C-24 400 watt mh/hps yield

[chewmauro]

I agree that in most cases a 4" is likely sufficent. However, it should be said that running a 6" has the advantage of letting you dial it down to a lower speed (with a control) and moving just as much air. The benefit of this is that it is more quiet.

My 6" is wicked overkill for 90% of the year, but hey it never hurts to have the beast in times of need.

 

[SweetIndica]

10 (2gal) pots will fit in a c-24. if you can get 1.5 oz per plant you can get pretty close. personally I have never gotten more than 3/4 lb from mine

In order to yield 1.5 oz per plant your going to need atleast 3 gallon pots. Your not going to be able to fit 10 pots in a c24, even 10 2-gallon pots woudn't fit in a c24.

As far as yield, even a half a pound using a 400w will be slightly difficult if you don't have much growing experience. 8 oz. from a 400w would put you in at about .6g per watt, even .5g per watt is considered good and isn't usually accomplished by newer growers.

 

[pinecone]

In order to yield 1.5 oz per plant your going to need atleast 3 gallon pots. Your not going to be able to fit 10 pots in a c24, even 10 2-gallon pots woudn't fit in a c24.

As far as yield, even a half a pound using a 400w will be slightly difficult if you don't have much growing experience. 8 oz. from a 400w would put you in at about .6g per watt, even .5g per watt is considered good and isn't usually accomplished by newer growers.

You can get 2oz a plant in 2-gallon pots - I know because I've done it. What you cannot do is jam your cab full of 2-gallon pots and get 2oz per plant. The plants will crowd eachother out.

The first place I saw the 0.5 gram per watt figure mentioned was in a book by Jorge Cervantes. His benchmark was 0.5 grams per watt per 30 days flowering. For most strains this comes out to 1 gram per watt (or 2lb per 1000w light).

For C-cabs where you are running well in excess of 50w per squar foot, the limiting factor is not wattage, but space. Rather than talking about grams per watt as a measure of efficiency, it makes sense to talk about grams per square ft. In a C13 (about 5 sq ft) 2oz per square foot is a good benchmark yield. The benchmark is probably slightly less for some of the other cabs (because of the unsquareness of them), but they will yield higher in aggregate on the basis of more square footage. Given these benchmarks 8oz is very doable, even for a first time grower (who has his/her sh.t together).

Pinecone

 

[SweetIndica]

You can get 2oz a plant in 2-gallon pots - I know because I've done it. What you cannot do is jam your cab full of 2-gallon pots and get 2oz per plant. The plants will crowd eachother out.

The first place I saw the 0.5 gram per watt figure mentioned was in a book by Jorge Cervantes. His benchmark was 0.5 grams per watt per 30 days flowering. For most strains this comes out to 1 gram per watt (or 2lb per 1000w light). BTW 1g per watt on a 1000w would be about 2 lbs 4 oz.

For C-cabs where you are running well in excess of 50w per squar foot, the limiting factor is not wattage, but space. Rather than talking about grams per watt as a measure of efficiency, it makes sense to talk about grams per square ft. In a C13 (about 5 sq ft) 2oz per square foot is a good benchmark yield. The benchmark is probably slightly less for some of the other cabs (because of the unsquareness of them), but they will yield higher in aggregate on the basis of more square footage. Given these benchmarks 8oz is very doable, even for a first time grower (who has his/her sh.t together).

Pinecone

I'll believe it when i see it, 2 oz. per plant in a 2 gallon pot under a 400w is most likely not going to happen. I could see if you used a 1000w where the light is so strong it would penetrate the canopy well and make nice budsites all the way up the plant. Sorry for not explaining it above, but i was talking using a 400w hps to achieve 2 oz. in a 2 gallon pot.

.5g per watt is after harvest, i'm not talking 30 days into flowering. .5g per watt is considered above average, and won't likely be achieved until you have a few grows under your belt. 1g per watt is possible, but VERY hard to achieve especially using soil and not a hydro system.

8 oz. from a 400w could definately be possible. But my recommendation is to select the best yielding mothers from each strain. Also, choose a strain that yields well. This is all if your looking for pure yield. I personally prefer quality over quantity, but alot of people prefer yield...especially commercial growers.

But your not going to be able to fit as many plants as come people are saying under a 400w, cab or not. When i use to have a 400w i only put 4 full size plants (females) to flower under it, even then it was crowded and the outer buds weren't getting much light. A 400w won't cover a big area effectively. Your best bet would be to go sog (alot of plants) rather than growing a few big ones. It's up to you though. Good luck!

 

[pinecone]

I'll believe it when i see it, 2 oz. per plant in a 2 gallon pot under a 400w is most likely not going to happen. I could see if you used a 1000w where the light is so strong it would penetrate the canopy well and make nice budsites all the way up the plant. Sorry for not explaining it above, but i was talking using a 400w hps to achieve 2 oz. in a 2 gallon pot.

As I mentioned above I have two grows in the C13. They were well documented on OG (for whatever that is worth). For both grows I kept 4 plants. The first grow they were flowed in 2-gallon pots and for the second I vegged 2 more weeks (7 weeks of vegitative growth) and went to 4-gallon pots. The first grow yeild 7.4 and the second yeilded over 9 (all grade A and all dry enough to jar). Three out of the 4 plants in the first grow were in 2oz.

I don't know if you have ever grown in these cabs - the thing that you are missing is that because of the limited footprints in the cab it is easy to shower your plants with light (i.e. you don't have to worry about making the light cover a larger area). With air cooled hoods 400w lamps can be kept several inches from the plant tops which means that the plants are getting the full initial lumen rating of the bulb (about 50,000 lumens). So a 1000w lamp will produce around 145000 initial lumens. If it hangs 2ft above the plant tops this light has degraded to 145000/4=36000 lumens (using the standard formula for light degredation lumens=(initial lumens)/f^2)). Thus, people using 400w lights in smaller cabs are giving their plants much more light than would a 400w grower using an optimally sized footpring (50w per square ft.) and probably more light than most 1000w growers.

.5g per watt is after harvest, i'm not talking 30 days into flowering. .5g per watt is considered above average, and won't likely be achieved until you have a few grows under your belt. 1g per watt is possible, but VERY hard to achieve especially using soil and not a hydro system.

As for the 0.5 grams per watt thing - you are wrong on this (and most other people are as well). According to Indoor Marijuana Horticulture (Jorge Cervantes) the benchmark is 0.5 grams per watt per 30 days flowering. Now Jorge is an expert and this particular book has had multiple editions - I don't think he got it wrong.

Pinecone

 

[bostrom155]

Pinecone,

Unless you have seen pinecones stuff on og, you would not believe it, very impressive grows. Him and SimonC we're a wealth of information for us newly bought Mills pride cab. thanks for sharing pinecone

Great info, I'm always trying to get more.

 

[SweetIndica]

As I mentioned above I have two grows in the C13. They were well documented on OG (for whatever that is worth). For both grows I kept 4 plants. The first grow they were flowed in 2-gallon pots and for the second I vegged 2 more weeks (7 weeks of vegitative growth) and went to 4-gallon pots. The first grow yeild 7.4 and the second yeilded over 9 (all grade A and all dry enough to jar). Three out of the 4 plants in the first grow were in 2oz.

I don't know if you have ever grown in these cabs - the thing that you are missing is that because of the limited footprints in the cab it is easy to shower your plants with light (i.e. you don't have to worry about making the light cover a larger area). With air cooled hoods 400w lamps can be kept several inches from the plant tops which means that the plants are getting the full initial lumen rating of the bulb (about 50,000 lumens). So a 1000w lamp will produce around 145000 initial lumens. If it hangs 2ft above the plant tops this light has degraded to 145000/4=36000 lumens (using the standard formula for light degredation lumens=(initial lumens)/f^2)). Thus, people using 400w lights in smaller cabs are giving their plants much more light than would a 400w grower using an optimally sized footpring (50w per square ft.) and probably more light than most 1000w growers.



As for the 0.5 grams per watt thing - you are wrong on this (and most other people are as well). According to Indoor Marijuana Horticulture (Jorge Cervantes) the benchmark is 0.5 grams per watt per 30 days flowering. Now Jorge is an expert and this particular book has had multiple editions - I don't think he got it wrong.

Pinecone

Alright, then let's see some pics. With my 400w, even though it wasn't aircooled i was able to keep it at about 6-8 inches away without hurting the plants. The fact is a 400w hps isn't going to penetrate deep enough into the canopy to grow fat colas like a 1000w would, i don't care how close it is. 400w's also won't cover a very big space. Like i said, i'll believe it when i see it. In order for a plant to have 2 oz. of dried bud grown in a 2 gallon with a 400w hps, the whole plant would have to be almost pure bud. I believe you could of gotten damn close to 2 oz., but i doubt it was 2 complete oz. dried. Even to get close to 2 oz using a 2 gallon/400w hps it would require alot of work. Example, look in the paradise sensi star discussion thread. A guy in there grew small plants using a hydro system, the plants were about 12-16" and SOLID BUD, i'm talking you could barely see any stems/leaves, even on the bottom of the plant...even then he only yielded i believe a little over a half ounce per plant, The plants also looked like they were either topped/fimmed/or lst'ed because each plant had 3-4 solid colas, from the very bottom of the stem all the way up.

As far as the g per watt comment, i don't care what you read. I'm sure he is claiming that is what HE PERSONALLY may of yielded, but he is also an expert. Any experienced growers will tell you that it's very hard to hit the 1g per watt mark, and that .5g per watt and above is considered good. Like i said, post pics and maybe i will believe you. Stop running your mouth unless your going to provide proof. I could say i yielded 5 oz. off of a 12" plant, doesn't mean it's true.

 

[SweetIndica]

Example, here was my 3rd grow in which i used a 400w hps. As you can see she was pretty dense, she was 3 feet tall at harvest, flowered in a 3 gallon pot. The light was also closer to her than any other plants as she was the tallest (light was about 4-6 inches away). As you can also tell, once the buds get down to about 1.5 feet, they become very small or almost non existant, this is because 400w's don't provide much penetration. She was my best pheno and weighed in at about 1.8 oz dried. In total i hit about .5g per watt (i had 4 females total, all in 3 gallon pots). If you look at 1000w bud pics, you can tell the buds are thick and fat through most of the plant, even near the bottom...because even at a few feet away, the 1000w provides about the same amount of lumens as the 400w does only a few inches away. If your going to compare a 400w aircooled against a 1000w, then take into account that the 1000w is aircooled also. You can't say, oh well my 400w provides the same amount of lumens that a 1000w normally would because mines aircooled...most people 1000w lights are aircooled anyways, considering the enormous heat they give off. If a 1000w is properly aircooled you can get it just as close as a 400w aircooled light. And about the 1g per watt thing again...it's definately possible, but your going to need to be a VERY good grower and have natural growing talent to hit that mark. Even after 5 grows, i haven't hit much above the .5g per watt mark. I'm come close to .6g but that's it. Although my new grow which i will be starting soon i am using an aircooled 1000w hps wit ha hortilux bulb and a bunch of other stuff, hoping to hit .7g per watt or more.

I don't really get why we are arguing though, there isn't really a point. I'll take your word for it, i'm interested to see pics anyways though, i'm sure your plants were great even if you didn't really hit the 2 oz. mark. Even if you were slightly off, you still deserve props.

 

[pinecone]

Alright, then let's see some pics.

Well - I don't have any pictures. I never keep incriminating pictures on my computer so all was lost when the OG thing went down. It is clear, however, that some folks have seen the pictures.

The fact is a 400w hps isn't going to penetrate deep enough into the canopy to grow fat colas like a 1000w would, i don't care how close it is.

I refer you to my prior post. Light intesity disipates at a rate that is inversely proportional to the squared distance to the source. Thus, a 400w lamp very close provides comparable lumens (light intesity, penentration, whatever you want to call it) to a 1000w lamp somewhat farther away.

400w's also won't cover a very big space.

How much area a 400w light can cover is not the issue. Your claim was that you cannot grow 2oz plants in 2-gallon buckets filled with dirt under a 400w light.

As far as the g per watt comment, i don't care what you read. I'm sure he is claiming that is what HE PERSONALLY may of yielded, but he is also an expert. Any experienced growers will tell you that it's very hard to hit the 1g per watt mark, and that .5g per watt and above is considered good. Like i said, post pics and maybe i will believe you. Stop running your mouth unless your going to provide proof. I could say i yielded 5 oz. off of a 12" plant, doesn't mean it's true.

Actually, Jorge's 0.5 grams per watt per 30 days flower was a benchmark - something to gauge your harvest by. It is achievable, but probably only with an optimally configured space and equipement. The 0.5 grams per watt is doable with much less.

As for running my mouth - the only reason I persist is that I think you are misinforming people. You write about getting good yeilds like its rocket science and only the most experienced growers can do it. The fact is: GROWING POT IS EASY. Hell - I'm a fcking expert at growing in my cab and I've only done 2 grows. The only reason so many people fck it up is that they are stoners.:wink:

Peace

Pinecone

 

[pinecone]

Example, here was my 3rd grow in which i used a 400w hps. As you can see she was pretty dense, she was 3 feet tall at harvest, flowered in a 3 gallon pot. The light was also closer to her than any other plants as she was the tallest (light was about 4-6 inches away).

Nice plant.

As you can also tell, once the buds get down to about 1.5 feet, they become very small or almost non existant, this is because 400w's don't provide much penetration.

I grow plants that are in the 20" range and trim the bottom 6" to 8" inches of everything. I also train them so I get something like a virtual scrog (no screen). I shoot for 8-10 colas per plant and an even canopy.

The dry weights are listed above are for Grade A only (not counting popcorn trim which I bagged and froze for hash without weighing).

If your going to compare a 400w aircooled against a 1000w, then take into account that the 1000w is aircooled also. You can't say, oh well my 400w provides the same amount of lumens that a 1000w normally would because mines aircooled...most people 1000w lights are aircooled anyways, considering the enormous heat they give off. If a 1000w is properly aircooled you can get it just as close as a 400w aircooled light.

Well - most people using 1000w want to cover more than 5 square feet so they hang their lights up a bit. The only reason I don't hang my light up any higher is that I don't hve to - the hood is almost as big as the cab.

I don't really get why we are arguing though, there isn't really a point. I'll take your word for it, i'm interested to see pics anyways though, i'm sure your plants were great even if you didn't really hit the 2 oz. mark. Even if you were slightly off, you still deserve props.

I wasn't even slightly off and with the first grow which was a diary I actually took great pains to document the yield. I had pictures of the bud drying in the cab - scale and jar shots for each plant, ect - and I would show you the pics if they existed.

Pinecone

 

[Guest]

I've done 2oz in 2g pots under 400w no problem (6L pots, actually) depends on the strain/pheno and feeding regiment. SCROG is the way to go in a cab, imho - 400w of penetration will be plenty.

 

[pinecone]

I don't really get why we are arguing though, there isn't really a point. I'll take your word for it, i'm interested to see pics anyways though, i'm sure your plants were great even if you didn't really hit the 2 oz. mark. Even if you were slightly off, you still deserve props.

It turns out I'm not as good at eliminating incriminating evidence as I though as I found the harvest pictures. This pictures are from my first grow.

Picture 1 - shows the entire harvest in the cab. The bag at the bottom is the trim. There is a line for each of the 4 plants

Picture 2-Picture5 - weight shots of the individual plants.

Picture 6 - the harvest all jarred up. You can see that the rh in the jar is about 60% - so the buds are plenty dry enough to be jarred. The larger jars are quarts (there are 6) and the smaller ones are pints (there are 3).

Picture 7 - this is a plant from my second grow (all trimmed up). I don't remember what it weighed, but it was well in excess of 2oz .

Enjoy!

Pinecone

Edit: Actually two of the plant weight pictures didn't post foor some reason. They show up as black in my gallary, but if you click on them they should open up normally. The pics are c992weighed and c994weighed.

 

[SweetIndica]

I've done 2oz in 2g pots under 400w no problem (6L pots, actually) depends on the strain/pheno and feeding regiment. SCROG is the way to go in a cab, imho - 400w of penetration will be plenty.

Yea...i guess your right. I'm sure it's possible with a high yielding strain.

pinecone- nice buds, i'm assuming those are c99 from the picture names? If they are, what breeder did you get it from? I've been interested in growing c99 for a long time, but theres like 5 breeders i could choose from. Those buds look dense as shit...70 grams from one plant in a 2 gallon using a 400w hps is crazy. The most i've pull off per plant using a 400w was a tiny bit over a 2 oz...i think the dry weight was like 58 grams, but that was using a 3 or 4 gallon pot (can't remember).

EDIT: i wasn't saying .5g per watt is hard to achieve, i'm saying that a first time grower is most likely not going to reach that mark. It took me a few grows until i got over .5g per watt. My first hps grow, i got like 4 oz. off of 4 plants...it was my fault obviously. But then the next hps grow i got about 5 oz. off of 4 plants. And then the one i posted pics of i got about 7.2 oz, which was a little over .5g per watt. 5g per watt is definately feasible, and most growers who have atleast some experience should be able to do it, but 1g per watt is hard to do. Growing pot itself is fairly easy. But in order to get 1g per watt, your going to need to try and maximize efficiency, feed them as much nutes without overfeeding, boost them with other supplements, get the light as close as possible, and your going to need to constantly attend to your plants (trimming some of the large fan leaves leaves for light penetration, lsting/scrogging, etc.). It's definately possible though. Although some dude on grasscity (which is full of wannabees) claimed he got 1.6g per watt, even though he was growing strains that are known for average to below average yield. He also claimed his grow setup (only 4000w) cost him $50,000. Thats why i came to icmag, no fake people who are full of themselves.

 

[pinecone]

pinecone- nice buds, i'm assuming those are c99 from the picture names? If they are, what breeder did you get it from? I've been interested in growing c99 for a long time, but theres like 5 breeders i could choose from. Those buds look dense as shit...70 grams from one plant in a 2 gallon using a 400w hps is crazy. The most i've pull off per plant using a 400w was a tiny bit over a 2 oz...i think the dry weight was like 58 grams, but that was using a 3 or 4 gallon pot (can't remember).

My beans were from the Gypsy Nirvana Collection (GN03). They are not the feminized ones that are being sold now - although all the seeds I sprouted were girls. Personally I would recommend that you buy the cheapest C99 beans. Because of the way the strain was developed (repeated backcrossing) it should be very stable. Now that I think about it 3 of the plants I had were very similar and one was a mutant. The plant in the last weigh shot was started 10 days behind the others. The late start was why it didn't weigh as much as the big 2.

Pinecone

 

[ft100]

hey pinecone what is up man? I think there is a small learning curve to growing and some people can be affected by this curve less. A big factor is getting a good setup to start with. I yielded only 2 ozs off of 2 plants my first grow in the c13. Then I yielded 5 ounces off 6 plants my second grow in it. This grow I am shooting for 6 ounces. I would consider my learning curve to be about normal. You sire have a green thumb. Here are some of my SSH vegging in the c13. When do you think I should flower such a sativa? and what do you think the estimated yield off of these in 2 gallon pots would be?

 

[pinecone]

hey pinecone what is up man? I think there is a small learning curve to growing and some people can be affected by this curve less. A big factor is getting a good setup to start with.

I'm doing well. I would agree that there is a learning curve, but is should be signficantly lessened by sites like this which allow you to learn from other people before you even plant a seed. Before I started to grow pot I read a bunch of grow diaries. Some of these grows were good and some were pretty bad - but I learned a lot from all of them.

I learned:
(1) Getting a good setup to start with is important (i agree). This is were many people mess up. You just can't grow a lot of good pot if your cabinet tempuratures are 90 degrees.
(2) Have some sort of plan for how you grow your plants that will allows you to maximize the efficiency of your space. For example, if your working smaller lamps (250w and 400w) you probably don't want to grow 3ft trees. You want to find away to get the most of the plant material withing 1' of the plant tops. There are numerous ways to do this (i.e. scrog, lst, small scale sog) and I'm not sure that one is better than the other. All these methods invlove keeping and even canopy and growing lots of smaller colas rather than several big ones.
(3) Have a good plant management plan. This starts with starting sufficient number of seeds, but also covers things like watering, soil-fertilizing (edit: I put these together because how much you will need to use fertilizers will depend on what type of soil you are using), and the timing of transplants and light switches. I'm a big believer in incrementally moving to larger pots. I also think most people growing from seed would be better served to veg longer (at least 5-weeks). The big difference between one of the plants that weighted 30 some grams in my first grow and the ones that weighted in the 60-70 gram range were 10 days of veg time.
(4) Be patient. I don't think there is much that can be done (short of C02) to make healthy plants grow faster in veg - so concentrate on keeping them healthy rather than boosting their growth rates with excessive fertiliztion, watering, and the like. Also - Let the plants finish properly. Lots of people harvest too early.

Here are some of my SSH vegging in the c13. When do you think I should flower such a sativa? and what do you think the estimated yield off of these in 2 gallon pots would be?

Those plants you have look very healthy. I think the timing of the light switch should depend in part on how man females you have. Let me give you a plan -

Once they get into a pot that is about 1-gallon - tie down the meristem. This will focus growth on the other branches so that you will have a short plant with a flat top, rather than a tall Christmas Tree.

Let them veg until at least 5-weeks and determine how many females you have. If you have less than 4-females plan on vegging 2-weeks longer and using pots larger than 2-gallons (i.e. transplant out of the 2-gallon pots). The longer veg time will allow you to completely fill your cab. If you have 4-or more females, pick the 4 female plants with the best growth characteristics (robust growth, short internodes, nice leafs, ect) and flower them at 5 weeks.

As long as your temps are ok I think you should set your sights high - like 8oz.

Pinecone

 

[ft100]

alright pinecone, thanks for your advice. i will transplant to 1 gallon pots and start lst-ing them. ill let them fill the 1 gallon pots out and then move them to 3 gallon pots to flower. I will keep the best 4. I also want to have these genetics around for a while. do you reccomend cloning each plant or just making some seeds on selected branches or both? thanks again friend.

 

[SweetIndica]

My beans were from the Gypsy Nirvana Collection (GN03). They are not the feminized ones that are being sold now - although all the seeds I sprouted were girls. Personally I would recommend that you buy the cheapest C99 beans. Because of the way the strain was developed (repeated backcrossing) it should be very stable. Now that I think about it 3 of the plants I had were very similar and one was a mutant. The plant in the last weigh shot was started 10 days behind the others. The late start was why it didn't weigh as much as the big 2.

Pinecone

Alright, thanks for the info. I've heard great things about the GN c99. Too bad they only sell the feminized ones, has anyone had any problems with hermies from them? I tend to stay clear of feminized seeds, just incase a hermie pops up and i don't catch it. I grew one pack of feminized seeds once, and one hermied, but i didn't notice until they were harvested, so all of the females ended up with some seeds in them. I've also heard good things about the wallyduck c99 f5's. I've heard it's farely stable, and it's not too expensive. What phenos traits do you look for in c99? Although it's makeup is almost pure sativa, i've seen some that are very short and squat. How was the stretch on your c99's? Would lst be the best way to go if growing them under a 1000w since i can't have them growing over 3.5 feet tall or so.

 

[pinecone]

alright pinecone, thanks for your advice. i will transplant to 1 gallon pots and start lst-ing them. ill let them fill the 1 gallon pots out and then move them to 3 gallon pots to flower. I will keep the best 4. I also want to have these genetics around for a while. do you reccomend cloning each plant or just making some seeds on selected branches or both? thanks again friend.

Clone them. I would clone each female plant with good growth characteristics if you can - even if you only flower 4 from seed.

 

[pinecone]

Alright, thanks for the info. I've heard great things about the GN c99. Too bad they only sell the feminized ones, has anyone had any problems with hermies from them? I tend to stay clear of feminized seeds, just incase a hermie pops up and i don't catch it.

They make me uncomfortable as well.

What phenos traits do you look for in c99? Although it's makeup is almost pure sativa, i've seen some that are very short and squat.

All the plants I had smoked good, all smelled like overripe fruit during flower, and like berries when dried. As far as growth characteristics - one was a mutant, one was a little taller, and two were shorter and compact. If I was picking a mom I would look for a compact one, just because they work slightly better for my space (most spaces actually).

C99 is not a pure sativa. The orignal breader found a seed in some Jack Herer bud that was purchased at the Sensi Seeds Coffee Shop. He grew out the seed and got shorter plant with a racy high. He called this plant Princess and crossed it with Shiva Skunk. The progeny of this cross were then crossed back to Princess successive times.

How was the stretch on your c99's? Would lst be the best way to go if growing them under a 1000w since i can't have them growing over 3.5 feet tall or so.

I bent mine so its hard to say about stretch - the tallest one was 21" pretty short). I'm not sure how to grow them with 1000w, although if I grew them again (w/400w) I would grow them the same way I did the first time.

Pinecone