Can you over-water Coco?

[hilbie]

here it is explained= if your plants arent rooted u can overwater very easily
this can happen with a young sprout in a big pot with just one watering to many=stagnant growth, limp stem, weeping leaves.

if your plants rooted from either being in a small cup watered alot or a big container kept just wet/moist/dry enough for it to root then u can put it in a bigger container and usually after a few days you can proceed to water as u will with out to much worry of over watering, its the intitial rootings were u either must be in a small pot so that even if u water twice a day it dries out some in between or in something large that u must treat like soil for a week or more untill roots are established. thats it-

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

here it is explained= if your plants arent rooted u can overwater very easily
this can happen with a young sprout in a big pot with just one watering to many=stagnant growth, limp stem, weeping leaves.
-

and you can fix it by watering more often...
Overwatering is a bullshit concept... Improper watering causes stagnation and under-oxygenation... INCREASING the frequency of watering solves this problem completely...

If there was really any such thing as too much water, then Deep Water Culture would not work.... The problem that you remain so confused about is lack of oxygen, which is solved by increasing the watering frequency...

It's so simple, and I have proved it to work over and over and over in my garden...

The only way to overwater coco is by not watering it enough...

I'm not going to argue this anymore, since I have done the experimentation and proved it to myself beyond doubt... Learn from my experience or not I don't care...

 

[hilbie]

water carries emotion, both good and bad, know wonder your so passionite you water everything u see all day, good luck with that, but my plants are only responding to my letting them dry off a little with new growth and perky leaves, u keep forgeting that drying=oxygen as well, and even if coco fully wet is fourty percent air coco half dry is even more is it not, and after u pull in some air with your watering and the plant eats it, it also then is sufficated by the remaining water which must dry a little, or like u we could just re water for another hit of air to then following that fresh gulp be once again suffecated by damp wet coco, this point im making is once again for the 13th time about container size, too much coco early on before plants are rooted thats kept constantly wet is a no no-


and even if its not, which it is, why are u so passonite about re watering to get some air? let it go, your talking about water mate, just water- why over water a large container that doesnt need it to prove a point, whats your point? the first weeks of a plants life in coco run little risk for chem burns from minimal salt build up and live largely on water n air, alot of people are over watering and over feeding and this water water mentality causes alot of problems -

 

[hilbie]

bump

 

[justa waterboy]

Did sombody mention H2O, how abought a thred on watering ? Sometimes the simplest things can make the biggest differance.

 

[DHF]

What Head`s failed ta tell ya`ll for some reason or another is that the HOW you can overwater coco is due to the many textures and density`s of said substrate cuz believe me there`s no consistency across the board as far as what each manufacturer/distributor will give you from pkg to pkg , bale to bale , or cleaned, fluffy , pre-charged and buffered expensive product that only fills X amount of containers versus the unwashed shit that blows up and fills buncha buckets but hasta be washed and re-washed to grab the right ph and ppm parameters for a plant to survive and thrive in........Been there done that.........

There`s coffee grounds mushy bullshit coco from cheap products , and then there`s wirey , fibrous , aerated type coco that works well the way Head`s explaining his method of madness and then there`s husks/chunks for even more aerated rootzones but salt content comes along with bigger chunks..........

No disrespect intended Head cuz once dialed your shit rocks but it`s not that way with every setup.........sorry......

Mojo started most of this coco section when it was added as a category and He and an old Krusty bucket Bro schooled me on this tricky shit and believe me no matter what ANYONE says..........There ARE no absolutes until you dial the type coco you`re using cuz there`s no consistency across the board period till you dial the shit you`re using repeatedly...........

Mojo runs juice through his rootzones on timed feeds all day lights on in a recirculating setup that not many folks have dialed up till now.......

I chose DTW for dialed PH and ppm`s running through the medium with buncha runoff to keep things steady since I only went to my setups once a week......

ALL this shit comes outta Sri Lanka from one source or another and it`s salt content along with the manufacturing breakdown process of making this shit into it`s different sizes , shapes and consistencies is a crap shoot at best unless you buy the expensive pre-bagged , pre-washed , pre-charged , pretty shit........

All the compressed products are questionable for quality and consistency so caveat emptor/let the buyer beware from what I`ve dealt with but your mileage may vary......

I`m pretty sure like Mojo that Head`s usin the good stuff and has excellent porosity in his medium for O2 consumption with elevated feeds thru out the grow cycle cuz wet mushy ass coffee grounds consistency coco will kill your plants unless your rootzone drys out between feeds without a doubt..........

A lotta folks don`t realize those medium consistencies exist in plant containers but I wanna assure EVERYONE that I`ve seen whole buncha plants DROWN in coco just like I saw em drop like flies with DWC growers back in that setup`s early development in the OG/CW days.......

It`s a dialage thing with the proper consistency that`ll work for each individual`s particular setup depending on how much light/heat happens during a lights on cycle to facilitate a wet/dry thing for root expansion and explosive growth from what I`ve witnessed for a few yrs runnin this crazy ass shit that no 2 bags will be the same ppm OR PH level once hydrated and pre-juiced to setup a buncha pots with pre-vegged plants ready ta take off...........

Using coco specific nutes will help but cost more than regular regimens....

Make sure you keep a check on your runoff ppm`s and ph wise with coco or you`ll develop hiccups guaranteed.......

Ya`ll take care...DHF.....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

when I have been unlucky enough to get finely ground coco, I have solved any issues by floating the good coco out...

I fill a tub with clean water, put the coco in...
Bigger lighter more porous pieces and fibers will float...
Heavier finer mud making pieces sink...

I skim the usable coco from the top and toss the coco dust mud making crap...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

One brand I had left about three handfuls of red clay mud in the bottom of the tote I washed it in...

I should have mentioned that here, I followed a discussion I was having in my coco thread with hilbie over here, and responded to him specifically... In my thread the quality of the coco was discussed, and I jumped threads without considering the fact that I was jumping threads...

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Someone mentioned keg cups being too big to start seeds in, I agree! I've found my favorite way is to start them in starter cells full of coco. They'll fill that thing with roots pretty quick, and by that time they're big enough to handle the keg cup.


And my opinion: No, you can't over water coco once the roots have spread throughout the entire container.

Can someone clarify the pros and cons of the different grades of coco? I've only had experience with GH's Fine Coco Bricks. I feel like adding perlite, or having larger chunks of material instead of just a fine mix would just take room away from what the roots could be occupying.

 

[dunkybones]

It is hard to over water coco once roots are established, but that doesn't mean you then need to water them all the time. Letting the medium get a little dry between feedings, or at least once in a while, keeps the algae and fungus gnats at bay. Coco holds so much water, that even when you think it's dry it's not. Totally dry coco is practically weightless, like pearlite or styrofoam. Even when I've missed a bum dripper, the plants themselves do fine, unless i've been so blind that they've started to wilt.

Without root mass, it's easy to overwater, kind of hard not to. Getting my cuttings started in coco is always touch and go, I should really start them in smaller pots.

 

[jackiee]

over water or under water ? just water correctly watch your plants grow they will let you know if your giving them to little or to much imo. stay lucky

 

[Lazyman]

In my experience yes, I have had overwatered plants in coco. Droopy, wilted leaves, etc... THey were happier when I let them dry out more between waterings. However I think that is more a problem with coco's ion exchange, and most notably the initial nute lockups that seemed to happen to my coco grows. I had plants that were underfed/overwatered, even with 1800ppm of AN nutes (not organics) before I got color back into the foliage.

That was the reason I stopped using coco, the way it handles nutes when new is too rough on rooted clones, which is how I grow.

 

[Castelvetro]

super easy to overwater coco, when did everyone get this fear about coco drying out so fast an needing constand attention or the two to three to who knows 13 feedings salts would just reak so much havoc on the roots if the medium got partially dry? all hype and over worrying. run small containers for your coco if useing it straight, this way it dries out faster and can be rewatered. if your small plants in a big pot to start with u have to water only just enough like u would soil untill the plant metabolizes it and needs more as it reaches for the moisture. dont over water early plants, there just no reason, as alot of wet mush tends to accumulate just under the rootball of plants in pots to big for them that dont dry fast enough, thats why youll here people who start in something small like beer cups even like to use perlite initially, it helps with theese coco problems.

we need more specific threads on container size not so much water discussions for newbies to learn properly.

 

[turbolaser4528]

great thread, helped clear up misconceptions about coco a lot. not used to this sorta hydro sorta soil type medium, been overwatering rooted clones and seedlings and leafs are turning brown and wilting.


Once overwatered, how does one rememdy the situation? Just let it dry out for a few days? or repot in dry coco?

1-2 gallon pots have got to be way too big for seedling and small clones, if watered incorrectly as I have witnessed. When an established plant goes into the same size pot, its seems almost impossible to over water it and wilt the leaves. Coco is pretty interesting and unique like that, cant wait to run it in a KFB style setup ballllinnnnn lol

 

[Castelvetro]

its just like soil, it really is, soil grown with chems is just a hydro medium with shit air retention n drainage,as soil doesnt mean your plants are living of dirt unless your organic it just doenst.. think the same as u switch to coco, its like dirt with great air retention n great drainage. early on dont OVERWATER, my plants thrive as they when young and given a chance to dry out, amazing growth, overwater once and your wating days to see a change, this is early on, once u have good roots, water water water water, it brings in more air and plants will thank u for it.

coco is easy,if its hard your doing something wrong.

 

[turbolaser4528]

its just like soil, it really is, soil grown with chems is just a hydro medium with shit air retention n drainage,as soil doesnt mean your plants are living of dirt unless your organic it just doenst.. think the same as u switch to coco, its like dirt with great air retention n great drainage. early on dont OVERWATER, my plants thrive as they when young and given a chance to dry out, amazing growth, overwater once and your wating days to see a change, this is early on, once u have good roots, water water water water, it brings in more air and plants will thank u for it.

coco is easy,if its hard your doing something wrong.

when you put it that way its much easier to understand, thank you!

 

[Castelvetro]

my pleasure-

 

[kali]

nice thread and some good advise all around.

 

[SOG Gardner]

Great thread ! Answered alot of Q,s for me ...Thanks !

 

[fizzy187]

and you can fix it by watering more often...
Overwatering is a bullshit concept... Improper watering causes stagnation and under-oxygenation... INCREASING the frequency of watering solves this problem completely...

If there was really any such thing as too much water, then Deep Water Culture would not work.... The problem that you remain so confused about is lack of oxygen, which is solved by increasing the watering frequency...

It's so simple, and I have proved it to work over and over and over in my garden...

The only way to overwater coco is by not watering it enough...

I'm not going to argue this anymore, since I have done the experimentation and proved it to myself beyond doubt... Learn from my experience or not I don't care...

So suppose a wet dry cycle was watering once every other day.. And ideally you wanted to water once a day..

Watering once a day what if it caused salt buildups and other known issues,after increasing the frequency would that mean the EC should be dropped?


Suppose i was feeding 1.5ec (tap being 0.5ec) every other day. Going to once a day feeding at 1.5ec gives me too much clawed leafs, stunted growth and quality...(irepairable damage now done)

Does that mean im suposed to split my ec aswell so feeding .7ec every day instead of 1.5ec every other day.
Even going as far as deducting the tap of so 1.0ec every day instead of 1.5ec every other day?

And suppose that,even then it was causing oxygenated problems and increasing the frequency thereafter to two feeds a day (one every twelve hours) will this fix it or asking for trouble?


Thanks..i've recently been suffering from a whoel host of problems, overfeeding them early 12/12 proved one of them!




Also to fill the root zone up is it safe to say i dont need to pot up from cups to final pots just before 12/12 since that may have restricted the zone and added to my woes?

Im bottom feeding through ebb and flow (flood and drain) and i know most people use hydroton and feed 3 times or so a day...but i decided to go coco in ebb and flo...

Any advice would be appreciated

So far i've learned

1. dont pot up unless its early veg or doing a long veg
2. wet and dry cycle in coco works aswell as frequent watering. however depending on the frequency the coco is sueptible to major salt build ups.
3. flushing the coco once over can help with salt/lock out situations, so if feeding every other day (on a wet-dry cycle) that would be 3 feed's per week plus a flush on saturday for the 'fuck of it'