Caldera based seed sexing

[Seaf0ur]

I know its not new.... at this point the original source is obscure.. and I have the same issue.... groups seem to have tested it without posting result. Hence this thread... to see it through to fruition... feel free to jump in with a test and disprove it. SG just popped 30 with at least 70% positive result... fluke? perhaps.... more testing is needed. I have not yet seen any proof that its bullshit.... but I have noticed a shift towards female since starting... enough that I'm willing to gather anyone willing to do real testing and put it to bed once and for all as I stated above.

 

[Chimera]

... feel free to jump in with a test and disprove it. SG just popped 30 with at least 70% positive result... fluke? perhaps...

Nope, sorry, not statistically significant.

Reads to me like a 30% negative result, seems the evidence is stacking up for it not be a valid methodology even from your own results... if it were valid, wouldn't we see 100% females, not just 70%?
To reiterate, you can't disprove the existence or validity of something, but it's very easy to prove something does exist or to prove the validity of a method.

If the method were valid, you guys would be seeing 100% concordance in all cases. You're not, even 'your' resuts confirm it, case closed for me.....

 

[Chimera]

Here is a publication from a method I've been using since '96-97; it has shown 100% concordance with gender for every single plant I've ever tested for the marker.

Plant Cell Physiol. 1995 Dec;36(8):1549-54.
A male-associated DNA sequence in a dioecious plant, Cannabis sativa L.
Sakamoto K, Shimomura K, Komeda Y, Kamada H, Satoh S.

Abstract
Male-associated DNA sequences were analyzed in a dioecious plant, Cannabis sativa L. (family: Moraceae), which is known to have sex chromosomes. DNA was isolated from male and female plants and subjected to random amplification of polymorphic DNA. Two out of 15 primers yielded fragments of 500 and 730 bp which were detected in all male plants but not in any of the female plants tested. These two DNA fragments were cloned and used as probes in gel blot analysis of genomic DNA. When the male and female DNAs were allowed to hybridize with the 500-bp probe, no differences in patterns were observed between male and female plants. By contrast, when these DNAs were allowed to hybridize with the 730-bp probe, much more intense bands specific to male plants were detected, in addition to less intense bands that were common to both sexes. The 730-bp DNA fragment was named MADC1 (male-associated DNA sequence in Cannabis sativa). The sequence of MADC1 did not include a long open reading frame and it exhibited no significant similarity to previously reported sequences.

 

[Seaf0ur]

If there is ANY result more than 50/50 then there may be some correlation between the two. that having already been proven, the next logical step is to calculate the accuracy.... if you cannot disprove the validity of the chart, why dismiss it or attempt to discourage anyone from testing its efficacy?

cancer is not cured 100% of the time... so give up on curing cancer?

 

[TheRealHash]

Here is a publication from a method I've been using since '96-97; it has shown 100% concordance with gender for every single plant I've ever tested for the marker.

Plant Cell Physiol. 1995 Dec;36(8):1549-54.
A male-associated DNA sequence in a dioecious plant, Cannabis sativa L.
Sakamoto K, Shimomura K, Komeda Y, Kamada H, Satoh S.

Abstract
Male-associated DNA sequences were analyzed in a dioecious plant, Cannabis sativa L. (family: Moraceae), which is known to have sex chromosomes. DNA was isolated from male and female plants and subjected to random amplification of polymorphic DNA. Two out of 15 primers yielded fragments of 500 and 730 bp which were detected in all male plants but not in any of the female plants tested. These two DNA fragments were cloned and used as probes in gel blot analysis of genomic DNA. When the male and female DNAs were allowed to hybridize with the 500-bp probe, no differences in patterns were observed between male and female plants. By contrast, when these DNAs were allowed to hybridize with the 730-bp probe, much more intense bands specific to male plants were detected, in addition to less intense bands that were common to both sexes. The 730-bp DNA fragment was named MADC1 (male-associated DNA sequence in Cannabis sativa). The sequence of MADC1 did not include a long open reading frame and it exhibited no significant similarity to previously reported sequences.

I'm baked, but I don't under stand that ^ at all

 

[Seaf0ur]

Its talking about using genetic sequencing to find a predetermined genetic marker that signifies a male... a resource not many have readily available.

 

[MelloYello]

From the mid to the late 70's, most Columbian or Mexican I was getting would produce over 90% females. Males were rare.
I am talking about the higher quality growers who pulled the males and did not compress their product.
Most of the seeds you got were not from a male/female union.
This "caldera" method would produce 90%+ results from most hermi derived seeds.
Which may be a basis for the original results

 

[habeeb]

I'm baked, but I don't under stand that ^ at all

good, it means you haven't lost it, and went the other way

"scientists" like garble because they can't connect with simplicity.. they think something "high level" must be complicated then.. so they go running themselves in an attempt to prove something which is lacking within them .. real knowledge.

and this can be seen in multiple ways:

steve irwin.. no formal education

jane goodall.. she got into her position BECAUSE she had no former knowledge





I'll tell you the true way to knowledge, as knowledge is not hidden, it doesn't require a microscope and fancy equipment to be known.. haha

observation and time. that's it folks.

 

[MiMedGuy]

Silver Skunk tester seed lineup.

 

[SG1]

I started the seed trial to gain personal knowledge and pass on unbiased results to everyone interested.
I have no motivations other than to gain knowledge.

Take my 30 seed run at 70% and compare it to over a hundred seeds of the same Hybrid line.
Over 100 of these same seeds were popped without selection and ran a male percentage of 55%.

What was my motivations?
Money? - NO
Fame? - hell NO
Piss off a troll - definitely NOT.

My motivation was to just lower the presence of males in my pheno hunts, not eliminate them 100%.
Though 100% would have been great, those expectations were unreal and not expected.

Seems that to some, science and experimentation has to be black or white, all or nothing.
In reality, we live in a world of percentages, with improvements made in any field with small steps.

If you pop 100's of seeds a year as I do, isn't an extra 30% more females a good step?
To me, absolutely!
To some others, meaningless.

For those running their own trials, good for you, and your efforts.
First hand knowledge trumps all, whether the results were good or bad.
This separates hearsay from fact.

 

[Tokesy]

Thus far, with 20-30 growers, at varying levels and sizes.... selecting seed based off the caldera, we have had 80-90% accuracy in selecting the sex of a plant off of visual inspection of the seed alone.

Any actual documentation of this? Or just word of mouth???

Do you have supporting material or cited references as to who tested this and their results? I would certainly be interested in actual scientific reports or findings....


View Image

LOL do you??? So you're asking for peer reviewed "scientific reports" disproving a random chart from an unknown source....

Tineye had a few results.... personally, I don't really know or care the source.... I'm only interested in testing the efficacy of an unknown chart that has been dismissed at face value.... what I can say is that my ratio of females/seeds popped has risen sharpish...

Funny stuff bro...

 

[Spider Crab]

I have to agree with most of the people here and not chimera........

If it only gives ~70% females, that is better than 50%, even if we aren't sure why, isn't it?

It isn't good enough to make a 'law' from but it might be good enough as a general 'rule of thumb', which, i think, is what most people in here are interested in.

I'm interested to hear the results of more testing.

 

[siftedunity]

I started the seed trial to gain personal knowledge and pass on unbiased results to everyone interested.
I have no motivations other than to gain knowledge.

Take my 30 seed run at 70% and compare it to over a hundred seeds of the same Hybrid line.
Over 100 of these same seeds were popped without selection and ran a male percentage of 55%.

What was my motivations?
Money? - NO
Fame? - hell NO
Piss off a troll - definitely NOT.

My motivation was to just lower the presence of males in my pheno hunts, not eliminate them 100%.
Though 100% would have been great, those expectations were unreal and not expected.

Seems that to some, science and experimentation has to be black or white, all or nothing.
In reality, we live in a world of percentages, with improvements made in any field with small steps.

If you pop 100's of seeds a year as I do, isn't an extra 30% more females a good step?
To me, absolutely!
To some others, meaningless.

For those running their own trials, good for you, and your efforts.
First hand knowledge trumps all, whether the results were good or bad.
This separates hearsay from fact.

how do you know its 30% when you don't pop the seeds which look like males? you might actually be decreasing it but not even know lol

 

[siftedunity]

to say that a plant would produce different sex seeds with different dimensions would indicate that evolution had for some reason favoured that characteristic.

 

[siftedunity]

which doesn't seem likely.

 

[EsterEssence]

I am starting some soon. After re reading the chart it say's that female seeds are round and will roll, however the pics show lopsided seeds as female...

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

You could probably solve this issue pretty quick by just looking at a bunch of feminized seeds.

I just picked out 8 regular seeds to germ and only selected the ones with the best looking caldera, it will be interesting to see how many females I get.

 

[Agaricus]

good, it means you haven't lost it, and went the other way

"scientists" like garble because they can't connect with simplicity.. they think something "high level" must be complicated then.. so they go running themselves in an attempt to prove something which is lacking within them .. real knowledge.

and this can be seen in multiple ways:

steve irwin.. no formal education

jane goodall.. she got into her position BECAUSE she had no former knowledge

I'll tell you the true way to knowledge, as knowledge is not hidden, it doesn't require a microscope and fancy equipment to be known.. haha

observation and time. that's it folks.

I really hope you're joking

 

[Seaf0ur]

the purpose of this thread is to TEST this theory... not debate about it. I'm looking for tests... not discouragement... If yer not actually popping seeds, then I don't really know why you're in this thread...

 

[trichrider]

I began examining calderas for roundness and discovered I was looking at feminized seedlot.

they were 100% female...curious.

isn't the shape sorta subjective? 30% might have been observed as round...