What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

Butte's Bounty - 2011

Butte

Active member
Veteran
I was wondering how many days after plugging in you cut them back? Are you going to cut them back as hard as you described in the Growing Large Plants thread last year?

Well, we planted May 20th and did our first in-ground pruning on the 24th, so, four days. This was dictated by both the observations of the plants and the lunar cycle. We’re looking to not touch them until they’re over any transplant shock. However, since we were using the air pots, there was virtually no lag and we could simply wait for the perfect moon. The ‘first round’ of pruning is to simply bring the bottom branches up. As I’ve stated before, we’re looking for 12-18” of bare, single stalk to keep the bottom clean and easy to access. We’ve been doing light training the entire life cycle of the plant to maximize growth of material that will remain in the final structure. Here’s a Blueberry Frost that has a good initial structure. This plant was not yet tall enough to get hard-topped.

picture.php

Our most recent, second round of pruning had more of an eye towards removing inner and lower growth and taking the hard topping approach to the plants that were ready. This is also on a plant by plant basis. We let them get to about 3-4’ tall and then take them back ~6”. Tom Hill can decry “the lack of a main meristem”, but we’ve seen this technique work time and time again and will continue to use it now. Since we were simply waiting for the appropriate lunar cycle, we pruned the second time twenty six days after putting in or around three weeks after the first round. Here’s a Kush Cleaner that was hard topped and trained three days ago.

picture.php

Do you use anything to walk across the beds without smashing the soil? so you can access the stem area if needed? im guessing some 2 x 6s ?

When we have a wheel barrow or a lot of walking to do we use these really trick roll out garden walkways from Gardener’s Supply (http://www.gardeners.com/Roll-Out-Walkway/36-390,default,pd.html)

picture.php

Otherwise, we roll around barefoot. Soil with proper structure can withstand quite a bit of traffic if you walk softly. The deeper metaphor should be obvious here. Throughout gardening we are given an opportunity to turn our art into a practice as well. The plants contain an intelligence that is vast and can teach us a tremendous amount if we but listen. I’ve posted this link before, but will do so again. It’s a talk given by Dennis McKenna called "Plant Teachers" presented at the 4th International Amazonian Shamanism Conference, "Magic, Myths & Miracles" in Iquitos, Peru. (July 19, 2008). Very heartfelt and honest. While it is primarily about ayahuasca, the ideas presented relate to all plants and, more broadly, to all our relationships. Highly recommended.

http://ia311317.us.archive.org/3/it...amanism_Conference/02_Dennis_McKenna_64kb.mp3

Excerpted from 31:15

DennisMcKenna said:
We’re plant people. We wouldn’t be here if we weren’t plant people. We’re called to this conference by a plant...
...
We do what we do because of plants and for plants...we work for the plants. We need to do what the plants want us to do and I think what the plants want us to do is to form symbiosis and they want us to share information. They want us to teach other plant people. Plants want to spread around. That’s what they do. They want symbiosis because that’s a way to further their agenda. We need to follow that. We need to do what plant people have always done which is to share plants. Share knowledge. The most revolutionary thing you can do is grow a garden...

Butte, would you mind discussing your decision to plant in the ground this year? Was that part of a soil-building strategy, or did you sour on the smartpots?

The decision came after much deliberation. We really like the raised container for a lot of reasons, but the difficulty in maintaining even moisture finally brought us to abandon the idea for a more traditional approach. So far it is going very well.

As we move forward with our various projects and additions to the garden, we’ll keep posting. Thank you for good questions. Teaching is learning and trying to explain the approach brings greater clarity.

We’re also starting to take garden tours and will post a few pictures of some of the gardens we see, but probably in the Large Plants thread...and not until they classify as large plants!

Happy gardening everyone - Butte
 
G

guest8905

sweet butte, thanks for sharing, your posts are always very thorough and well presented. Much appreciated as a icmag user for sure.

Those custom portable bed walkways look nice. Barefoot sounds better though ;)

thanks for the link im gonna check it now
 

Yes4Prop215

Active member
Veteran
damn lovin those aerial shots from above...you are gonna have a nice harvest man cant wait to see how this turns out.
 
T

Trinity Gold

Hey Butte I was wondering what your plan for support was now that you're out of the pots, I see the wire cages but know that isn't going to be where you stop...How do you plan to avoid snapping branches later? Drive T Posts and do some hortonova? Curious what your ideas are...
 

vorzh

Member
For sure i'm abandoning smart pots next year and going straight up in the ground. Easier, cleaner, and like Butte said better moisture control. Can't beat it!

Thanks for the good info and examples boss
 
Y

YosemiteSam

the Butte training method indoors

the Butte training method indoors

IMG_1180.JPG

Three weeks in (so end of stretch) and 5-5.5 ft tall.

This technique is making a huge difference for me. Most budsites I have ever gotten.

Thank you Butte.:bow:
 
T

Trinity Gold

Butte - Sorry to bump your thread and quote myself but my question got buried by a bunch of praise posts...You deserve it bro but I can see for sure how it would make it hard to have any kind of good dialog between people who want to grow big plants... This year my plants are the biggest they have ever been and I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to to do support them...
Hey Butte I was wondering what your plan for support was now that you're out of the pots, I see the wire cages but know that isn't going to be where you stop...How do you plan to avoid snapping branches later? Drive T Posts and do some hortonova? Curious what your ideas are...
 

Crunchy Taco

Active member
I'm also interested if you were planning are doing your same cages this year, Or if you got something else up your sleeve.
 

paulo73

Convicted for turning dreams into reality
Veteran
Amazing thread!
Thanks you Butte for sharing it with us.
Without a doubt you are living the dream.
All the best for the season and i hope you don´t mind me hanging around.
I just love to learn from the best :)
 

Butte

Active member
Veteran
Hello all

Off and on rain(!) is giving us a reprieve from installing emitter tubing so we’ll answer the training/ support question...but we’re going to be a bit lazy first. Here’s an excerpt from an earlier post we did on training:

Training. [We use] 2’ diameter rings for initial training. This stage gives us an even plant and is useful for setting up what will be main support branches. This next shot shows when we usually put the next ring on. Timing in all of these steps is critical. Do it too late and you’re struggling to get the plant in the right position being able to train the tops where you want them. I pointed out some of the initial training that was done when the ring went on.

picture.php

Here’s the same plant 17 days later.

picture.php

The astute observer will notice there is now a “cap” on the concrete wire support ring. These are cut 5’x5’ and fit nicely over the rings. Again, timing is key. Placing the caps on when the plants are at the stage below ensures you can put the tops in a nice even canopy.

picture.php

As the plants continue to fill the space, we come in with 5/8” rebar cut to 10’ lengths and more hortinova. In these shots we did not use t-posts at the bases of the rebar, but did last year for more support.

picture.php

10 days later. It would have been much harder to put the netting on at this point. When the growing tips get 12-18" beyond the existing netting, we come in with another layer lightly draped over the outside of the plant and allow it to grow through that layer. The timing on this additional netting is dictated by plant growth.

picture.php

Here’s a shot from this year’s garden probably the day we put on the netting as the bottoms still are not fastened to the rings. Also notice how the netting is only loosely around the plants. We're looking to have the plants grow through the netting, not be forced through. **NOTE: many of these plants turned out to have fusarium at this point

picture.php

For us, one of the keys to big plants (in this case higher yield, not just super tall or wide) is an even canopy with lots and lots of budsites. We let our plants veg to three or four feet and then take a large set of tip cuttings off the plant. 6-8” from all the main leader shoots. This creates a much more ball shaped plant. This first picture is a plant with a more traditional, small topping approach. You can see how there are fewer large growing tips than the next picture. That plant had a larger set of cuttings taken from the tips. It’s our feeling that you are changing the balance of growth auxins by removing that material.

picture.php


picture.php

We also prune up the insides to remove spindly growth and vegetation not getting good light. The improvement in ventilation inside the plant as well as the majority of growth going to quality budsites is well worth the effort...and it does take maintenance!

Now a few detail notes. First, we like the concrete reinforcement wire for the larger rings. We cut them 14’ long and overlap two squares for a nice, flat side. Hog ring pliers with round rings like these make assembly and disassembly a breeze. A quick google search will bring up a number of suppliers.

picture.php

The 13’ circumference gives us a 4’ diameter ring. Since the t-posts are spaced just greater than 5’ apart, this works out well for spacing from one layer to the next. Another reason I go for the increased expense of the concrete wire (~$13/ea) is it acts as a structure to support the plants. One season the wind blew from a direction that it normally doesn’t and toppled two plants over the tops of the wire. The rings remained standing and prevented any major damage.

When the sun pops back out we’ll shoot another picture or two, until then, happy gardening!

- Butte
 
Top