C- BANANA S1

[~star~crash~]

HH >>> these plants have unusually large fan leaves compared to all my other strains...they are quite impressive...i was wondering if you have a pic of the actual plant these seeds came from?? or do you have a pic of the banana OG clone? maybe i can recognize some inherited physical traits?

 

[Hammerhead]

There are no big leaves on cbanana or Banana OG. When we make s1 there is nothing to it really. This is typically the 1st step in making a homogeneous line. There's still going to be some variation in s1 seeds. I like plants with big leaves. If u find something special get her to DB he will get her to me .

CBANANA

 

[Coughie]

There are no big leaves on cbanana or Banana OG. When we make s1 there is nothing to it really. This is typically the 1st step in making a homogeneous line. There's still going to be some variation in s1 seeds. I like plants with big leaves. If u find something special get her to DB he will get her to me .

Is this expanded upon, anywhere? I'd like to know more...

 

[unregistered190]

Is this expanded upon, anywhere? I'd like to know more...

I am curious about this as well, would you please elaborate Hammer?

 

[hayday]

Hammer might be able to say this with more accuracy but a s-1 is equal to a selected f-3.
So selfing makes breeding similar plant faster by isolating single genes instead of selecting the desired traits from paired genes.
Or something like that

 

[~star~crash~]

i'll get some new pics up tommorrow & you see these big fan leaves....these plants are very nice lookin thus far,,every node is sending out a pair of short branches, but man these are of a arrow & upright stature...getting cuts was near impossible because there was about nothing to really cut

 

[Americangrower]

Hammer might be able to say this with more accuracy but a s-1 is equal to a selected f-3.
So selfing makes breeding similar plant faster by isolating single genes instead of selecting the desired traits from paired genes.
Or something like that

Not true...by f3 a breeder has work toward his desirable traits. This makes the offspring more like what he wants it to be.
S1 in say GG4 (for example only) could be any of the genetic parents so it could be Sour bubble or Diesel or Choc trip etc...not even close to F3

 

[Americangrower]

I should add...if said Female is from a worked line F3 F4 IBL...then yes it would be like a F3

 

[Hammerhead]

Is this expanded upon, anywhere? I'd like to know more...

Ea time you self its like making selections over a large f1 population.
From what I have seen in my sdubb s1/s2 siblings they produce homogeneous plants. When I reach s3-s4 I should have a IBL line. Getting to the same results takes a long time using back crossing/Cubing or Selections using f1's. Its basically a short cut to homogeneous true breeding IBL lines. Toneygreen can explain it better then me. I will ask him to come explain it.

 

[Tonygreen]

Long story short in every selfed generation the percentage of heterozygous gene pairs is halved.

You are not adding other new genes so things start to line up. As tom hill taught us it is one of the fastest ways to homozygosity. Only thing faster is a double haploid which achieves perfect homozygous genome in one generation but requires a lab and understanding of aseptic protocol to produce.

50% less heterozygous gene pairs in a S1 generation.
And so on. A s4 would be nearly homozygous at every gene pair.

Real world example is the project I used hammers s2 of sour dubb. I had hoped he would for awhile because I knew they would show many of the sour dubb traits due to the many homozygous gene pairs. And many breed true on the outcross... breeding reliability.

I love breeding with selfed plants because they become less like the poly hybrids that dominate the market. The gene pool starts to get reliable and predictable and less is left up to chance. They also outcross with much more reliability.

Two selfed lines crossed will create a much more true f1 generation (perfect heterozygous gens will look uniform).

Back crosses only work if you select the right male. The wrong choice and you'll jumble the genes again. Same with filial gens.

If there is a banana selfed line lemme know if they drop! I'd be all over it. As usual hammer producing great stuff...

 

[unregistered190]

Thanks Tony

 

[Tonygreen]

Thanks Tony

Np dude. I thank tom hill for putting me on the right path! Good vibes to tom where ever he is...

 

[Hammerhead]

Thanks TG,

This is why many make s1 of there keepers. Finding those traits from the mom in s1 siblings is much faster then searching through f1...There's much less variation in s1. The plan is to go on to Sdubb s3 then see how much variation there is between siblings. If it still to much move to s4. When I get to SDUBB IBL all seeds will be as close to all traits selected for.. They should be the best representation of sdubb in seed form

 

[Tonygreen]

Can't wait to see the s3!

 

[Coughie]

Thanks Tony, Hammer;

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this and apply it to my breeding projects, but I don't want to derail this thread with my projects because giving Hammer useful information about C-Banana S1's is important in this place...

I'd love to continue this conversation somewhere else though, if either of you have the energy to teach me further.. Let me know, I'm highly interested and have some immediate use for the knowledge.

 

[hayday]

It's still too early to tell on these plants. I took some pics of the nodes this morning and this stood out...

This is next node up...

Only this plant is showing anything as far as I can see. It has only been a week in flower so it's really too soon to even be looking.
First pic looks male to me but the second, female.
More pics when things are definite.

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

I was sent 6x seeds of Long Valley Royal Kush x Black Lime Reserve to find a male and female and make more seeds.
4 showed definite males. The other 2 looked very male but they were alot slower to show their pistils. I coulda swore they were males and culled the other males thinking I had 2 males, 1 possible female, but most likely male. So, I threw them into flower, to see what they were alittle faster.
Well....both females.
It took 10 days in flower before they grew pistils outa the pre-flower nodes.
Blew that one! I now have to use these 2 beautiful Ancient OG F2 males to hit these LVRK x BLR's. I did save a cut from each mother and they are rooted and going into cups today so I can make more seed and outcross the AOG male and make this line more LVRK x BLR.
I bet these will make steller outdoor giants next year!

 

[billb]

This thread is great! Some great things being done. Hammer With the sour dubb and the banana!
Overgrown with his crosses of AOG coming up. JW, Tony, Dan, smokin joe a lot of great minds in here! I'm glad to be a small part of it. I have some purple urkle pollen and some grape ape pollen I'm thinking abt dusting a a couple buds in the next 2 months of blue dream, gg4, gorrila bubble, sour dubb, blueberry gum og, chem 4 x sour d, vanillauna, or the upcoming darlins net that are just now standing up. I'm nowhere near as good as all of y'all. But hopefully whoever wants some can possibly find a jewel or 2.

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

Dont sell yourself short brotha.
Sounds like a great project BillB! Chem 4 x Sour D would go well with a reversed GG#4.
Can you get a hold of Coliodial Silver?

I was thinking that Blue Dream x AOG would make the best yielding, most vigorous, giant monster outdoor plants. I will probably make that cross too.
So....Ill be making these:
(LVRK x BLR) x AOG
Diesel Fire x AOG
Firestorm x AOG
Blue Dream x AOG
UnderDawg x AOG

Not really sure what Im gonna do with this Arcata Trainwreck cuz its a 12 weeker.
May just pop some Nevilles Haze, reverse the ATW, and hit the NH. For gits and shiggles.
Its already a 12 wkr. May as well keep it in the long flowering catagory.
And......
I will probably make SLG x ATW(r) while Im making the Nevilles Wreck.
If this C-Banana is stable, I just may hit a clone of it with reversed ATW as well.
So many projects I have in mind.

 

[billb]

Can you order it from amazon? I've never tried to change sex's. The blue dream is a select pheno. Big big producer with all the Berry smell and flavor. She's so vigorous too. I have 8 gg4 in the clone dome right now and a small one in a cup and flowering one with all the others. But I'd love to try it. All input welcomed.