granular enough tracking what comes in and is used etc etc etc.

but I agree even in Meth ridden Ontario something needs to be done. this will hopefully give the suits the info to do something compassionate out here to curb the issues

 

[Rider420]

Soft drugs have been distanced from hard drugs in enlightened society.

It's pretty easy to see what which drugs do what which kind of damage after a time.

Your right it is easy to see which drugs do the most harm 7 Million die from tobacco each year 3 Million from aclohol and less then half a million from all illicit drugs together and most of those deaths are from a toxic supply caused by prohibition which is what your defending. I'm old enough to remember when the bums downtown were just alcoholics, the drugs may have changed buts its the same people.

FYI In some people's opinion the HARD drug Cannabis is now legal in Canada and soon MDMA and other "HARD" drugs will be decriminalized in BC.

BTW your view of an enlightened society scares me why don't you spell out all the people and things you hate that would not exist in an enlightened society for us buddy? You know all the things other people do that you don't.

Same old NARC chain smoking tobacco while telling the world addicts should be locked up becuase thier stupid and dangerous. At least he was right in his case!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I didn't realize that looking at the difference between hard and soft drugs would be so upsetting.

I didn't mean to scare anyone.

I am going to get to work researching robberies, home invasions, and violent crime that have been linked to tobacco addiction.

 

[Somatek]

The point is not that Canada has legalized cannabis. The thread is about a pilot program to decriminalize hard drug use.

Soft drugs have been distanced from hard drugs in enlightened society.

Cannabis is legal and being taxed now.

Hence it is no longer part of the war on drugs.

Junkies don't advertise an image of being as much of a functional part of society as pot heads seem to. Opioids are considered a hard drug.

Much of what is abused comes from formerly legitimate channels so they get taxed and are still a focus of the war on drugs.

An individual who enjoys a cup of coffee isn't easily comparable to a meth addict that just shot up.

Soft drug users generally have a functional life and contribute positively to society.

Hard drug users generally have no idea what a functional life or societal contribution have to do with getting high.

It's pretty easy to see what which drugs do what which kind of damage after a time.

Do we actually know the ratio of functional vs non-functional "hard" drug users or are we basing opinions off the visible minority of addicts on the street which would be as logical as basing our alcohol regulations on alcoholics, not the majority who use it responsibly.

Which is why I support legalization and harm reduction over a perpetuation of criminalizing drugs which just creates a revenue stream for criminal organizations, puts users at risk by eliminating the possibility for any controls and creates barriers to addicts getting help by marginalizing them.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I support legalization.

I also see the difference between cannabis and heroin.

Coffee is not cocaine.

 

[nono_fr]

Paris Has a Serious Crack Problem, and It’s Spiraling out of Control -> https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3x...ack-problem-and-its-spiralling-out-of-control​

“The French political response to crack use is too focused on criminalisation and user eviction,” says Jauffret-Roustide. “There is a lack of public funding in social inclusion programs such as housing. It’s a paradox because France is one of the few countries that has invested a lot in drug-related healthcare but at the same time it criminalises drug use in a way that impedes access to care.”
***
“In Paris there is just one, but countries like Germany, the Netherlands and Switzerland offer many more facilities per capita,” says Gaia’s director Avril, whose charity runs the shooting room in Paris. “Zurich, for example, has four such spaces over a much smaller population. But nobody wants to open another in Paris. Politicians won’t support it.”
***
“Charities do great work, they do what they can,” says Jonathan. “But the police repression, I think it’s a load of shit. I know it’s difficult to stop dealers, but they shouldn’t attack users. We are victims as much as anyone else in this.”

 

[RobFromTX]

I support the legalization of everything. Heroin, cocaine. Life is hard and everyone needs a crutch. Most addicts are harmless anyway

Paris Has a Serious Crack Problem, and It’s Spiraling out of Control -> https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3x...ack-problem-and-its-spiralling-out-of-control​

a crack epidemic in France . i never would have imagined

 

[Rider420]

All illicit drug use has increased under the drug war prohibition. The only drug that people including myself use less or not at all is legal tobacco. It reached a peak of 45 percent in 1954 and despite the federal government issuing reports about the health hazards caused by smoking in the 1960s, it was still 43 percent in 1972. Progress was made in the late 1970s with the smoking rate falling to 36 percent in 1977. The percentage of Americans who smoke cigarettes stands near its lowest point on record, a new Gallup survey found. The poll found that 16% of American adults reported smoking any cigarettes in the past week. Aug 12, 2021.
Overall in 2021, only 10% of Canadians reported smoking cigarettes on a regular basis. Overall, 17% of Canadians age 16 years and older reported using cannabis in the past 30 days.

Proving that prohibition does not work and leads to more deaths due to toxic illicit drugs, it's honest education on the relative dangers of different drugs that reduces the number of people using more harmful drugs like tobacco or opioids!

 

[Rider420]

I didn't realize that looking at the difference between hard and soft drugs would be so upsetting.

I didn't mean to scare anyone.

I am going to get to work researching robberies, home invasions, and violent crime that have been linked to tobacco addiction.

More People Were Arrested For Cannabis Last Year Than For All Violent Crimes Put Together, According To FBI Data​

More People Were Arrested For Cannabis Last Year Than For All Violent Crimes Put Together, According To FBI Data

According to the recently released Uniform Crime Report from the FBI, more people were arrested for cannabis in 2019 than for all violent crimes put together.

www.forbes.com

But cannabis is legal right? LOL According to narcs cannabis is the gateway to addictive drugs and must be stopped!

 

[Maple_Flail]

I didn't realize that looking at the difference between hard and soft drugs would be so upsetting.

I didn't mean to scare anyone.

I am going to get to work researching robberies, home invasions, and violent crime that have been linked to tobacco addiction.

Bring Hard drugs up and someone will have an extreme opinion, not much different than some of yours to be fair. Peoples lives have been ripped apart by the collateral damage of the issue, so it is a catalyzing topic, not as bad as politics but not far off.

You'd also be surprised what is used in "enlightened societies" ...

Have you ever seen the movie, 'The Wolf of Wall Street'? yes it is quite a dramatization and in some people it might be pretty accurate.. There are users for EVERYTHING in EVERY walk of life, the better part can hold their own and go about their day to day without most ever having a suspicion.

although I'm sure you were being sarcastic with the bolded comment, but you'd likely be surprised by the results. Addicts are addicts

there is quite the world around you if you just fully open your eyes

More People Were Arrested For Cannabis Last Year Than For All Violent Crimes Put Together, According To FBI Data​

More People Were Arrested For Cannabis Last Year Than For All Violent Crimes Put Together, According To FBI Data

According to the recently released Uniform Crime Report from the FBI, more people were arrested for cannabis in 2019 than for all violent crimes put together.

www.forbes.com

But cannabis is legal right? LOL According to narcs cannabis is the gateway to addictive drugs and must be stopped!

Talking about a Canadian pilot program in BC for hard drugs, Cannabis IS legal in Canada and several other countries.

 

[RobFromTX]

More People Were Arrested For Cannabis Last Year Than For All Violent Crimes Put Together, According To FBI Data​

More People Were Arrested For Cannabis Last Year Than For All Violent Crimes Put Together, According To FBI Data

According to the recently released Uniform Crime Report from the FBI, more people were arrested for cannabis in 2019 than for all violent crimes put together.

www.forbes.com

But cannabis is legal right? LOL According to narcs cannabis is the gateway to addictive drugs and must be stopped!

First thing they should do after legalization is remove marijuana offenses from your record. I still cant believe i did a year of probation for two roaches

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Retroactive pardons, industrial hemp, and provision for home cultivation should be mandatory for states seeking the tax money from legal sales.

I don't want people to be locked up for any drug.

I don't want people dying from overdoses or cartel killings.

I think legalized drugs are a good idea but I added that there are plenty of other facets to consider.

I'm also not on the board of society at large... I was just speaking from a perspective of an asshole that is addicted to plenty of things.

My initial point in the thread was about circumventing the cartel importation of cocaine... I'm not trying to stop anyone from having a good time. I just want to see people consider the big picture and the other side of what you think you are perceiving.

But I realize that either I or my intention have been misunderstood.

I've kind of grown accustomed to that.