Canada Mulls Mandatory Minimum Sentences for Grows

[Skip]

Bill C-15, now before the Canadian Senate, includes mandatory minimum sentences for a range of drug offenses. Included in this bill is an exemption from mandatory minimum sentences for grows under 200 plants. The police aren't too happy about any exemption for illegal grows.

The bill amends the existing Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, and introduces a number of minimums and is meant for “serious drug offences.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...op-vancouver-police-speak-out/article1393601/

 

[ButteredIt]

well. looks like i don't have to go running back to the states after all. woohooooo!

god i hate mandatory minimums. fuck privatized prisons.

 

[bengie187]

I guess i shouldnt be planning on anything bigger than 4 plants now......damned BS canadian politicains and the judicial system having all the say....i dont see any quotes from "regular" people without a "title" persay but who are you gonna believe "the taskforce minister of propaganda of Vancouver gang unit." Dr. J. Groebbels, Hermann Goehieng....i dunno just ranting

 

[fatigues]

The article is inaccurate. Bill C-15 STILL contains a provision which imposes a NINE month minimum sentence for growing a SINGLE plant, and the purpose is trafficking and:

(a) the property used to commit the offence is rented or otherwise owned by a third party; or
(b) the grow op presents a security, health or safety hazard to minors who are present or near the property used for the grow-op; or
(c) the property is located in a residential area and presents a potential public safety hazard; or
(d) there is a trap present on the property;

Worse, by an error in drafting the Bill further contain a provision where growing a SINGLE SEED (and the purpose is trafficking) imposes a mandatroy minimum of 12 months.

If any of the factors noted above in (a) through (d) are present? It's a minimum of EIGHTEEN months in jail.

How does this happen in Canada? Read the article for yourself. It happens because the media is not reporting the provisions contained within Bill C-15 accurately.

Canadians have NO IDEA that Bill C1-15 allows this to happen:

Should a university student grow a single plant in a dorm room, apartment, or their parent's home, and share a joint with a friend, they are thereby guilty of production for the purpose of trafficking and are exposed to a NINE MONTH mandatory minimum sentence. There is no discretion available to a judge to relieve a student from this sentence under Bill C-15.

Should the same university student grow a viable marijuana seed under the same circumstances in their dorm room? Eighteen months, minimum mandatory sentence. A judge does not have the power to stop it under Bill C-15, either.

The media has been completely asleep at the switch. Marijuana activists in Canada have been asleep at the switch too. They publicized the 6-200 plant minimum, and got it removed - while leaving the ONE-PLANT-in-a-dorm-room provision.

It's insane.

 

[Skip]

The media isn't asleep. They've been bought off, just like in the USA. They get money for anti-drug commercials, anti-drug stories, anti-drug references in TV shows & movies.

They're probably getting paid-off to spin this Bill as something good and necessary for Canada...

Canadians! Don't want to be sentenced to a mandatory minimum for a plant? Then LEGALIZE IT!

 

[antimatter]

the prices better skyrocket, we gotta get something in return for this bullshit.

 

[sob420]

How can they prove you had the intent to traffic if you only have one plant? Seems silly. Seems like with a jury of honest citizens one could easily avoid such a minimum for one plant. Either way it's garbage of Canada to start regressing all of a sudden.

 

[Green Supreme]

Every time Canada has tried to deal with Cannabis the US comes in and puts its foot down, now ya blame us for it. Funny shit man. Peace GS

 

[fatigues]

How can they prove you had the intent to traffic if you only have one plant? Seems silly. Seems like with a jury of honest citizens one could easily avoid such a minimum for one plant. Either way it's garbage of Canada to start regressing all of a sudden.

If you pass a joint to one person - you trafficked within the meaning of the CDSA. Sales may be difficult to prove - but sharing? Not as hard, no. Often, the accused will confess it to the cop after arrest, too. They don't understand that sharing or passing a joint is trafficking; most people just think trafficking = sales.

As for a jury - most cases like this will be tried by a single judge - not a jury.

Most accused will prefer to be tried by a lone judge and not a jury in these matters. It's cheaper and technical arguments carry more weight. Most importantly, the judge - unlike the jury - knows the consequences of a finding of guilt.

Juries are a staple of American courts. They are almost never used in Canadian civil cases - and are still the exception to the rule in most criminal cases in Canada too. The most serious of cases? Yes - you'll take a jury. In cases of murder - you have no choice - it must go to a jury.

But for a charge like this? Especially where the Crown throws in the "production of viable seed" charge? You'd have to be an IDIOT to take a jury, imo. The judge will be looking left, right and centre for a way to let you off as he or she knows the consequences of a finding of guilt. The jury won't know the mandatory penalty and can't be told under the law as to what the minimum mandatory penalty is, either.

There is not a single judge in Canada, anywhere, who is elected. They are not hang 'em high North of the border -- not in the least. Bill C-15 is about trying to get the judges' discretion OUT of the system. Trust me - most of the time - you want a judge.

 

[mr noodles]

im certainly concerned about the future of the canadian medicinal marijuana by health canada...the compassion center ect

im afraid the next torpedo is aiming in this direction but it will face a full force barrage by the population who is ok at 90 % when its for medecinal mj .

another thing, all of the sentence will end to be done in the provincial system ...i dont know for other province but mine is overpopulated to the point that almost everybody is out at the 1/6 because they need a rotation...i dont think the judge will go strong on this for the above reason $$$$$ the system cant take it period .

soon or later this will backfire in the face of the government because taxpayers who are already nailed under debt . the better priority will be a very but very strong argument .soon or later the oposition will be able to present statistics and the cost at the parliament . while that time gangs terrorize all canadian community

in order the conservative shoot themselves str8 in the foot . to bad they didnt aim at their respective head .

 

[antimatter]

Ive always wondered if this is somehow a secret agenda of the conservative parties economic plan, if they can drive the prices of drugs up that means more $$$ for Canadians from our wealthy Americans across the border, with the new HST this could be a good combination for bringing in more tax dollars.

 

[pipeline]

thats some bullshit oh my goodness! They were about to LEGALIZE the crop just a few years ago! You would have figured with a hemp industry, the government would catch onto the will of GOD as well as the people....

WHAT THE FUCK?....

http://www.cfdp.ca/general4.htm#walters

 

[fatigues]

Good news! (well - good as can be expected in the circumstances)

The Full Senate has accepted the proposed amendments to Bill C- 15 Vote 49-43

The bill will now go to Third Reading in the Senate and then will be forwarded back to the House of Commons.

This one ain't over yet; the Fat Lady has not yet sung.

There is the possibility of more delay, a non-confidence vote (remote as can be at this stage) and further amendments in the House of Commons.

We need to get the word out to the Press. Desperately.

The Tory Spin Machine will be all over this one.

 

[J. Greenstein]

The article is inaccurate. Bill C-15 STILL contains a provision which imposes a NINE month minimum sentence for growing a SINGLE plant, and the purpose is trafficking and:

(a) the property used to commit the offence is rented or otherwise owned by a third party; or
(b) the grow op presents a security, health or safety hazard to minors who are present or near the property used for the grow-op; or
(c) the property is located in a residential area and presents a potential public safety hazard; or
(d) there is a trap present on the property;

Worse, by an error in drafting the Bill further contain a provision where growing a SINGLE SEED (and the purpose is trafficking) imposes a mandatroy minimum of 12 months.

If any of the factors noted above in (a) through (d) are present? It's a minimum of EIGHTEEN months in jail.

How does this happen in Canada? Read the article for yourself. It happens because the media is not reporting the provisions contained within Bill C-15 accurately.

Canadians have NO IDEA that Bill C1-15 allows this to happen:

Should a university student grow a single plant in a dorm room, apartment, or their parent's home, and share a joint with a friend, they are thereby guilty of production for the purpose of trafficking and are exposed to a NINE MONTH mandatory minimum sentence. There is no discretion available to a judge to relieve a student from this sentence under Bill C-15.

Should the same university student grow a viable marijuana seed under the same circumstances in their dorm room? Eighteen months, minimum mandatory sentence. A judge does not have the power to stop it under Bill C-15, either.

The media has been completely asleep at the switch. Marijuana activists in Canada have been asleep at the switch too. They publicized the 6-200 plant minimum, and got it removed - while leaving the ONE-PLANT-in-a-dorm-room provision.

It's insane.

Can you clarify a couple points for me (again) bro?

c)the property is located in a residential area and presents a potential public safety hazard.

This one seems kinda vague to me...they could call any grow a potential fire hazard no??


Also what is the distinction about a student growing a viable marijuana seed vs growing a single plant? Are they saying that sprouting a seed is 18 months vs growing a clone is 9 months? At
what point is that viable seed a plant? So the penalty is greater on a sprouted seed over a 2lb tree? Kinda bizarre considering Canada has had seed shops out in the open for years.

 

[fatigues]

I got a ton of work to do tonight - I'll get to those questions tomorrow J.G.

Short strokes: potential public safety hazard? Hella-vague. Nobody knows what it really means. It will be a battle ground.

On the seed issue - it's covered here.

A seed stops being a seed when it germinates and sprouts a tap root. At that point - it's probably no longer a seed and becomes a "plant". That is certainly so it if is put in soil or a RR pellet, etc.

I don't mean growing FROM a seed, I mean growing a viable seed wit hthe purpose of trafficking in it.

If you used a colloidal silver generator, pollenated seeds for the purpose of sending the fem seeds to Gypsy to give away on Seedbay? That would certainly do it. Eighteen months minimum mandatory sentence if you did that in rented premises, for example.(Twelve months without the aggravating factors).

Short strokes: Growing seeds to give away carries a higher minimum mandatory sentence than growing bud to sell under C-15. It's not really an intentional aspect of the Bill - it arises because of the way the Bill is drafted. I've posted on it elsewhere here on ICM that explains how that arises in Bill C-15. It's not deliberate (I don't think) - but it's still the way the Bill works and it is, regrettably, the law if Bill C-15 ultimately passes.

Who knows? Maybe Iggy will find a spine and refuse to support the Bill any further. If the Liberals say "no" to any further support for Bill C-15 in the House, the Bill dies.

Wouldn't count on it - but hope springs eternal.

 

[mr noodles]

Good news! (well - good as can be expected in the circumstances)

The Full Senate has accepted the proposed amendments to Bill C- 15 Vote 49-43

The bill will now go to Third Reading in the Senate and then will be forwarded back to the House of Commons.

This one ain't over yet; the Fat Lady has not yet sung.

There is the possibility of more delay, a non-confidence vote (remote as can be at this stage) and further amendments in the House of Commons.

We need to get the word out to the Press. Desperately.

The Tory Spin Machine will be all over this one.

lets hope the conservative get very piss off and decide to sink it themselves to protest the amendments . they dont like bastardization of their law or another option will be more amendments like you said .everything to get more time will be good at this point .

the shit start to hit the fan badly for the conservative in the afghan prisoners .. recently harper looked like a buffon in china .

 

[J. Greenstein]

Thanks again Fatigues.

 

[mr noodles]

Senate votes to remove mandatory minimum sentences from Tory pot law

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...mandatory-minimum-sentences-from-tory-pot-law

OTTAWA – The Senate has voted in favour of changing a Conservative crime bill that would have imposed a mandatory six-month minimum sentence on people convicted of growing as few as five pot plants.

By a vote of 49-44, the Liberal-dominated upper chamber agreed to amend Bill C-15 to give judges greater discretion in sentencing convictions for growing between five and 200 plants.

The amendments also provide aboriginal convicts with an exemption from the minimum sentences, require judges to explain why they are not imposing the suggested minimums, and add in a cost-benefit review of how the legislation is working after five years.

However, mandatory minimum sentences of nine months still remain in place if there are aggravating factors to the marijuana grow-op, such as endangering the health of a child or creating a public safety hazard.

The Conservative government has sharply criticized the Senate for tinkering with legislation that has already been passed by the elected House of Commons.

It is not clear what will become of the changes when the amended bill is sent back to the Commons, where it must again be ratified before it can become law.



the coservative are not happy at all about that ! lets hope they dont want their bill that way to the point of killing it .

this will probably get back to the common in a tsunami of shit , just hope it get jammed for a while

 

[habeeb]

let them..

once your jails fill up with non-violent criminals and then they see they have no room for violent people who belong in jails, then they will change.

change does not come automatic, and looks like you guys are up to swing..

 

[Chamba]

mandatory minimums!

how long will be before tons of bud from the USA is exported to Canada?

btw is hash mentioned in this new bill?