Can INCREASING light hours confuse seedlings to early flower??

[brown_thumb]

Thats exactly what i've got in my cupboard!

And brown_thumb if you can, get a light meter to test the light intensity.

Good luck mate

I have a photography light meter but not a PAR meter. Are you suggesting I try to match artificial light intensity to sunlight intensity? Do I need a PAR meter or is the photography meter probably close enough? The LED lights obviously have a very different electromagnetic spectrum than sunlight so I doubt either meter will be very close in matching light intensity, but I don't know.

 

[MrBungle]

I'm trying to understand the problem better.... you are saying you have 5 plants... bag seed? or boutique seed? They were growing slowly outdoors in indirect light so you brought them inside, and now they are flowering way too early? are they autoflower?

 

[brown_thumb]

I'm trying to understand the problem better.... you are saying you have 5 plants... bag seed? or boutique seed? They were growing slowly outdoors in indirect light so you brought them inside, and now they are flowering way too early? are they autoflower?

These are feminized seeds, not autoflower (list below). I started these late April because sunlight hours here were approximately 13.5. Sometimes it's bright/sunny while other times it's half cloudy and occasionally it's overcast. If it's hot, dry and sunny, I've moved the plants to bright open shade for much of the day. The hot dry air here combined with blazing midday sun burns sensitive young plants to crisps. So they must either be moved to bright open shade or into the lightbox which is cooled somewhat... still dry though. I estimate these plants receive no more than 6 hours of full bright sunlight, plus another 6 hours of bright open shade, plus another 2 hours of less bright shaded light.

For the last three weeks, they've received artificial light at night with a 6 hour dark period. So they receive artificial light in the PM and AM. The plants are moved outdoors late morning to early evening to receive natural sunlight. Of course, lighting conditions outdoors vary. I'm not sure if I'm imagining this but the plants seem to grow faster under artificial light.

The lightbox has a mix of 5K LED, 2.7K LED, and just three incandescent bulbs. My thinking was this mix would provide a broader (more complete) light spectrum. Most of the lamps are 5K LED.

One plant has entered very early flower stage. I've not checked them today but as far as I know only one plant is flowering. I hope to force it back into veg with more careful control of lighting.

Started 20180422 (50 days old today):
(2) ILGM, AK-47, fem
(2) ILGM, Blue Dream, fem

Started 20180423 (49 days old today):
(1) Sweet Seeds, Sweet Skunk, fem

The plants range in height from 125-225mm but soil was added to them twice so they should be 25-40mm taller.

SIDE NOTE #1: My older plants (not the plants I'm asking about) did very poorly and all entered flower stage far too early. That crop is a near total loss. These only saw artificial light as small seedlings and I limited artificial light to 13/11 to avoid confusing them when I moved them outside. Outside lighting and weather conditions were the same as the younger plants, other than they were outside sooner.

SIDE NOTE #2: The only time I've not had a problem with early flowering was when I vegged in winter so the plants were in 16/8 artificial light until springtime when I moved them outside to finish... that was a decent crop.

EDIT: Photos added. The girl in middle-front with orange and purple markers is the one entering flower stage... she's the Sweet Skunk. The two on the left with white markers are Blue Dream. The two with red and blue markers are AK-47.

 

[MrBungle]

keep em under 18/6 and you shouldn't run into these issues... some plants will go into semi flower under 14 hours of light... I've had my blueberry headband show flowers under 16 hours of light
along with all the shuffling.. it probably triggered some hormonal imbalances in the plant...



was it the Blue Dream that showed early?

 

[brown_thumb]

keep em under 18/6 and you shouldn't run into these issues... some plants will go into semi flower under 14 hours of light... I've had my blueberry headband show flowers under 16 hours of light
along with all the shuffling.. it probably triggered some hormonal imbalances in the plant...



was it the Blue Dream that showed early?

No, it's the Sweet Skunk which is flowering early. I'm hoping if I avoid setting these in shade or overcast conditions (move them into artificial light instead) the others won't flower early and the Sweet Skunk will revert to veg.

 

[therevverend]

You're plants should be fine started outdoors in mid April. Outdoor growers start their plants in early March without supplemental lighting and their plants do not begin to flower. Some will show female in late May and June but that's a good thing. I'm thinking you have a serious brown thumb here. Your biggest problem may be overthinking things.
If you're starting seeds indoors always start them under 18 hours or more of light. Starting them under 11 or 13 hours of light is not something that needs to be done unless they are a tropical strain.
Outdoor plants in Texas do not need supplemental lighting. They may need extra warmth if there's a cold spell and temperatures drop below 40 degrees F. They will not start to flower outdoors unless they are stressed, clones, grown in the shade, or bad/autoflower/weird seeds.
Cannabis plants should always be grown in full sunlight. A seedling in it's first couple weeks of life usually doesn't like temperatures over 85 degrees but once they shoot out a couple leaf sets they'll be fine. The size your plants are, they should definitely be in full sunlight. Don't move them directly or they will be burned. Choose a couple cloudy days or move them a couple hours closer over a few days.
They will need plenty of water and misting would help. You'll need to feed them like crazy because they should be growing like crazy. Your runty little scrags should be 3 feet tall by now and thriving.
Throw away the lightbox. You're wasting electricity. Outdoor light is far far better then indoor lighting. You're artificially weakening your plants.
All the overthinking, attempts at coddling and worry has stunted your plants. You're in Texas, very similar conditions to Morocco, Lebanon, India, California, Afghanistan. Places where cannabis thrives and can even survive in the wild. It doesn't need light boxes and being moved between shade and indoor light and everything else. I wouldn't be surprised if they turn hermaphrodite. Then the breeder gets blamed but it was the grower that made the mistakes.
Always plant out more seed then you need. If some plants shrivel up and die so what? I know seeds are expensive but if you plant more you'll be able to select vigorous strong ones. Never ever use indoor lighting after early March in Texas if you're an outdoor grower.
You need to learn about gardening before you master cannabis growing. Now is a good time to plant pepper, tomatoes, eggplants. You don't have to go crazy and become a big time vegetable gardener but you can learn about keeping plants happy by growing stuff with similar needs. That way when you fuck up it's only vegetables instead of expensive cannabis seeds.
For many years I grew pot and vegetables without really knowing what I was doing. I was growing but not really growing. You need to think like a farmer. Learn about fungal dominate soils, different types of manures, composting, all that kind of shit. You probably won't use most of it but it will increase your knowledge and you'll find stuff you will use. Doesn't matter if you're growing indoors or outdoors you still need to think like a farmer.
Pay attention to what other people are doing. What crops are growing in your area, what the nurseries are selling, what the neighbors are growing down the street. Stop getting advice from indoor growers. Look at the threads from people growing outdoors in tropical places or California. California gets multiple days over 100 and similar lighting schedule and people don't grow their plants in lightboxes. Read the threads by people growing really big healthy plants outdoors and indoors not indoor growers growing dinky shit under fluorescents.
Cannabis is no different then any other crop it doesn't need special conditions. It's called weed for a reason. You're killing your plants with love. Hell, once a plant is in a good pot in a good sunny spot you can check it twice a day to make sure it's wet, maybe mist it a couple more times, but otherwise leave it alone. You'll be surprised by how much care they don't need. A lot of the guerrilla growers stick their plants out in the woods and then only check twice a month. In areas just as hot as yours.
Don't worry about size being a problem in detection. Not that you should be growing 15 foot monsters, just realize you can tie your plants down to conceal them. Growing unhealthy plants because you're worried about them being spotted is not good.

 

[Guy Brush]

It’s not the increasing hours,
It’s the general lack of light that triggers flower.
Do a little looking about the web concerning phytochrome & how it works in plants.

That way keeping moms under small lights 18-24 hours would still let them flower but they don't. Also the whole 12:12 thingy would be obsolete, but it isn't. And, if phytochrome had such a big role in flowering cannabis, then no one would be able to flower plants under blue-ish lights. Just my thinking atm.

 

[brown_thumb]

therevverend, I understand what your saying and I thought the same way. However, it's not working that way here. It's probably that the plants are in shade much of the day. I must keep them in my small back yard with eight-foot-tall fence to avoid neighbors' prying eyes. So they only get full sun for six hours or so. The supplemental lighting seems to be helping quite a bit. The couple of others I know growing here have more cover for their plants than I do, in their open fields. Even if I could grow stealthily enough on my back half, I have ambulatory issues so my back yard serves me much better.

 

[therevverend]

Six hours is great. That's what most of my plants get. Some get less. And I live in rain country. I can't remember the last time I've grown in full on sunlight. I've seen grows up here that get 2 hours of light and were killer. For their whole lives. And they never needed supplemental lighting.
I pop my plants in a window sill in mid March. They have to either go in a cold frame or be brought in at night for a couple weeks because it's too wet and cold. By April they go outside full time but still have to be protected from all the rain. Average temperatures are 60 Degrees F to a low of 40. They do just fine. By now they're 4 feet high and healthy dark green. With 4-6 hours of sunlight in the PNW.
If you're worried about detection tie your plants down. Don't let them get more then 4 feet tall. That's the simplest solution. If I was height limited I'd just push my plant over and stake it down. As the branches reach 4 feet I'd tie them down as well. On a separate topic I've never liked topping. Since you're removing the primary stem with all the energy for forming colas. Tying down is a much better solution.
Or if you want to grow smaller plants start in late May. Either way don't purposely grow dinky plants in the shade or under weak fluorescent lighting.
You'll do what you want to do, it doesn't matter to me. But complaining about early flowering, hermaphrodites, and scraggy plants because you're giving your plants poor conditions is silly. Or thinking that plants will force flower in the spring from the days getting longer. Seedlings planted from early March to May will kick ass and grow big is what they do. If they do anything else you've got a big problem you need to solve.

 

[brown_thumb]

Well then, I guess I just suck at growing. My little plants look healthy enough but this early flowering crap is killing me.

Today's pics (the container turned 180 degrees from first images...

The flowering horny little bitch...

 

[rexamus616]

Well look at it as an early taste of some nice homegrown bud, and find some later flowering strains....

or just focus on the individuals which don't flower early like that....

Or try to reveg them your lights>? Then u can take some cuttings and keep trying every time u have a mis hap...


There will always be crappy seasons man, you'll be right... keep learnin is the main thing....

 

[brown_thumb]

Well look at it as an early taste of some nice homegrown bud, and find some later flowering strains....

or just focus on the individuals which don't flower early like that....

Or try to reveg them your lights>? Then u can take some cuttings and keep trying every time u have a mis hap...


There will always be crappy seasons man, you'll be right... keep learnin is the main thing....

I learn new stuff all the time. My problem is I soon forget and must learn anew. This keeps things interesting, but frustrating.