C02 and Carbon Scrubbers

[Dreamscape]

Hola amigos

After a rough situation with the "to be" grow room i've decided to skip all the venting of intake and outake air ... Instead I will be going C02.

However - I already purchased a huge Mountain Air carbon filter and figured it couldn't hurt to put it to use in the flowering room ... The question I have is if I set up the Carbon filter on the floor with a vortex sucking air through the filter , NOT hooked up to any vents just basically cleaning and recirculating the air would this effect C02 ??

Also , since I'll be using a window A/C and a Dehumidifier does anyone have any recommendations for how I should attempt to arrange my equipment in respect to the garden ...


With those dimensions would it be better to go with Tanks or a propane , Natural gas burner ??

Also for the A/C I was considering just building a frame to set it up inside the room as opposed to having the ass end sitting outside where smell / light could leak out ...

I'll be running 24-28 plants under 4 aircooled 600w HPS using digiballasts.

Thanks for the help as always friends
~Dream

 

[Guest]

Just use the window,it recirculates the air inside the room no smell escapes unless your AC has an outdoor air vent and you open it.Same with a scrubber,just hang it in the room and it will recirculate.I've never used a tank only propane burner but whatever you decide get a co2 controller,a cap PPM3 is cheapest.If you use a burner dont get a cyclestat timer with it,it burns according to room size only and doesnt recognise foliage or ambient co2 levels like a controller.

 

[Dreamscape]

Just use the window,it recirculates the air inside the room no smell escapes unless your AC has an outdoor air vent and you open it.

Whats up Bob ... Thanks for the reply ...

now you're 100% SURE that a window A/C is not a security issue with light and smell !?? ... i'm a paranoid prick so I just want to make sure you know

And as far as this "outdoor air vent and you open it." goes ... do you mean like a little vent Door type of thing on the back of the A/C ?

thanks

 

[MTF-Sandman]

The scrubber won't mess with the CO2 levels...

Window units don't leak light or odors normally...so that shouldn't be a concern.

Burners and bottles both have advantages and disadvantages, so you might wanna think about it long term...

Burners are more efficient per $ of fuel vs. bottles (around 1500btu's per hour per 3cu/ft of CO2)
Burners produce heat and moisture as a by product of combustion
Propane is super easy to get refilled anonymously - CO2 CAN be a hassle if you don't live near a large city. (I had to drive 40 miles to find a place with a CO2 pump to fill my 50lb tanks without giving me shit over the owner of the bottle)

By all means, drop the coin on a controller like Bob recommended...I'm kicking myself for not doing it a while back.

As far as placement, just try to create a good airflow through the room. I put my burner/bottle release point on 1 end with a 16" oscillating fan under it and the scrubber on the other of the room. The output from the scrubber blows the air back around to the release point making sure that the air stays nicely mixed.

Another note - if you're using a burner, don't bother getting a fuzzy logic controller...you'll just end up disabling the fuzzy logic part to keep the burner from kicking on/off rapidly.

NG is a slightly more efficient fuel vs. propane...so if you've got it already plumbed into your house, that could effect your decision.

 

[Dreamscape]

You know whats kind of funny sandman , I have such respect for your knowledge and clear to the point yet still fully informative posting style, one of the reasons I gave it the ol "fuck it , i'll seal my room" is because for sometime now i've seen you mentioning your room was sealed and you dont have to worry about smell so much , ect ect ... Just a random thought

On another note - any recommendations for a SAFE and effecient window A/C ? I'm thinking of going with a blue Ox burner but not sure about the controller , thoughts ?

thanks as always
~ Dream

 

[Guest]

Depends on how much you want to spend,the cap ppm 3 is between 3 and 5 hundred dollars and is least expensive.Theres a variety mof more expensive controllers that can do a lot more.

 

[Dreamscape]

well basically all i'm looking for is something to monitor and then shut off/ turn on if the levels get to extreme either way ... i'm also thinking of grabbing the CAP Gen2 burner as opposed to the blue ox considering price and all ... Although my room is roughly 11x9 and it says the Gen2 is good for UP TO 30x30 ... i'm thinking go bigger in case I expand in the future ... I mean this thing isn't going to blow up or kill me in my sleep right haha ... ?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I'd go with a Gen1e for a 9x9...I believe the Gen2 comes with 5 burners already installed, so it might overshoot your room and lead to wasted CO2/fuel. The gen1 series come with 1 and are upgradeable to 4, so it can put out up to 13 cu/ft of CO2 an hour which is ALOT of CO2.

I've heard great things about Blu Ox tho...just never tried one of em.

RE: controller - $350 is about the cheapest I've seen a real controller go for (PPM3)...but you can spend up to $800 or $900 if you want all kinds of crap built in with the controller (only additional feature that's worth a damn is humidity controller IMO). The PPM3 or a similar would be what I'd shop for personally...good quality, fair price, and accurate.

 

[Dreamscape]

With Cubic Ft. per hour of Co2 , what should I shoot for in a room that size ? Cause I think, THINK , that the Gen2 may actually only come with 1 or 2 burners already installed from what I was just recently reading and if thats the case i'd like to try and calculate how much I need VS. how much each additional burner would increase my cu. ft. of c02 each hour ...

EDIT : haha , you were right ...

Manufactured in the USA using AGA and/or UL listed components. Both models are expandable! This allows you to increase the unit`s capacity to produce CO2 simply by installing additional burners. Each burner adds approximately 3 cubic feet per hour.

C.A.P. GEN-1 comes standard with one burner, producing approximately 3 cubic feet per hour. You can add up to 3 additional burners, increasing capacity to approximately 13 cubic feet of CO2 per hour.

The GEN-2 comes standard with 5 burners, producing approximately 16 cubic feet of CO2 per hour. You can add up to 3 additional burners, increasing capacity to up to approximately 26 cubic feet of CO2 per hour.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

You'd need about 1 cu/ft to bring it up to 1500-1600, but that's starting from 300ppm. I really think a 2 burner Gen1 on a controller would be fine. It should give you ~5 minute burn times with a full room.

 

[THCV]

hi dreamscape. i have the blue-ox burner (actually called MegaGrowth now) and i am currently converting it to NG. All the propane tanks in and out of the house are a hassle, definitely go with NG if you can. Also, screw the cheap controller. I have the IGS Plug n Grow 061 CO2 controller, costs $550 but well worth it: auto high-temp shut-off and easy calibration are MUST HAVES in a co2 monitor/controller. I own 2 and they are great.

If you run the mountain air just to clean up the internal air, you will not have to worry much at all about the AC leaking; but everyone seems to agree with sandman that windowshakers don't exhaust air. I use portos so i don't know.

 

[Dreamscape]

@ Sandman - thanks as always brotha ...

@THCV - Hey hows it goin - i've read some of your posts , always informative )

Its funny you mention the "megagrowth" name because I was just looking on BG and saw all these megagrowth burners and i'm scratching my head in confusion ...

Have you ever used that cheaper C.A.P. controller or known someone who has ? Obviously if I start hearing negative testimony on it i'll steer clear for sure but money is a factor currently so i'll go with whats cheapest AND gets the job done , effectively.

thanks for dropping in

and yes ... the mountain air will be run just to clean up smell ... I bought it off BG and it said "works up to 3 years for rooms with up to 4000w in light" and I believe it was sandman that said that gauging the filter by light was next to junk as far as method BUT - I'm gong to assume that it is a bit over rated being its 6"x40" in size and its the moutain air "works up to 3 years" carbon filter in a room with only 24 plants and 2400w of light ... Plus i've got an 8" vortek i'm gonna hook up to it so i'm hoping it'll do the job proper ...

 

[THCV]

I have never used the CAP, but considered it. i remember reading on OG a guy that had a professional grade lab co2 meter (can't remember who) and he said the CAP was woefully inaccurate when he tested it. It looks cheap too. Yes, the IGS is a little more, but it is rock solid, accurate and has the exact features I must have: calibration and high-temp auto-shutoff. critical because the burners cause a lot of heat buildup, and when it is too much they have to be turned off *before* hitting the target PPM so that the plants don't cook.

 

[ThereIsHope]

I have been using the CAP PPM-3 CO2 monitor/controller and the thing is flawless. It works like a charm. It is connected to a CAP regulator/solenoid on a 50 pound CO2 tank.

I set the CAP PPM-3 controller at 1,500 PPM's and overshoots take it to 1,590 PPM's.

I basically set it and forget it.

 

[Dreamscape]

@ THCV - Wow ... I would've never thought they could raise temperatures THAT high ... What temp do you set your auto shut off at , and when it hits that temp what is the average co2 ppm level ?

 

[THCV]

if you have a decent sized room, then the co2 burner is a frikkin BBQ. The Megagrowth blasts hot air like it's its job. I set the off temp to 88, rarely trips unless it's going to be a really hot day (ie at the end of the light cycle, as the day is heating up), but it sure saves my ass when it does turn off under those conditions. If you are using CO2 tanks you def don't need that feature, but i would say with burners you must.

 

[Dreamscape]

I was reading in another thread and someone mentioned that the Blue Ox burners have some type of ducting or vent that connects to the top of the generator for venting the heat of the burners out ... ?? How does this work and does it work effectively ?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I was kinda curious about it as well...only way I could see it working without losing CO2 would be to have a heat exchanger in the unit.

 

[THCV]

it doesn't work. the unit is not sealed enough, so if you vent it, you vent the co2 out as well. not sure why they didn't do it right since they have been making them for years and it is otherwise very well made. I spoke with them and they said very few people use the air-cooling feature; stupid me, that was why i bought it, thanks for the marketing, assholes. But it really doesnt work. Sandman, it does have a heat exchanger panel that the air passes over, problem is it isn't sealed. But it is a good burner, puts out a shitload of co2 with no pilot light. Also, I just tried to have them convert it to NG from LP and was told I may as well just buy a new one instead!!! They refused to do the conversion. So fuck them--no website, bad customer service, poor design. Buy something else.

 

[Dreamscape]

Wow ... what a bunch of cock blowers ... A big "FUCK YOU" to "megagrowth" with your lame ass name "megagrowth , that will get the people buying !!!" ... dorks.

Thats pretty low down, market a heat vent that doesn't work without sucking the C02 out and they also won't convert their burners , instead they tell you to "buy another one" thats fucking weak man , not too mention their some of the most expensive on the market !!!

I was just talking to another grower from ICmag and he said the C.A.P. Gen1 generators can be switched out , although you have to buy replacement burners for it they're only 30 bucks a piece , not too mention its a cheaper initial investment as well for the Gen1 ...

And Just so i'm confident on this , seeing as i'm a rookie and all , the IGS Plug n Grow 061 CO2 controller will Turn ON the C02 burners if the levels drop too low and it will also Turn OFF at set level and temp level ?? Does it also run on a timer too ... The description on BG is pretty vague besides the temp shut off ...

Many thanks for the insight man , sorry about your troubles ...

Best of luck
~ Dream

PS. Megagrowth can fucking stroke me off ... assholes

Shitty people like that should be taught a lesson , fuck them.