??Cal/Mag, Potassium def, overdose, overwaterin??

[blackfin]

medium: "Expert Garden Soil" peat based
1tbs/gal
bone, blood, and chicken manure (epsoma)

i usually use kelp in the mix instead of chicken manure... a buddy in chat said the blood and chicken manure has burt them (to much N).... they've been in flower 6days now.... are the salvageable or should i start over.... i have clones rooting, 4rooted, 2rooting... and plenty more to cut

i thought that it was potassium def so i folar fed with seaweed 4days ago... then 2days ago i water 100ml/plant, of GH 1ml micro, 2ml bloom/gal pH'd to 6.3... did this cus it has everything

medium pH: 6.7
water pH:6.2-6.5
temp: 80-85
pot size: 2gal, trans'd 2 days before flower from 2qt pots













Help,
bf

 

[sproutco]

Ph is too high. 5.6 to 6.2 is good for peat based soils. Here is how to test soil ph. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=32760 I think I would pull the plants out of the amended soil and put them into new soil without added nutrients. Shake the old soil off the roots. New soil should have dolomite lime added to supply calcium and magnesium unless you plan on adding it to your fert water. Add nutrients in the water and don't foliar feed. You should adjust the ph of your fert. water after mixing. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31294&highlight=sulfuric You might want to go back to vegetating them for about 3 weeks to increase their size. There kinda small and beat up. I don't know how they would react.

 

[blackfin]

thanks, i'll veg some more and see if i can get it under control... i do add fert then pH the water... i use apple cider viniger a pH down, never had to use up, and only have to use 1ml/gal....

i think i'll wait for more advise

 

[Guest]

are the holes in those bags u use as pots 1 inch from the bottom? I cant really tell from the picture but water sitting in the bottom of those bags can cause problems. Just a thought, hope everything works out!

 

[blackfin]

yea, but there's also holes on the bottom.... i just opened up the room and the plants aren't getting worse... i'll flush once they've been under the light a couple hours....

i've always been told 6.2-6.5 is a good range for the water... i didn't add as much lime to the mix as i usually do, only 1/8cup per 1ft3... ya'll think that could be the prob, cus the GH flora and micro combo has a good about of cal and mag, hence the slowing prgression i'm now observing

thanks for the help, keep it comin

 

[DrawoH]

looks burned up,,, the soil looks to be to hot,, as in to much ppm

 

[sproutco]

i didn't add as much lime to the mix as i usually do, only 1/8cup per 1ft3...

Thats really a good rate of lime to try. That would be about 5 pounds per 27 cubic feet (1 yard). If there is cal/mag in your fert., you might try less lime or none at all and depend on the water adjusted ph to act like lime for the soil. Best thing is to add the lime at the same rate you've choosen to a small amount of soil. Wet. Wait a week. Test ph. Then add more if needed or throw out that try and do it again at a lower rate. You will have to experiment with whatever soil your using. 5.6-6.2 ph is what your aiming for. I have used 2/5 of the lime your using(1/4 cup) and added cal/mag in the water. This gave my soilless mix an initial ph of 5.6. The soil ph will "chase" your water/fert ph.

You want be able to really flush the soil out of nutrients that you added. Better to just scrap the amended soil and repot with new unamended soil. Wait some time using just straight water. Then, add ferts to your water. I think the plants are burning like mentioned above.

 

[blackfin]

welcome back draw

well damn... thanks for the advise, i think they're burnt too... fuckin chicken manure... i'll scrap the soil and make up some new stuff, when the kelp gets here tuesday or wensday...

the first couple grows i ever did were great, with 1tbl/gal of bone blood and kelp... then i started experimenting ,because i didn't have any kelp, that's why i've gone through 2 grows thinking i had potassium def... when it was actually burn from the chicken poo....

i'll update once they're in the new soil

thanks everyone,
bf

 

[MynameStitch]

Ph is too high. 5.6 to 6.2 is good for peat based soils


wrong!! just because they have peat doesnt mean they have to have this ph

if its soiless yes but his mixture is not soiless, his ph is fine if hes testing the run off and getting that ph, see this is the perfect example of what im talking abotu with the advice you give sprout, i know you mean well, but you havnt grown cannabis at all, why come here and help out people who are gowing cannabis when you never even grew out a plant???? you cant regonize common stuff wrong with the plant because your basing all your information on different kinds of plants

the problem hes havging is your burning your plants

are you testing your run off and geting he ph? or how are you testing your ph black fin?

 

[DrawoH]

thanx blackfin,, long time no see br0,,, i used some shit that burnt up my plants overnight... it was horrible.... i find that mircle grow potting soil works great and u only need to add water for a month ofr 2,,,, just add nuits like faox farm grow big when you see some yelllowing begin,,,, the key is to get potting soil and not garden, or top soil..... peace blackfin,, i'll be seeing you around

 

[Verite]

I agree with stitch, I dont think I have ever heard anyone recommend 5.6ph for anything soil based.

Probably in the same vein of recommending sulfuric or battery acid to use for ph down.

Im begining to wonder where that horticultural degree comes from sproutco?

 

[sproutco]

I agree with stitch, I dont think I have ever heard anyone recommend 5.6ph for anything soil based.

Probably in the same vein of recommending sulfuric or battery acid to use for ph down.

Im begining to wonder where that horticultural degree comes from sproutco?

It says expert soil and then he says its peat based. I would only have to guess its soilless mix. Soilless mix has become almost the standard today because of all its advantages like lightweight, etc... at garden centers. Sulfuric acid is the prefered acid for ph adjustment. See Hydroponics: a practical guide for the soilless grower by Benton Jones isbn 1-884015-32-8 Very interesting. May be able to get it a your public library. As to where my degree comes from its a big school in the U.S. I love you Verite!

 

[blackfin]

lol... what an honor the great Verlite and Stitch posted in my thread

now to clear the confusion it's proper name is "Expert Gardener Potting Soil" it is peat based... sorry , it's good stuff i just added chicken poo, which should be composted a year

i've always kept my water pH at 6.2-6.5... if it gets any lower than 6.1 the growth tips start to yellow... acting like a iron def

thanks everyone,
bf

 

[Verite]

Much like your advice I beg to differ. If I had to make an educated guess I would put the percentages around 80+% of all MJ grows being soil since outdoor weed doesnt have any reason not to use soil and using anything else cost prohibitive. Then I imagine hydro has at least 15+% of the entire market. My guess for exclusive soiless grows would be somewhere in the 5% or lower bracket. Im also not sure if I have ever heard a grower talk about medium weight when deciding on a medium to choose for growing.

You could always conduct a poll and see but Im willing to bet the above figures arent far off.

Sulfuric acid as a preferred method of ph management is entirely your opinion and you have yet to offer any kind of science reasoning to back it up.

I have already mentioned it more than once the desired difference between phosphate and sulfur ph adjustment and you keep ignoring it as if it doesnt quite click.

You think plants can handle your opinionated amounts of sulfur yet you have zero basis in which to make this claim? Have you tried it and documented your growing results? If you havent or havent even seen the results of your professed opinion then why is anyone else supposed to take you for your educated word?

How come when I mention that phosphates are a primary plant element thats highly immobile in the soil and sulfur is a secondary element thats highly mobile in the soil [and more likely to be absorbed by the plant] and using too much of a secondary element is more likely to cause problems than a primary, you have no response to this?

Surely your hort education has the capacity to answer the question as to why a secondary mobile element has a preference to be used over a primary immobile element for ph adjustment?

I like you too sproutco but sooner or later even a hort degree doesnt compare to hardcore experience.

p.s. the biggest school in the US is DeVry Institutes

 

[Verite]

Didnt mean to hijack blackfin.

Imo chick poo is always been a bit too hot for MJ use. Theres better organic ferts for MJ than chicken doodoo.

 

[sproutco]

How come when I mention that phosphates are a primary plant element thats highly immobile in the soil and sulfur is a secondary element thats highly mobile in the soil [and more likely to be absorbed by the plant] and using too much of a secondary element is more likely to cause problems than a primary, you have no response to this?

Mobile in the soil means it would leach or wash out of the soil with every watering. Phosphorus "hangs around" and builds up in the soil.

 

[Verite]

Sorry, guess again. Mobility referrs to how available it is to the plant as anything can be leeched out.

http://www.farmtested.com/56.html

 

[sproutco]

http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/publications/Soilfacts/AG-439-15/

The Role of Sulfur in Plant Nutrition
Plants require as much sulfur as phosphorus, one of the elements usually considered a major plant nutrient. Sulfur is found in cystine, cysteine, and methionine, amino acids that make up plant proteins. It activates certain enzyme systems and is a component of some vitamins (vitamin A). Sulfur is found in mustard oil glycosides, which impart characteristic odors and flavors to such plants as mustard, onions, and garlic. Sulfur fertilization has also been shown to increase the seed oil content of crops such as soybeans and flax. Plant and animal scientists have shown that plant tissue should contain one part sulfur for every 15 to 20 parts nitrogen for optimum growth and production of high-quality animal feeds. If the ratio is much greater than 15 to 1, crops may benefit from sulfur fertilization.



Soil-Sulfur Reactions
Like nitrogen, sulfur is a mobile nutrient that may move rapidly downward through the soil, especially through sandy surface layers. In humid regions (North Carolina and the southeastern United States) most of the sulfur in the surface soil is associated with organic matter. Soluble sulfates (SO42-) seldom accumulate in the plow layer because they are leached into the B horizon. Much of this sulfate probably comes from past applications of fertilizers that contain sulfur. Sulfur often accumulates in the subsoil where soluble sulfates are absorbed by iron and aluminum oxides. Sulfur accumulation rises as subsoil acidity increases. If plant roots grow into the B horizon (subsoil), the plants use this sulfate; therefore, they can get an adequate amount if this accumulation occurs in the top 17 to 20 inches of soil.

Sulfur deficiencies are less frequent in high-organic-matter soils because the sulfur mineralizes from the organic matter. However, under intensive crop production, the breakdown of organic matter and subsequent release of sulfur may not be rapid enough to meet the increased demands prompted by high yields....

 

[Verite]

Plants require as much sulfur as phosphorus,

Do you have any experience growing weed?

Besdies your arguement is flawed when the action we desire from a soil ph adjustment is not mobility in the medium.

Its also flawed when you consider that once the sulfur gets to the plant it becomes immobile and stays there and accumulates.

I would be willing to bet your final end product tastes more like match heads than it does weed.

 

[sproutco]

I would be willing to bet your final end product tastes more like match heads than it does weed.

Its not uncommon for tobacco growers to use potassium sulfate because tobacco is sensitive to chloride. http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/Organic/tap/Potassiumsulfate.pdf