Can you grow with cold cathode computer lighting?

[ScrubNinja]

About the lumens, I did that "back in the day" when this was still new technology (heh) and I can't even remember the bulb I was looking at. So looking at some figures now that I know what the figures even partly mean. For the bulbs I have purchased:

Brightness : Over 18000 ± 3000 nt (cd/m2)

This converts to 1672 lumen/square foot/steradian. I don't know what a lumen/square foot/steradian is so I am still not particularly interested in that figure. Plus it's inaccurate right from the start because they measure the output in nits for a reason. It's a completely different way of looking at light output from what I understand. And I'll be honest, I hate when conversations turn to lumens. We have the potential there and that is enough for me to try it out.

Edit: Owl, I don't know how much you understand of lumens but comparing these to a hps (etc) lumens is irrelevant. A HPS puts out a lot of lumens but most of the are in wasted spectrums that plants don't use. So they are actually a very inefficient light in that regard. An led system, which we are basically cloning here, uses much, much less light and lumens, but we pick the colours carefully in accordance to what the plant needs. That is why people talk about LEDs being efficient.

 

[Owl Mirror]

Edit: Owl, I don't know how much you understand of lumens but comparing these to a hps (etc) lumens is irrelevant.

Actually I do not understand it all that well. Just what I read yet, I believe our goal should be in replicating the Sun's rays that strike the surface of the planet during the various growing cycles/seasons.

http://wps.prenhall.com/esm_lutgens_atmosphere_10/0,6615,3174913-,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight

 

[StealthDragon]

hehe I don't think I can beat that.

For my top lights I was planning on using the angle pieces from your light louver idea as long as I can find them narrow enough, I'm figuring around 1 cm. I'll have to wait till I get my bulbs in my hands before I'll know exactly what size I should use. If I cant find small enough angles like that I might use some pieces of fancy wood trim pieces I saw the other day at homedepot, they had a nice groove cut down the center and I think I could cover that groove with foil tape and put the bulbs directly against the foil/wood kind of along the idea of foil taping t-12's but I don't want to put the glue side of the foil tape on the bulbs, I think the glue would absorbs alot of light/heat...We'll see.

In my set up I can fit 2 rows of 4 plants. For the other bulbs I'll try to build a sort of "light wall" with the bulbs arranged horizontally between the 2 rows of plants..using mostly red at the bottom and blue towards the top.

bwhahhahaa! my brain is going a million miles an hour on this.

 

[vinnythebat]

scrub i just found these ccfl that supposedly run Brighter at 20,000 ± 10% cd/m2 but they only have red, uv and blue.

http://www.acryan.com/index.php?option=com_acryan_product&product_item=59&parent_id=18&Itemid=59

 

[vinnythebat]

nvm just got to the part that you mention them.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Nice thread. Really good idea about the lighted scrog screen, would love to see in action.

 

[Huggie bear]

Well Again I am not growing master as of yet but I can tell you from my other hobby that also looks for target light spectrums (Saltwater coral keeping)
That these lights are being used on pico tanks but the trend now is to replace these with LEDs as the LED has a much better penetration depth in water.

 

[ScrubNinja]

bwhahhahaa! my brain is going a million miles an hour on this.

Hehehe. Great ideas man. I was also thinking and my brother has a router so that would be good to make one out of wood. One idea I had (seems like you did too with your light wall) is to employ vertical techniques. Imagine we had a small square 1x1x1 space and wanted to grow 4 plants. Well if we divide the cab into two with a vertical wall of horizontal bulbs down the middle and grow 2 plants either side, we are using close enough to 100% of the bulb and light, without a reflector in sight. I'm going to stick with overhead lighting for now because I want to scrog. About the tape, I was thinking "wtf" a little too about the glue side of the tape on the glass. Hardly seems a reflective surface.

Disco, I'm not sure the scrog screen is a good idea as apparently the glass tube inside the plastic is fragile-ish so I'm playing that by ear at the mo'. Sure is an interesting idea though. Maybe a loosely structured screen without being tied together rock solid.

Thanks everyone for the input. Hope we can get some awesome pics soon enough.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Found these headlight kits on ebay - Xenon Angel Eye kits (8000k), this one is for a BMW. Unsure of the wattage but it's gotta be a bit, surely. More expensive, mind - $105aud inc shipping for the only one I've looked at. Pack includes:

• 4 x CCFL light tube rings
• 2 x ballast

Any rev heads know cheap sources for these suckaz? Or if ccfl headlights are standard for any cars? There are a lot of car wrecker shops here.

Keep it cold

 

[ScrubNinja]

I've taken the liberty of uploading some more pics from AlienBait's thread on MP.

I notice that he used two bulbs per inverter, so I'm doubtful he was getting full brightness. Glad I went for the singles.

Current thinking is to "HOG" the screen - bend it into a halfpipe as Cork144 is planning, and build a correspondingly shaped reflector so they fit together like a glove and I can raise and lower the lights. The following pic is by - ezra - to demonstrate.

Can't wait to have some great pics of my own to add.

 

[ScrubNinja]

I have a possible true stealth design worked out. I have my pick of a lot of cheap furniture and also all the stereo junk so I can get all that stuff very cheap/free. I would use a small nightstand or bedside chest of drawers. Check this out

Oh by the way, I realise now that my numbers were whacky on the 1gpw thing! He would need to grow 10 plants like that in the same space to achieve around about 1gpw, and that's not so easy I think. But regardless, with scrog/lst etc, plus the possible higher output on the bulbs, I think we can do respectably. I'm still aiming high!

 

[canna cola]

http://www.opticalres.com/lt/ltprodds_f.html

http://www.opticalres.com/student/student_license_f.html

Thanks for the links but I had already checked their website looking for demo versions.

Unfortunately I am not in the US (Aussie) and also am not a student so they would most likely tell me to take a hike.

The ScROG idea may be possible if you were to add another plastic tube around the CCFLs although that would reduce output.
You could try removing the existing plastic tube and replacing it with a stronger one to reduce the effect on output but I am guessing it will be too difficult.

As for the reflector, nice ideas, maybe there would be some decorative sheet metal that is a kind of miniature corrugated iron but made from aluminium that could be polished or just use the aluminium tape to make it more reflective (good if it is made from iron/steel or other less reflective metals).

Maybe there would be a plastic version of the mini corrugated iron that could be taped over.

Personally, I prefer mirrors.

I have some CCFL inverters somewhere that are made for 2 tubes but I might just stick with LEDs for my design.

 

[LacyLePlante]

i just dont think its the right spectrum, and not nearly enough lumens, you would be better off with a reptile bulb!

 

[ScrubNinja]

The knights who say nay

The knights who say nay

i just dont think its the right spectrum, and not nearly enough lumens, you would be better off with a reptile bulb!

You know, you're right! I didn't give any of that the slightest thought I should have researched it better! Can we contact a mod about getting all these useless graphs and spectrum shit removed?

*facepalm*

From Owl Mirror earlier in this thread...

From what I understand, Marijuana plants need a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft to even grow.
A level of 10,000 lumens per sq ft is more appropriate for any worthwhile results

From me, earlier, yup, in this thread...(this page, even!!!)

Brightness : Over 18000 ± 3000 nt (cd/m2)

This converts to 1672 lumen/square foot/steradian.

So, that is as close as we can really get to a lumen figure from the official specs. That is for one bulb. You may or may not have twigged to the fact that I plan to use more than one bulb. Do you see where I am going with this? If I've missed something then please explain your issue with some facts. I intend to counter them with pictures of marijuana growing under cold cathode lighting, just letting you know.

Canna, if you have a Bunnings nearby, or probably similar stores, you can buy big sheets of real dimpled reflector material. If you have some solid well cut bits of hardwood and a rubber mallet or similar, you can achieve pretty good crisp bends. I have a large sheet and may use some for this project.

Do you use LEDs at the moment or just planning to? About the mirrors, I'm not sure if LED light behaves differently or something, but with any regular type of growlight at least, mirrors eat light. You will get less light than any other common reflector material (mylar, panda, flat white paint, even alfoil). Well, that is what I believe anyway. You seem pretty clued up so I may just be missing something.

Another alternative to scrog would be to hang the bulbs from the ceiling so they dangle through the plants. I may have mentioned that, I forget.

 

[grow1620]

...unfortunately I can't really afford to do a "real" grow with ccfl atm...they're cheap but not quite cheap enough for me to do a dedicated grow with them, I'll probly add a few whites as supplement in veg....and hopefully be able to switch over to 100% ccfl in the future. I really like the slim design of them...

you would be better off with a reptile bulb!

umm..nm. *puts away troll biscuits in airtight container*


Scrub I really like the idea of them hanging "freely" in the canopy...a light breeze and you have some ghetto light movers if they swing a little.

Oh and stealth furnature grows are the future! lol I like hte idea of keeping one side working as the noise patsy

I just want to throw this out there....mini high-pod. discuss...

edit: here's a youtube vid I found with some good closeups of a ccfl package. looks like they use the simple 3 pin connectors to the inverter...seems like it might be the standard plug for ccfls to inverters?

 

[StealthDragon]

hmmmm.

hmmmm.



these are all logisys 12"

hmmm. good and bad I guess...When I opened up the blue and looked at it, I freaked out. As you can see it looks like a plain white bulb with blue lines painted on the plastic tube! but upon close inspection while they were lit, they are actually blue bulbs inside, a light blue. I guess the lines are just to enhance the blue and darken it up a little. The white tubes have these stupid white lines on them as well,damnit. The red is in a clear tube. I would send them back and try a different brand, but I then would be waiting who knows how many weeks and might end up with the same deal.

The quality of these are pretty cheap actually. The tubes on a few aren't centered perfectly, and some of the molex connectors are a little loose. I don't mind the connector part really as I'll probably just chop it off and splice them all together.

They're really not as bright as I imagined them they're not like blindingly bright like looking into my cfls or leds on my computer...(my lil cfls give me an almost instant headache not even looking directly at them) all 3 of those dual sets were run off an old 12vdc 2A adapter..I noticed no difference in brightness unhooking dual sets from the adapter, like unplugging the whole inverter and all, but (scrub) there defiantly is a small difference running 1 tube vs 2 off of the same inverter. I still plan on running 2 of each though, I'm not really pressed for space with these.

Oh yeh, my inverters are on backorder so it might be a week or 2 before I get them. At least everything is in the works though, maybe I'll do some veg tests with these while I wait for the rest of my stuff.

I would love it if you guys did a little review kinda like this if you get a different brand of ccfl. Even if it's all text

 

[Huggie bear]

Found these headlight kits on ebay - Xenon Angel Eye kits (8000k), this one is for a BMW. Unsure of the wattage but it's gotta be a bit, surely. More expensive, mind - $105aud inc shipping for the only one I've looked at. Pack includes:

• 4 x CCFL light tube rings
• 2 x ballast

Any rev heads know cheap sources for these suckaz? Or if ccfl headlights are standard for any cars? There are a lot of car wrecker shops here.

Keep it cold

Ebay
Along with the HID kits that could be used to PC builds as well.

 

[StealthDragon]

update.

update.

Hi. I made a spectrometer out of a broken cd, an old steamroller and some foil tape...I got pretty clear results from it but couldn't really get a good pic...so I made these for you guys just holding a CD.



the pics don't really show the full bands in detail.

I'm no expert on these spectrums/wavelengths. I understand a little and I'm doing the best to explain what I saw, hence the term "blurred" and such.
through the spectrometer:
-the red clearly has a red and orange peak, you can kind of see it in the bold arc to the left.
-the blue has a solid amber and green band, then has a blurred green to blue, aqua band and a little purple band.
-the white has solid red, amber, and green band, with blurred blue to aqua and a little bit bigger purple band then the blue bulb.

I'm no expert on these spectrums/wavelengths. I understand a little and I'm doing the best to explain what I saw, hence the term "blurred" and such.

These things seem pretty strong. I would probably be able to step on one flat and not break it, the plastic tubes seem pretty tough. The red also gets noticeably warmer then the other 2 colors. Just slightly warm in my hand. The white and blue were barely warm, like I had to feel the weight of them in my hand for a second to be able to tell. I could see running these with very little cooling.

I did all this after the lights had run for a good 15 minutes btw enjoy!

*edit: hey I totally forgot to mention that you can daisy chain these together. You can see the double molex plug thing in the pics of the opened kit a few posts up. oh and one of my pc slot switches had the polarity reversed on it? wtf? They must not put much care in putting them together I guess?

 

[ScrubNinja]

Holy cow guys. You all rock so hard.

Grow, thanks for that video, that was awesome. And the light mover idea. You are an ideas man, no doubt!

Huggie, yup thats where I found them

StealthDragon, lord almighty you don't mess about, mate! Holy wow. I didn't even know we could analyse the colours like that. Wow. Incredible helpful post and I will do the same for my bulbs. Do you mind explaining or maybe a link to how I actually perform this analysis with a cd? Do I just hold it near a cd and look at the reflection?

About the strips on the bulbs, in that link I posted with a big rundown on cold cathodes, they mention older sunbeams are like this:

Anyway, this kit or another very like it may well still be on sale here and there, and it's a bit odd. Its tubes have colour-striped sleeves, for some reason - the stripes only obstruct the light getting out, so I'm not sure why they're there.

From the look of your box, I assumed those were Sunbeams. They have an icon of a sun or something on them and no real name brands visible in the photos I've seen. Do they say Logisys anywhere? Perhaps Logisys rebadge them or something. I got the impression logysis were pretty bright and true, just from silly customer reviews on modding sites and such. Anyone reading though, Id suggest avoiding Sunbeams just in case. And probably avoid ebay sellers too if my suspicions are correct. (Edit: in a bit of a rush but read the whole review of the sunbeams, they sound pretty lacklustre)

Ah well, great post man, cheers and keep us informed. I have contacted AlienBait to ask a few things so maybe he can reflect (hohohoho) on a few issues.

Also SD,

The high frequency and voltage that CCFLs run from, by the way (some tens of kilohertz and several hundred volts), means that they're very sensitive to cable capacitance. The more capacitance their cable has, the more power it'll suck away and the dimmer the light will be. If you bunch both fists around the floppy white wires running to a CCFL, you'll practically extinguish it; it'll probably only light at the cathode end where the wires enter the lamp assembly.

 

[StealthDragon]

Well the box definitely says logisys on it..the little sun looking logo you see is actually a lil dino or something working on a pc with a screwdriver or something lol I don't know. They could definitely be repackaged though, there's no brand marks of any kind on the actual lights or inverters, no made in china, nothing.

Here's a link to the diy scope, there's plenty out there made with cardboard boxes too. I used 2 razor blades for the slit. I think the most important part is learning what to look for and how to look through it at the proper angle.

As far as holding the CD to the light, I'm not really sure how I angled it, just kinda moved it around till I saw a good spread. just watch those reflections
*doh! I just noticed that when I took the picture, the cd slid off the end a little, normally the edge of the cd kind of wedges into the inside of the tube.