California’s Prop 19: A word-for-word analysis

[Kalicokitty]

and 18-20 not being alowed to use marijuana. I am bringing up... I would in fact vote yes.

.

Al, no one gives a flying fuck about the 18-20 year olds, except 18-20 year olds.
Time flies, and in the blink of an eye they will be the legal smoking age.
They need to relax and enjoy their youth, I'd give up my right to smoke for the rest of my life to be 18 again.

21 to drink, 21 to smoke, let it go Al, by the time you got some kind of bill together and passed, all todays 18-20 years old would be 21 already, and it wouldn't matter anyway.

You're like a broken record
more then an OZ, 18-20, more then an OZ, 18-20, more then an OZ, 18-20, more then an oz, 18-20, etc...............................

 

[JackTheGrower]

Yeah, I got on the asshole side yesterday. I can't take any cannabis because I must find and keep a job even though I am a medical person and my disabilities are acting up. I apologize for that.

I have to get work and they will fire folks fro testing positive but worse won't hire someone who tests positive.

So to me unless there is strong language protecting folks from the loss of employment then this Initiative is BS since it depends on us hiring a lawyer and suing to see this develop any further and we already have the Supreme court ruling on the books against us remember? CASE HERE

So I will repeat myself again: If we vote this Prop 19 in we Support being fired.


The second thing that I can't get past is the Liberty to have a garden is assigned only to property owners. It needs to give people the freedom.
Then we also know it does little to protect gardeners from local ordnances such as 5x5x1 for example.

It doesn't feel right to have Cannabis Liberty assigned to property owners only. We all are subject to contracts when we rent or lease so why does Prop 19 have to assign rights to property owners why can't we make our own rules when we create contracts.

It has the basic framework of Freedom but it just won't work in the Central valley.
Without clear rights of People to have a garden there will be blanket discrimination in some parts of the State and other parts of the State may have more freedom than Prop 19 spells out.

It's Unfair at best.


I have said I would be open to this if that had had the balls to give rights to people and to protect us in employment situations.
I feel the bell has to be rung loudly! Loud enough that people notice they are being short-changed on the Freedom aspect especially Horticulture rights.

This Initiative is too soft on rights for people IMO.

The parts about not going to jail or not having to pay a fine are right on but are we paying too big of a price tag this time around for something we will get in 2012?


So in Politics we do offend each other. It happens and you and I know we have covered these topics over and over again for many months.

We can do better in 2012 Are you with me?

If you new much about the cannabis movement, you would know about Russ and what he has done for the cause. I bet it is TEN fold what you have done. Not to compare but just since your being such as ass to me. When was the last time NORML made you 'Freedom Fighter of the Month"? The guy runs the blog at NORML has been involved in shaping the medical scene in Oregon. Hosted talk radio shows on cannabis and help produced a tv show on cannabis.

So I say his 'opinion' is worth a little...in my book a lot and definitely more than yous.




Yeah..so see ya



I don't...post after post...repeat the same thing. I might once in a while post something significant in an other thread. A perfect example is this thread.



'if we don't have freedom from the start'???? What freedom do we have now??? Last I checked it was still AGAINST THE LAW TO POSSESS CANNABIS. At least this law gives up something. You want an all in out free for all. That's cool but don't bash people because they think different than YOU or that they are willing after all these decades to get some form of relief from these draconian laws.




Well now I see your true colors. I had respect for you.




So jack....yo can sit here all day and make shit up about me and tell people what I believe but the truth is in my posts. If you took the time to read all of them you would see that I am against all drug laws. I could give a shit what you do in your home or my neighbors as long as it doesn't effect me. I am all about personal freedom.

You are about fear, judgement, shit talking and the continued prohibition of cannabis. So you can take your 1 foot plant and....

Glad you stood up. It makes for a spirited debate.

I take it you will be on-board with me in 2012 no mater what happens this time out?

 

[vta]

I take it you will be on-board with me in 2012 no mater what happens this time out?

And any other imitative that furthers the cause

 

[GanjaAL]

Al, no one gives a flying fuck about the 18-20 year olds, except 18-20 year olds.
Time flies, and in the blink of an eye they will be the legal smoking age.
They need to relax and enjoy their youth, I'd give up my right to smoke for the rest of my life to be 18 again.

21 to drink, 21 to smoke, let it go Al, by the time you got some kind of bill together and passed, all todays 18-20 years old would be 21 already, and it wouldn't matter anyway.

You're like a broken record
more then an OZ, 18-20, more then an OZ, 18-20, more then an OZ, 18-20, more then an oz, 18-20, etc...............................

Please explain to me why your opinion of me matters to me....

Sorry that I care more about people going to jail than I do people being able to smoke recreationally.

 

[venturablaze]

theres no point to argue, because theres no valid reason to vote no, its a step forward!! fuck the bs.

 

[kannubis]

Things could get a whole lot worse if prop 19 gets nayed by the voters.

It would send LEO and his bosses the message that less than half of the voters in California believe cannabis is beneficial (or at least not the EVIL WEED that reefer madness has made into the outlook of the uninformed masses.)

That is not good for the cause, and will lead to a harder task of getting anything pro cannabis on the ballot in the future.

This could be our last chance to change the status quo of our beloved mary jane.

Think about it.

You have until November to decide.

That leaves two years of bad juju hanging out there until the 2012 election where many more people will be penalized for a offense we could have prevented.

Besides, what good will legalizing in 2012 do if the world were to end as so many seem to think?

 

[JackTheGrower]

It just seems unfair that prop 19 creates millionaires and the poor people get the shaft.

 

[bluekush]

Things could get a whole lot worse if prop 19 gets nayed by the voters.

It would send LEO and his bosses the message that less than half of the voters in California believe cannabis is beneficial (or at least not the EVIL WEED that reefer madness has made into the outlook of the uninformed masses.)

That is not good for the cause, and will lead to a harder task of getting anything pro cannabis on the ballot in the future.

This could be our last chance to change the status quo of our beloved mary jane.

Think about it.

You have until November to decide.

That leaves two years of bad juju hanging out there until the 2012 election where many more people will be penalized for a offense we could have prevented.

Besides, what good will legalizing in 2012 do if the world were to end as so many seem to think?

well if leo really cared then he should have went for a bill that was more the people than big bussiness I understand it and I don't blame him for he is a man of bussiness but by the same token you can't blame the people that want to take care of their bussiness for me the things I. like about the bill was the drug testing thing thatt would make me feel safe as an employee but jack the grower debunked it, also waiting two years for a far better bill that is more for the people what's two years when we have been waiting 70+. people that are pro this bill like to make you. beleave that this bill is yourr last chance but I just don't see it and not to say that people with the no stance don't say things that are absurde things but jack and dennis explained why they aganist this bill and I feel they have some valid points they are the reason we arre where we are today and again this is just my oppion

Jack Herer 2012

 

[JackTheGrower]

theres no point to argue, because there's no valid reason to vote no, its a step forward!! fuck the bs.

I understand. I honestly don't know who it will turn out.

We can get together for 2012 and if we all donate time and money we can put an Initiative on the Ballot we all want.

It took 1.2 million for this one. So we need 1.2 Million to donate a Dollar.

If Everyone donated $20 we need 60,000 people to donate.

It is sounding very doable to me. Now that the issue has been so advertised!

When California Cannabis Initiative tried to get going we had a problem that folks had just started thinking about this.

So now that it's on the front page we have a much easier time!

Remember the majority of No voters are dieing every day.

 

[someotherguy]

Remember the majority of No voters are dieing every day.

not exactly true Jack, considering you've already made
it abundantly clear that you intend to vote 'no' yourself.

personally, i think you are being way too idealistic to
think we will ever get a better bill, at least in the near
future.

as has already been said, if this initiative fails it could
have dire consequences for cannabis reform.

...and i think you underestimate conservatives and how
many will vote to legalize when in the privacy of the voting
booth.

the fight will truly begin AFTER this is passed and people
start to define the limits of the law. . . like ALL laws,
it will go through an evolutionary process.

peace, and stay safe, SOG

 

[kannubis]

It just seems unfair that prop 19 creates millionaires and the poor people get the shaft.

Another Republican dream bill it appears. Is not their agenda "FUCK THE POOR"? Yet the ultra conservatives will not go for it.

 

[StoneElemental]

Very true and you and I have noted this several times before.

not exactly true Jack, considering you've already made
it abundantly clear that you intend to vote 'no' yourself.

personally, i think you are being way too idealistic to
think we will ever get a better bill, at least in the near
future.

as has already been said, if this initiative fails it could
have dire consequences for cannabis reform.

...and i think you underestimate conservatives and how
many will vote to legalize when in the privacy of the voting
booth.

the fight will truly begin AFTER this is passed and people
start to define the limits of the law. . . like ALL laws,
it will go through an evolutionary process.

peace, and stay safe, SOG

To note on the subject of employment testing. As these companies are private companies the government won't do anything about this. If you think otherwise you're a little too naive for that debate itself. A company can and will test for anything it wants because you are working for them and if theres a reasonable reason for them to deny you or fire you they can. I don't agree with this BS testing myself but the only way to get by it is to discourage the propaganda driven idea that using cannabis is morally wrong and that it turn one into an unfit irresponsible individual to keep employed or otherwise.

For the debate over 18-20 year olds, come on thats such a short span of time its ridiculous not to mention an extremely weak arguement aswell.

Any other serious flaws again can be fixed along the way. I'm going to be helping along some of my own states cannabis reform instead of waiting around for the next best thing. While I do that I at least expect some of you to attempt something better instead of staying on the fence or voting no and be so naive to believe that a better one will just come, sorry not likely. Heres your shot the rest of us out of staters just don't wanna see you screw it up, especially for yourselves.

-S.E.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Another Republican dream bill it appears. Is not their agenda "FUCK THE POOR"? Yet the ultra conservatives will not go for it.

I can't sleep so i hit the keyboard.

I have been around discussing this in most every thread we have had from the many months we all have been discussing it here.
Back when it was in the Cannabis politics forum, then split between that and the front page area and then shunted to the California section where most all discussion died except the front page area.
I am actually surprise that the Politics has been given such a global green light here after all the effort to sequester.
Perhaps folks forgot how we got here?

My goal is to understand what exactly we are voting on. I am neither for or against officially but I am hoping that someone can convince me that Prop 19 is the right step forward.

The Ultra conservatives I do believe are a no vote. They include the religious sectors in the Foothills all up and down the state.
Any where Counties depend on cheap labor I assume it's a No vote too.
While not conservative by nature the Hispanic vote is most certainly No.

This Prop 19 went back and added wording to be sure it striped out the protections for the Working people, which they did on the second revision, making it a horrid act against the Cannabis people in my opinion.
I assume it wanted to reflect the Supreme Court's ruling against the Medical Guy.
I wonder just how many understand what they did by not offering us a way to protect ourselves on our jobs.

It's a Gamble that The Lee Group has made.. Will it pay off?

Will Prop 19 be embraced by the major Capitalist powers?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Very true and you and I have noted this several times before.



To note on the subject of employment testing. As these companies are private companies the government won't do anything about this. If you think otherwise you're a little too naive for that debate itself. A company can and will test for anything it wants because you are working for them and if theres a reasonable reason for them to deny you or fire you they can. I don't agree with this BS testing myself but the only way to get by it is to discourage the propaganda driven idea that using cannabis is morally wrong and that it turn one into an unfit irresponsible individual to keep employed or otherwise.

For the debate over 18-20 year olds, come on thats such a short span of time its ridiculous not to mention an extremely weak arguement aswell.

Any other serious flaws again can be fixed along the way. I'm going to be helping along some of my own states cannabis reform instead of waiting around for the next best thing. While I do that I at least expect some of you to attempt something better instead of staying on the fence or voting no and be so naive to believe that a better one will just come, sorry not likely. Heres your shot the rest of us out of staters just don't wanna see you screw it up, especially for yourselves.

-S.E.

Just a random thought.

We have the law and we have culture. Are we at the point that we are creating generation after generation on some level?

Are we seeing the Cattle Farm Regulations of Humans? Are we now serving Capitalism when Capitalism promised to serve us?

Interesting thing that perhaps Prop 19 people had to add to not protect workers?

Just tossing it out..

Oh and I am all for 2012 and united front now that we have such exposure on the subject.
We will have to advertise why Prop 19 was bad and failed to keep momentum going.

 

[someotherguy]

Please note above... people are going to jail in record number for possesion over an oz. That is the leading cause of arrests in cali.

Again that is why I am voting no. It restricts and will alow them to put some of my family and friends in jail. I do not live in fear as you do... I have my recomendation and it is respected by LE... even in SB county.

I do not let fear rule my vote or force me to vote against what I believe in.

Jack Herer's prop for 2012 baby! Freedom for everyone!

if your friends are traveling outside the house with
more than an ounce then they deserve what they
get, unless you're transporting product for sale, you
don't need more than an ounce for your head.

so this is a foolish reason to vote no.

and why should someone have to sacrifice their integrity
to get a recommendation to smoke when they have no
medical need? ...what you're saying is it's ok to lie to
skirt the law for your own selfish desire.

maybe you're ok being a liar but i'm not.

Oh and I am all for 2012 and united front now that we have such exposure on the subject.
We will have to advertise why Prop 19 was bad and failed to keep momentum going.

and Jack, you keep talking about 2012, what in God's
name makes you believe we'll have another chance in
2012? ...it took over 70 years to get this bill on the ballot,
if it fails you can be sure the politicians will use that failure
as a mandate against cannabis reform.

we need to get this passed and then fight like hell to
amend it, you know, like all laws.

as i see it, the only people against this bill are the ones
who are blinded by their own idealism or they are motivated
by greed.

peace, and stay safe, it ain't legal yet, SOG

 

[desertsquirrel]

First you have to get one foot in the door, then you kick it down with the other foot....

 

[FoxxyDoe]

and Jack, you keep talking about 2012, what in God's
name makes you believe we'll have another chance in
2012? ...it took over 70 years to get this bill on the ballot,
if it fails you can be sure the politicians will use that failure
as a mandate against cannabis reform.

Fear factor from the yes side.

 

[Flankenstein]

Dont let our broken state takxe-advantage of our middle-lower class through the classic mob takeover of the dope game. Its all politics why it isnt legal, but now they see it toward thier advantage to "legalize", which i can bet wont have much of a personal effect on the criminal aspect of average smokers unless you smoke with 19yr olds , than your a straight crimey.
CA judges dismiss 28 grams and less all day in court. i suggest a CCard, its like the dead poets society for stoners!
"a dime bag gets sold, i want in"-Scarface 1973/ gov. schwarzeneger 2010

 

[vta]

which i can bet wont have much of a personal effect on the criminal aspect of average smokers unless you smoke with 19yr olds , than your a straight crimey.
CA judges dismiss 28 grams and less all day in court. i suggest a CCard, its like the dead poets society for stoners!
"a dime bag gets sold, i want in"-Scarface 1973/ gov. schwarzeneger 2010

or unless you GROW...that is a felony right now. And NOT after 19

 

[JackTheGrower]

or unless you GROW...that is a felony right now. And NOT after 19

Is Selling to dispensaries a crime after 19 for medical people?