Calcium/Ph/Overfed/Rootbound???

[blaze361]

Welp, I've been giving them full fertilizing lately. I've only given them one dose of fresh water since starting this thread. So far I have yet to burn them. I've fed them as high as 1300ppm at this point. After all the flushing I was doing, thinking I had a nutrient lockout, they are pretty hungry! Growth is much better than before as well.

I did find a new problem which I think is the actual source of the deficiencies. The dreaded root aphids!

Here is one under a 30x loupe.

I can drum up at least 5 flyers from each pot. There of quite a few young crawling around my dirt as well. At the same time I discovered I have springtails too! Very confusing to differentiate them but I believe identified them both in my soil.

I kept seeing a few of these guys flying about thinking they were gnats. I've used several batches of gnatrol to rid them which usual works wonders. Not this time though. Makes sense since apparently they weren't gnats at all.

I've been reading this thread since discovering them. I've come to the conclusion that I need to be more sanitary with my life. I will try getting rid of them by applying Imidacloprid in my veggies and very early flowers and Botanigard on my mid-late flowers. Any thoughts are welcomed!

 

[Polygon]

^^^
That does look like a fungus gnat more than the species of winged RA's I've seen personally. Looks like a young fungus gnat, thus the clear-ish body and lacks the pointed and elongated rainbow-shimmer wings. The head looks very much like a FG. Try to take a look at how many legs the flyers have with some clear tape and a 60x-100x scope, that will give you a 100% confirmation of what it is.

The reason Gnatrol may not be working is that the generations that survived the gnatrol may be gaining a tolerance and adapting to it - if it is fungus gnats

What I did to kill FG's in my veg tent. Make up a top dressing of EWC, karanja/neem meal, crustacean meal and kelp. just a sprinkle of each in a light dressing of EWC (1"-1.5") and then covered that in a barley hay mulch. BOOM, no more FG's. The crustacean meal when broken down via enzymes (chitinase) that degrades chitin, a polysaccharide that has properties known to control insect populations among other things for human and plant benefits. Couple this with neem/karanja (no need for explaination there) and EWC's ability to repel insects and you're golden, plus adding readily available calcium, nitrogen, potash, micro-life and many other trace minerals with the kelp and others.

If it's RA's. I'd start over I've watched a man lose his hair trying to rid his area of them, it's no fun.

 

[blaze361]

Polygon has me reconsidering my conclusion of the dreaded root aphids. The picture does look similar to other pictures of gnats. I may have been to hasty on my revelation.

Although after careful inspection, I have identified no less than three bugs in my soil. I can 100% say for sure that two of them are gnat larva and springtails. I could not identify the third and possibly fourth. The third is smaller than the adult springtails white in appearance with a bulbous body. I'm thinking what I saw was a young Hypoaspis Miles predator mite. That's being optimistic. Another side of me suspects they are some sort of micro root aphid. The fourth was similar to the springtails in size and shape with an elongated body. I saw two quickly scurry around in a saucer going about their business, which seemed more or less like clean up. One was a little bigger than the biggest adult springtail I've seen, and the other a bit smaller than an adult springtail. They did not jump nor have the same crawl a springtail has. I have no idea about this one.

Either way, I plan on taking drastic measures to this infestation, beneficial bugs or not. I feel like they are the cause of these deficiencies by way of harm to the roots or introduction of pathogens.
I have tried to flush and take nutrients more slowly thinking I had a calcium deficiency due to lock out. My ph was on point and ppm's low. This didn't seem to help.
Now at the advice I've been given by the good people of this forum, I have been feeding like crazy. Worked my way up from ~500ppm to 1300ppm over the past few weeks. They really seemed to respond well. No drastic signs of burn whatsoever.
I started with reverse osmosis water, add hydrogaurd, then Calmag to 350-400ppm. I then added Maxibloom powder and worked up from 800 to 1300ppm
At a ~1500ppm run off I just gave them their first fresh water feeding on the 13th. The problem still persist though.

For the bugs, I have given my 2 oldest tables Azamax at .06%/gal and sprayed Botanigard ES WP at 1lb/gal to all three on the 13th.

The problem seems to set in about one week into flowering

Here is the newest table of Island 2 days into flowering

 

[blaze361]

2nd table of Dj Short's Blueberry now 27 days into flowering

 

[blaze361]

Third table of Island 41 days into flowering

Lizardbro helping keep the gnat problem under control.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

never had RA, but i know Fungus Gnats. that looks like a fungus gnat. fucking c*nts. i've managed to germ 5 out of 100-200 of my last seeds because fungus gnat larvae and or nematodes. they fucking eat the embryo soon as it emerges from the shell. sometimes before it even cracks. they eat roots for a living. easiest way to get rid of fungus gnats since you have deeply planted roots in your pots. just put an inch of perlite, sand, rocks. whatever on top of the soil. they lay their eggs in th top inch of soil and they need moisture. keeping the top of the soil dry = no more gnats. they should be all gone in 7 days- 14 days. their life cycle is like 10 days. you can also get mosquito dunks aka BTi and use that. but the real easy cure is to dry the top layer and let em die.

 

[Granger2]

Looks like Thrips. If the flyers don't have the 2 tailpipes on their ass end, it's not RAs. This is true for all stages of RA. For Thrips, use 2 sprays and 2 soil drenches of Spinosad, and done. The marred leaves will not heal. Look for healthy new growth. This will likely take care of the other pests. Don't ruin your crop with Imidichloprid. Search the RA thread for Eclipsefour20 posts and use his remedy if you're not trying to be organic about it. I would skip the first half of the posts in that thread except for the ID photos on the first page or 2. Good luck. -granger

 

[Cat Jockey]

I don't know where you are at with it all, but make sure to inspect for bugs. The spots on the leaves can come from multiple things, bugs being one of them and pics on the net making it difficult to always tell for certain.

You have other issues, however. It is in regard to your nutrient regime, specifically the pH range you are using with GH Flora (and also adding Cal/Mag to it - NOT needed with GH Flora and RO water), and the ratios of nutrients you are making available in the solution.

What clearly indicates this is the shape of your malformed leaves:





The wrong pH (you are starting too high) and the wrong proportions of nutrients in the root zone are the causes of this. And yes, a plant in this condition limits the quantity and quality you can pull out of your particular growroom and system.

 

[Unclecrash]

If your still using hydrogaurd I use it in coco @2ml gallon. Youmight want to reseach it on soil as I have read a post back a while ago that a guy said it wasn't enough @ 2ml a gal in dirt that he uses 5ml ,but I cannot find it. I use it and it has saved my dwc bucket when it started getting root rot.

 

[blaze361]

I don't know where you are at with it all, but make sure to inspect for bugs. The spots on the leaves can come from multiple things, bugs being one of them and pics on the net making it difficult to always tell for certain.

You have other issues, however. It is in regard to your nutrient regime, specifically the pH range you are using with GH Flora (and also adding Cal/Mag to it - NOT needed with GH Flora and RO water), and the ratios of nutrients you are making available in the solution.

What clearly indicates this is the shape of your malformed leaves:

View attachment 317604

View attachment 317603

The wrong pH (you are starting too high) and the wrong proportions of nutrients in the root zone are the causes of this. And yes, a plant in this condition limits the quantity and quality you can pull out of your particular growroom and system.

I know for certain the damage you see is not directly from bugs. Any and all bugs are in the soil besides the flying gnats. After trying to flush out the problem with fresh water to no avail, I've been using Calmag and GH's Maxibloom; and I've been supplementing with hydrogaurd and just recently hygrozyme. I always Ph to 6.2. My run off usually comes out about 6.0.

So what should I ph to before watering? I always did 5.8 in hydro, but I always thought soil was supposed to be a bit higher.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

i ph my res between 6.0 and 6.5 and let it drift. the flying fungus gnats aren't the problem. it's the ones (larvae) you don't see in the soil that are killing your plants. if you have a potato or some other starchy root, cut a piece and embed it in the soil like half an inch. leave it for about 24-36 hours and then pluck it out and hold it to the light. if you see little maggot things crawling in there, thats what's eating your roots. you can keep doing the potato trick in conjunction with whatever else you decide to try. but the most effective method is to not have gnats at all and just keep the top 1/2 inch from staying too wet. add a layer of mulch on the top.

 

[Cat Jockey]

I know for certain the damage you see is not directly from bugs. Any and all bugs are in the soil besides the flying gnats. After trying to flush out the problem with fresh water to no avail, I've been using Calmag and GH's Maxibloom; and I've been supplementing with hydrogaurd and just recently hygrozyme. I always Ph to 6.2. My run off usually comes out about 6.0.

So what should I ph to before watering? I always did 5.8 in hydro, but I always thought soil was supposed to be a bit higher.

I mentioned dbl checking for bugs because just glancing at the pics, that is a large number of 'spots', and a pretty severe display of a Ca def. Looking more at the pics, obvious P def are present, too. But, there is a bigger issue, of which those are only visible symptoms.

You don't have a nutrient deficient nute regime (if you're using GH's recommended dosages), you have a serious rootzone issue, revolving around pH and nutrient ratios, etc.

5.8 in hydro is NOT the optimal range. But, I know why so many weed farmers think it is. It has to do with a specific chart that has been circulating the forums for 10+ years. Additionally, I don't know what the exact make up of Happy Frog is, but most people are using peat/perlite/vermiculite mixes, which is NOT soil. That is an important distinction because soil has clay and sand in it, affecting the ionic exchange stuff at the roots - which is why soil needs a higher pH. On top of that, Happy Frog has organic nutes (think time-release) that are coming out, to which you are adding more stuff, making things a bit complicated in the rootzone.

Scroll down to the last part I quoted and responded to and where I posted a chart. That guy had posted St0ney's chart, citing it as where he (and THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON EVERY WEED FORUM - this fuckin' chart is endemic) got his info as to what the proper pH range for weed in soil and hydro was.

Some background about St0ney's Fuckin' Blue Chart

I've run a lot of GH Flora. I used to mix up hundreds of gallons of nute solution a week using it. With GH Flora, you start your res around 5.1-5.3, and let it run up to around 6.0-6.2, and then dump it and start fresh. NO Cal/Mag, even with RO water. NONE.

Here's the thing. What I have to say about some of this stuff runs counter to 'mainstream'. Explaining how much of this 'mainstream' stuff around weed growing became that way makes me sound like an arrogant douche, lol. But, my only goal is to spread info and knowledge, not be an arrogant douche.

I pointed out the malformed leaves because that tells me where your Ca def, etc., is coming from. I also know that plants that have been through the stress I see in them will have a reduced harvest, both in quality and quantity.

I don't know you, but I would prefer your next harvest to be better. 'Your World' would be a better place. Who the hell doesn't want to maximize their harvests?

So, I'm not trying to be dick here. Aside from fungas gnats, you have an overriding issue that is costing you at harvest time - I'm just seeing if I can help ya with that is all.

Let me show you some plants that were fertilized with GH 3-Part, just like yours. With NO Cal/Mag and at a starting pH of around 5.2:





You are looking at plants in Ebb & Flow trays, Peat/Perlite/Vermiculite (what most weed growers use and call 'dirt'), and a 24 site RDWC.

Oh yea. Those are all different strains. Even in the RDWC - 24 different strains on ONE nutrient solution with a starting pH of 5.2 (RDWC is 'supposed' to be in the 5.8 range, too) with NO nutrient issues. Even the PPV in Homer buckets, what people call 'dirt' and incorrectly treat like soil.

All those plants are on Gh 3-Part. No Cal/Mag and using the CORRECT pH range, which is 5.1-5.3 - 6.0-6.2, or so. Yes, you can grow weed outside of the OPTIMAL range I suggest, but there is a reason it is called OPTIMAL ...

Incidentally, in the last pic, that plant is probably 6-7 years old. Maybe older. It was kept in a 6" pot under a CFL as a Bonsai Mom for years before I grew it out to that size. Where you see the two branches coming off the mainstem near the soil and then curving up like a 'U, there were two more branches like that - one coming towards you and one going the other way, but they were lost to fungas gnats. Because they were mothers, I wasn't cycling the medium every 3 months, so after many months, those fuckers got out of control and fucked up some plants. Those yellow sticky cards actually help, for as simple as they are - stock up on those to help fight the battle.

I'm not trying to take over your thread or be a dick. I am trying to help you, or anyone reading this, have bigger shit eatin' grins on their faces at harvest time. So, I won't post anymore in this thread, as I tend to get in back and forths with people, as I challenge some of their deeply held beliefs (and handed out as 'expert' advice on the forums - meaning I am challenging their 'pride' because they have handed out what I call incorrect advice, sometimes for years, on the forums) about weed growing. However, if you want to chat more about the nutirent regime I use with GH 3 -Part, you (or anyone reading this post) are free to PM me about it all.

Toodles ...

 

[Dready_jake]

I mentioned dbl checking for bugs because just glancing at the pics, that is a large number of 'spots', and a pretty severe display of a Ca def. Looking more at the pics, obvious P def are present, too. But, there is a bigger issue, of which those are only visible symptoms.

You don't have a nutrient deficient nute regime (if you're using GH's recommended dosages), you have a serious rootzone issue, revolving around pH and nutrient ratios, etc.

5.8 in hydro is NOT the optimal range. But, I know why so many weed farmers think it is. It has to do with a specific chart that has been circulating the forums for 10+ years. Additionally, I don't know what the exact make up of Happy Frog is, but most people are using peat/perlite/vermiculite mixes, which is NOT soil. That is an important distinction because soil has clay and sand in it, affecting the ionic exchange stuff at the roots - which is why soil needs a higher pH. On top of that, Happy Frog has organic nutes (think time-release) that are coming out, to which you are adding more stuff, making things a bit complicated in the rootzone.

Scroll down to the last part I quoted and responded to and where I posted a chart. That guy had posted St0ney's chart, citing it as where he (and THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON EVERY WEED FORUM - this fuckin' chart is endemic) got his info as to what the proper pH range for weed in soil and hydro was.

Some background about St0ney's Fuckin' Blue Chart

I've run a lot of GH Flora. I used to mix up hundreds of gallons of nute solution a week using it. With GH Flora, you start your res around 5.1-5.3, and let it run up to around 6.0-6.2, and then dump it and start fresh. NO Cal/Mag, even with RO water. NONE.

Here's the thing. What I have to say about some of this stuff runs counter to 'mainstream'. Explaining how much of this 'mainstream' stuff around weed growing became that way makes me sound like an arrogant douche, lol. But, my only goal is to spread info and knowledge, not be an arrogant douche.

I pointed out the malformed leaves because that tells me where your Ca def, etc., is coming from. I also know that plants that have been through the stress I see in them will have a reduced harvest, both in quality and quantity.

I don't know you, but I would prefer your next harvest to be better. 'Your World' would be a better place. Who the hell doesn't want to maximize their harvests?

So, I'm not trying to be dick here. Aside from fungas gnats, you have an overriding issue that is costing you at harvest time - I'm just seeing if I can help ya with that is all.

Let me show you some plants that were fertilized with GH 3-Part, just like yours. With NO Cal/Mag and at a starting pH of around 5.2:

View attachment 317840 View attachment 317839
View attachment 317843 View attachment 317838
View attachment 317842 View attachment 317841

You are looking at plants in Ebb & Flow trays, Peat/Perlite/Vermiculite (what most weed growers use and call 'dirt'), and a 24 site RDWC.

Oh yea. Those are all different strains. Even in the RDWC - 24 different strains on ONE nutrient solution with a starting pH of 5.2 (RDWC is 'supposed' to be in the 5.8 range, too) with NO nutrient issues. Even the PPV in Homer buckets, what people call 'dirt' and incorrectly treat like soil.

All those plants are on Gh 3-Part. No Cal/Mag and using the CORRECT pH range, which is 5.1-5.3 - 6.0-6.2, or so. Yes, you can grow weed outside of the OPTIMAL range I suggest, but there is a reason it is called OPTIMAL ...

Incidentally, in the last pic, that plant is probably 6-7 years old. Maybe older. It was kept in a 6" pot under a CFL as a Bonsai Mom for years before I grew it out to that size. Where you see the two branches coming off the mainstem near the soil and then curving up like a 'U, there were two more branches like that - one coming towards you and one going the other way, but they were lost to fungas gnats. Because they were mothers, I wasn't cycling the medium every 3 months, so after many months, those fuckers got out of control and fucked up some plants. Those yellow sticky cards actually help, for as simple as they are - stock up on those to help fight the battle.

I'm not trying to take over your thread or be a dick. I am trying to help you, or anyone reading this, have bigger shit eatin' grins on their faces at harvest time. So, I won't post anymore in this thread, as I tend to get in back and forths with people, as I challenge some of their deeply held beliefs (and handed out as 'expert' advice on the forums - meaning I am challenging their 'pride' because they have handed out what I call incorrect advice, sometimes for years, on the forums) about weed growing. However, if you want to chat more about the nutirent regime I use with GH 3 -Part, you (or anyone reading this post) are free to PM me about it all.

Toodles ...

Nature of this industry unfortunately! Can't tell anyone they're wrong without blowback lol gotta let them figure it out sometimes

 

[stihgnobevoli]

there's nothing wrong with he chart imho. people just overestimate the actual requirements in "hard limits" that plants need. swinging the ph one way or another will help with more of the 'ions' (using some science type slang on ya's) of a particular element being released. this will play in more once you have figured out overall what the plant likes to eat. the bigger issue i've observed is people just don't know what a happy plant looks like. it's not just a general "dark green" like most people seem to be shooting for.

your plants are fantastic btw. do you recirculate the runoff from the plants in the 5 gallon buckets too? how do you deal with the inconsistencies in the amount of salt coming back from the various sized containers? does it all equal out in the end because you use the same fresh media starting from the beginning of each run?

 

[blaze361]

I'm not trying to take over your thread or be a dick. I am trying to help you, or anyone reading this, have bigger shit eatin' grins on their faces at harvest time. So, I won't post anymore in this thread, as I tend to get in back and forths with people, as I challenge some of their deeply held beliefs (and handed out as 'expert' advice on the forums - meaning I am challenging their 'pride' because they have handed out what I call incorrect advice, sometimes for years, on the forums) about weed growing. However, if you want to chat more about the nutirent regime I use with GH 3 -Part, you (or anyone reading this post) are free to PM me about it all.

Please, nobody stop posting. I read every post thoroughly and take into consideration every piece of advice. I'm having a very hard time pin pointing the cause of this deficiency. I've done hydro for 5+ years so happy frog is not my forte.

The weird thing is I didn't start seeing the deficiencies until after a few harvests of using happy frog. Everything I've done has not worked correct it though: More nutes, less nutes, different nutes, change water, More nutes again. I'm now vehemently treating for bugs hoping that will help clear up the problem. I used Azamax(7%), BTI(4g/gal), and Botanigard(1lb rate) on my older flowers. For my newest flowering table and mothers/transplants I used BTI, Botanigard, and predatory nematodes.

So I shouldn't consider Happy Frog soil? What ph and ppm should I be at with Happy Frog?

 

[Daddysdank]

So we're you able to correct your problem after treating for bugs??

 

[blaze361]

So we're you able to correct your problem after treating for bugs??

Even after treating for bugs I was not able to correct my problem. I was able to get the fungus gnat population to obscure numbers, but nothing cleared up my mysterious nutrient deficiency in soil.

I suspected that the combination of Happy Frog soil and GH flora nutes were not able to work for me. Somehow I never got the formula right. Ultimately I switched to coco coir using H3ad's modified lucas formula. This works very well for me now.

I still have to treat for gnats and I still have to let things thoroughly dry out to combat the everlasting war with root rot, but I'm finally back to getting decent consistent harvests.