Calling All Pot Sommeliers

[Silver Bullet]

um... well, first you have to understand that drying our good herb under the sun does make a big impact on the final quality; what the colombians are doing is to basically destroy the crop that took so many months to grow right after harvest by lumping all buds together under the sun.

Okay, just to clarify to make sure I understand...you are saying sun drying is bad right? Because indoor growing it's dark.

I think I threw you off by using "Sun dried" as if it were a good thing to advertise. Sorry, it was just more of an example more than anything. My bad entirely on that.

people buy this herb because it is the most widely available and because it is the one most people can afford... good herb from colombia is more expensive per gram than good cocaine from colombia, so here the demand has nothing to do at all with the taste of the people, but merely by what the suppliers are willing to produce.

it is the same with the examples you gave... sure, a lot of people eat at fast junk food spots, but a lot of the people would rather be eating at a restaurant with more wholesome foods, but these are usually a lot more expensive...

many times the people will buy mass-produced products not because it is what the consumer wants, but it is because what the consumer can only afford...

I agree with all that stuff you just said. Do continue.

Why do you think the suppliers are not also at the mercy of the marketplace? Do they have a monopoly or something? Do you not think that they will do whatever they need to do to make the most profit? That includes but is not limited to: Keeping drug operations scaled down to reduce risk and make management easier, Kill people, Use strains that are high yield and quick to grow, etc.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Okay, just to clarify to make sure I understand...you are saying sun drying is bad right? Because indoor growing it's dark.

I think I threw you off by using "Sun dried" as if it were a good thing to advertise. Sorry, it was just more of an example more than anything. My bad entirely on that.

yes, I am saying sun-drying is not the best. cool, we understand each other then

I agree with all that stuff you just said. Do continue.

Why do you think the suppliers are not also at the mercy of the marketplace? Do they have a monopoly or something? Do you not think that they will do whatever they need to do to make the most profit? That includes but is not limited to: Keeping drug operations scaled down to reduce risk and make management easier, Kill people, Use strains that are high yield and quick to grow, etc.

yes, I think some people behind some of the commercial grow-ops will do whatever they need to do to make the most profit; this includes all the things you mentioned, sun-drying and also harvesting early.

but it is hard to compare mass-production when cannabis is still illegal, and while it is illegal mass-produced herb is going to be a lot shittier than if it were mass-produced in a legal world.

however, I still think that mass-production of herb in a herb-friendly world will not end up producing as much quality herb than people growing in smaller amounts. which is all I'm trying to say really.

much peace

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I tried to get further understanding of a sommelier from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sommelier It sounds like they are only involved in how the wine tastes.

Can you please help clarify what it would mean to be a sommelier in marijuana? In what profession would it be beneficial? Like a coffee shop? Like you would suggest to customers what type of coffee tastes good with Northern Lights #5?

Somms also have to know about food and cigars because of pairings. Some wine will make some foods taste like shit, even if they are good seperatley. Some wine enhances the flavor experience of the food. A master somm can tell you very specifically down to the vintage of what wine will go best with a dish. They can spot on identify a wine in a blind taste. I'm talking type, region, vinyard, and year, acuracy.

One of the main idea of the system is to incorporate it into fine dining. Get people with money to get interested in it, thus finding a reason to protect it. So to answer one of your questions, yes. A pot somm should be able to pair pot with a food or drink. For instance a spicey haze would go well with meats. A lemony genius would go nice with fish. Blueberry would go great with muffins.

A master pot somm could do the same. In our system though there would also be master breeder/grower, Master hash maker, and Indoors Masters

I think in order to be admited into the cannabis Sommelier's guild you must present a home grown from seed crop to show a minimum proficiency with the plant. Presented with that is hash made from the same crop. You must also show a certain knowlege of genetics, and pot history.

I think to be a Master you must make a strain from scratch starting with landraces, and present it to the guild. The strain must be pretty stable with a maximum of only 3 major phenotype expressions of the plant. Then you must produce hash of a bubbling quality from that. All entries must be perfectly cured. The master must have exstensive knowledge on genetics, other breeders, and history. They must be able to identify any well established strain through simple observation, and smoking. They must beable to pair it with not only foods, but more importantly activities. Pot is all about mood more than anything.

For me it is hard to come up with all the qualifications, because I am not a master. I think some one like Sam the Skunk Man, could do that though, but they probably dont have time. It would take a gathering of 30 people or so of that caliber to make a system.

moving on. Mandatory quality enforcments on big corp would be great. That way people that can only afford the mass produced stuff still get a decent product.

I am glad you ask these questions. It is hard to answer questions that need explaining if nobody asks them. This way I can help people understand better,

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Unsnobbify fine dining

I would like to get pot to make fine dinning Unsnobby. People could chill out and enjoy them selves more and let their pretentious fakeness melt away, and be themsleves. They would enjoy the food and atmosphere much more as well. Dinner tables are for brining people together, and nothing brings people together better than pot, because pot helps humans love each other. It helps humans see the big picture and a peace comes over them, then brings them back down to earth. It opens door ways of thought.

BTW I think shrooms should be legalized and added to this system as well.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Shameless bump. I dont do this often, but I like this thread.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

I am glad you prefaced that second statement with the first... it's obvious that you don't know or understand the nuances in wine or beer that set the different types apart.

I respect your knowledge of cannabis, but you could use some education on alcoholic beverages. You may as well just stated that there isn't a difference between indica and sativa...

I can. Used to work in the culinary industry, and have made the rounds as far as food meccas.

I can discern different types of bourbon, as well as Wine, etc.

Brew my own, grow my own.

I do believe big biz will obviously get in on the action, but something Sam did not mention is the boutique operations that will spring up.

Like Microbreweries, small batch Bourbon, and boutique Wineries such as Caymus. Quality will speak for itself.

Go to the Gas Station if you want a pack of Phllip Morris reg weed, or go to the local Fine Cannabis Purveyor, and hit up some of Sam's finest.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Unsnobbify fine dining

I would like to get pot to make fine dinning Unsnobby. People could chill out and enjoy them selves more and let their pretentious fakeness melt away, and be themsleves. They would enjoy the food and atmosphere much more as well. Dinner tables are for brining people together, and nothing brings people together better than pot, because pot helps humans love each other. It helps humans see the big picture and a peace comes over them, then brings them back down to earth. It opens door ways of thought.

BTW I think shrooms should be legalized and added to this system as well.

I don't think fine dining is snobby. Some of the people that eat their might, but those are usually the ones who don't know shit.

Fine dining includes The French Laundry, but is not limited to those type of restaurants. My favorite type places are the small places like WD50 in New York. Still fine dining, but without the trendiness.

You forgot to mention weed and food go together like, peas and carrots.

 

[UnknownProphet]

For the record I love this idea and next november when mary is hopefully legalized in cali I would like to have some sort of test like this to give to those wanting to work for me. Yes I already have my own imaginary weed waredhouse/bar/smokers den, and no you and your imaginary friend can not come and work for me.

I used to work with wine for a while, well actually when I was 18 I worked at trader joes and was put incharge of all their wine stock (ordering, labeling, stocking, ect.) It gave me knowledge for my next echelon in wine. Although I stopped there I have never stopped my knowlegde of cannabis.

I would really love to actually have my intelligence tested on the matter of all things cannabis. There's just two things in life that I will throughly miss when I'm gone beside friends and family; that is music and cannabis. Until I'm gone I plan on learning as much as my brain will allow on both subjects.


*Oh and a side note my buddy went to the culinary academy, but now strictly works as a private medical chef.(making around 300 dollars each meal not including price of food which they pay separate!!) He tells me of all these amazing 5 star dishes infused with weed and literally makes my mouth water thinking about it. I've tried his regular cooking and I would describe it as if your mouth was able to orgasm. I could only imagine a fusion with my favorite mind altering flower.


ʇǝɥdoɹPuʍouʞuU

 

[theJointedOne]

There are tons of folks who keep a low profile on here yet are doing it VERY big, just not sharing. Many probably know as much as the above mentioned growers like tom hill and BOG ect... and anybody else, they just dont want to out themselves online. That being said i think it would be hard to put together a process that wasnt biased as this is a hobby of many different thought. I mean how many times do you argue with your buddies about what is the best way to grow. Imagine getting this argument on a global scale and actually coming to a conclusion without disregarding a very large part of our community...i dont see it happening. plus who is to keep the so called Master from picking his friends as the second masters or whatever they are called.

Now building a reputation and actually letting your work speak for itself, that seems like the best way to rate a grower.

just my 2 cents

peace

ps. you forgot to include north east California in your great weed growing areas -Many of the gurus are up here. Drier mediteranian climate

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

A master coulnt just pick their friends unless they portrayed the knowledge. Very few people can really be considered masters. Their is less master somm's than countires in the world. I am not sure if you get how hard it would be. Also their is no way you could be a master unless your work has already spoken for you.

unfortunately much fine dining is very snobby, due to the people that can most easily afford it. The restraunts them selves are generally not snobby. The people that work in them cant even afford to eat there most of the time. I cant afford to eat where I work.

Fine dining is getting better, because the art of good food is gaining popularity with the middle class because of certain t.v. shows and media. Some snobiness is dying, but inagine how cool it would be if pot was incorporated.

Hmmmm, I will have to check out eastern cali. thanks for the tip. How expensive is it to live out there?

Also why cant I work for you in imagination land? you can apply at my buisness when pot is legal. I will give you an interview. It is going to be a hotel/dutch style coffe shop/ restraunt/ place to chill.

I think toking a big fatty on a patio with a mountain view sippping Moscato d' Asti, listening to music would be a great additional activitiy to any hotel.

 

[Silver Bullet]

Somms also have to know about food and cigars because of pairings. Some wine will make some foods taste like shit, even if they are good seperatley. Some wine enhances the flavor experience of the food. A master somm can tell you very specifically down to the vintage of what wine will go best with a dish. They can spot on identify a wine in a blind taste. I'm talking type, region, vinyard, and year, acuracy.

One of the main idea of the system is to incorporate it into fine dining. Get people with money to get interested in it, thus finding a reason to protect it. So to answer one of your questions, yes. A pot somm should be able to pair pot with a food or drink. For instance a spicey haze would go well with meats. A lemony genius would go nice with fish. Blueberry would go great with muffins.

A master pot somm could do the same. In our system though there would also be master breeder/grower, Master hash maker, and Indoors Masters

Okay, that makes sense. I think that could be a good idea. You'll probably agree it doesn't tie in as well with food as wine. But a person familiar with the tastes and flavours of bud would be very useful across different venues perhaps.

I think in order to be admited into the cannabis Sommelier's guild you must present a home grown from seed crop to show a minimum proficiency with the plant. Presented with that is hash made from the same crop. You must also show a certain knowlege of genetics, and pot history.

I think to be a Master you must make a strain from scratch starting with landraces, and present it to the guild. The strain must be pretty stable with a maximum of only 3 major phenotype expressions of the plant. Then you must produce hash of a bubbling quality from that. All entries must be perfectly cured. The master must have exstensive knowledge on genetics, other breeders, and history. They must be able to identify any well established strain through simple observation, and smoking. They must beable to pair it with not only foods, but more importantly activities. Pot is all about mood more than anything.

For me it is hard to come up with all the qualifications, because I am not a master. I think some one like Sam the Skunk Man, could do that though, but they probably dont have time. It would take a gathering of 30 people or so of that caliber to make a system.

moving on. Mandatory quality enforcments on big corp would be great. That way people that can only afford the mass produced stuff still get a decent product.

I am glad you ask these questions. It is hard to answer questions that need explaining if nobody asks them. This way I can help people understand better,

This is the part that makes no sense to me. I don't understand why a breeder would be more qualified to tell you what tastes good with what any more than someone who's smoked lots of different herb and eaten it with lots of different food.

Just don't see the advantage at all and it seems like overkill. I dont understand why they would even need more than the minimal knowledge of growing (ie: flushing before harvest).

I'm unconvinced, but if you're willing to pursue my approval, then I present The Pepsi Challenge. Have two people (one qualified, another less qualified) give me a food/bud combo based on their recomendations. Being that this idea is in it's infancy, it would be bad morale to refuse a challenge. If you really believe in this thing, I'm willing to help you.

 

[Greyskull]

We will also then find out truely where the best places to grow are. No hype. I think Maui is gonna win that though.

yep, i think you are right on with that!
everything grown on maui is better than everywhere else.

carry on enjoying the thread....

(i really like how the first 2 pics show you a field ready and the same field loaded up with cane... imagine if that was insert strain name here...)

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I'm glad this thread got picked back up.

Silver bullet- you could be right about it being a little overkill. like you said all of these ideas are in their infancy. I think their would have to be different major paths you can concentrate on in the system. like start with bud somm. then move onto grower, then hash making, and finally breeding. Get all of these done and be a level three. pass a final crazy hard test and be a master.

Grey skull- Volcanic soil in a tropical environment that isnt to hot or humid is perfect for bud. I bet all the volcanic islands in the mediterainian grow great herb too. I bet you can grow some great herb near mount st. helens too. I imagine new mexico would be a great place to grow afgani.

oh ya thanks for the nice pics.

 

[bbing]

Well, in the spirit of the original heat of this thread.....

Best place to grow what? Depends on strain. Whats the best stain to grow? Depends on preference.


Some subjectivity will need to be worked out....here goes mine:

Best place to Root and Veg? (besides my box)
Best Place to Flower? (besides my box)



btw SB,

Enologists vs. Vitticulturists is a pretty close match to Grower/Breeder vs. Grower/Breedr Somm, you see, those of us who are natural somms had to become herbiculturists (hehe) first so that we even had any weed to sit around for hours describing. Couldn't (until recently) run down to the local retailer for the next hot bottle. The best of many, was comprable to Two Buck Chuck, so instead developing a fuller knowledge of all the characteristics that effect good weed; many sat around describing the subtle differences between the same poly hybrids that have been around for 2 decades in one variant morph or another.


Good wine will ALWAYS be about GOOD FRUIT and the craft
Good Marijuana will ALWAYS be about GOOD FRUIT and the craft.
NO GOOD FRUIT? Wont mater how crafty you are, you will never exceed the quality of the fruit you start out with.


We havnt even come to any consenses re: the basics of effect but id you pour through the years of smoke reports, you will find a few that have a natural ability to relate (in few words..so im out!) the essence and significant nuance of strain. Thats all we need. No weed snobs (we are all weedies)

Like alot of things in my life, cannabis has deeper meaning to me as an agent of anti-establishment. It probably took awhile after prohibition for the shiners to come out of there hollers, put down the stills, and develop their palletes.

 

[sparkjumper]

Idaho must be a good place to grow erb,right alongside the taters in volcanic soil.Unfortunately I dont know anything about volcanic soil my soil says ocean forest on it lol.

 

[Normannen]

Just for your extra information...i dunno if these links are pertinent with the subject or of any interest to you out there
this one is about breeding for flavor, by this Franco guy from GreenHouse
i believe the notions he talks about should become one of the basis for eventual sommelier-ing. i believe the GHCS is gonna start having "potmeliers" now that they mapped all the terpenes in their strains or a similar system on paper such as "the flavor wheel" you can see all that at theirs websites...

http://www.francogrow.com/web2/pages/grow-area/terpenes-and-cannabis-breeding-on-flavor.php

and here for the geographical interested i thought this might be of interest, on the same site.

http://www.francogrow.com/web2/pages/grow-area/12-countries-1-plant---italy.php

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^cool link thanks for posting. It would be nice if they would get the ball rolling. I am not a fan of green house though at all, or white label. All the seeds they have sent me have been problematic.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I keep finding more threads everyday of people complaining about problems that my theory could fix. I am really surprised this hasnt caught on more yet.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

bump it up

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

bump just cause I wanna