building my upcoming grow room! need help!!

[ajc0k]

Hey everyone.. Relatively new to growing, but been reading overgrow and this wonderful site for years in my teens) so I sort of know my shit, however lack experience. This will be my first real indoor (besides my lame 100 watt rubbermaid ive run once and now keep my moms in until i move, along with a tiny outdoor grow)) CANT WAIT TO DO SOME HYDRO I'm for sure not a soil guy so god damn messy!! I swung by the house im moving into within the next few weeks (my sister occupied the house w/ friends but is moving to hawaii for school. my parents own the house, im 19, prop 215 patient who got kicked out of UCSB lol back home bored as fuck rready to grow!!) to work on it a bit and to start clearing it out. I've planned it all out, but I need some OPINIONS/SUGGESTIONS please to figure out which way to go. I'm going to be growing in the garage fo sho the dimensions are (starting from garage sliding door to the end of the wooden cabinets) 16x10x8 ft, here are some pics of it, (dont mind the shit everywhere im hauling it out soon enough just had to get these up to show you what im working with

ANYWAYS, i figure it's the best spot in the house although i have a spare bedroom with a lil secret 3x3 room and big walk in closet but I doubt it can handle the wattage) temps stay pretty cool in garage as i live in San francisco area. Sink is all ready for an RO filter unit to be installed once i finalize everything and order all the shit. Got the bangin old breaker box right there too (can anyone guess how much juice i could run just by looking at the box by any chance?) my brotha from anotha motha is an electrician so im going to have him fly over and visit real soon to make sure i wont burn my house down as I'd be disowned most likely lolz. Also as well possibly installing some emergency sprinklers, and lining up Infrared blocker on the walls. safety first right?

Ok, heres where I need some opinions!!
I've had my mind set on the following set up:
-Running 2k watts in two 8" magnum xxxl hoods cooled by 8 inch vortex.
-18 bucket Greentrees Ebb and Gro system.
-Veg times of a month and a half or so with crazy LST.
-Section off one big flower room and ceiling with black white poly for the buckets
-Outside the flower room have a 3x3 drip table accompanied by a 6 tube T8 lamp, for me moms and growing out seeds(then clone to sex, fuck with making some crosses with the males to get some seeds) (i have reservoirs williams wonder , nirvana ice, dj's f-13 coming in, GH SSH, magus warlock, and paradise seeds nebula for beans ready to pop them for moms after setting up)
-Current mom collection in rubbermaid: purple kush, gdp, blue dream sativa pheno in FFOF soil)
-Utilize one of those multiple cabinets i have (remove all shelves, hang 2 T8 tubes in there)for my rooting cuts, and once rooted put in the multi-flow buckets under the 2k MH/flip to HPS at flower.
-I'll probably add another 3x3 eventually to get a head start of vegging. way more plant #'s tho, not good breaking my limit, but who gives a shit lol I want them greens nd purples.

Overview: So basically 2k watts 18 multi-flow buckets. Maybe ill add a light mover down the road once dialed in. very long veg times, I want bushes baby.

OR..:
Vertical lighting has been catching my attention for a bit now. the other idea involves:

-Divide part of the garage in two 4x4 flower rooms via 2x4's and covering all sides with black white poly. ,
-1k vertical cool tube each room. lights cooled by one 8" vortex with a Y splitter, cut hole in ceiling to exhaust above (theres storage on top lots of space and lil air vents itll work perfectly) wouldn't be able to use ebb and grow.. so probably hempy buckets in one of the rooms(thought of hempy for various personal head stash strains POSSIBLY or ill just cram them in with the rest) and a 3x3 or 4x4 flood table in the other. or just two 4x4 tables in both. 9 plants flowering in each
-have a separate 2x4 drip table for moms. and a 3x3 table for vegging new cuts to get ready to throw in tables/hempy buckets
-Flip flop the rooms for a perpetual style harvest. throw the plants on 3x3 vegging from t8 in after each harvest.
.
Im going to use Floranova Grow and Bloom simple easy, ph down. maybe root stim. florakleen for flushing every 2 weeks. Have Purple Maxx for foliar feed to crank up the trichomes on them bitches. Probably two 6 inch Vortex wit Diy filters to scrub the room.. Oscillating fans everywhere got so many of them. Nutradip tri-meter. Rapid rooters for cuts(to toss in ebb nd gro buckets, although i fuckin love my bubbly cloner)
My apologies if this is all unorganized but im in class and wired like hell on adderall trying to pay attention and write this, brain scattered like fuck. so forgive me for the mess and any crazy shit that may not make sense. anyways i need some opinions please Which set up has the most potential, would vertical still be good without stacking plants on shelves??

 

[JustBlazed]

Wowzers. why two 1000's? I would opt for 3 600's, you can put em closer to plants and you'll get a more even light pattern. Veggin for 1 month, kinda long I would say 3 weeks would be good nuff. Don't go vertical, it looks cool and you can take pictures like its the coolest thing but it has been proven the horizontal is more productive. I would suggest some dutch master liquid light, heard a lot of good things about it and seems to be worth it. Do you have a side door to your garage, it would look pretty suspect if you open up your garage and someone walking their dog or getting a newspaper sees a bunch of tents in a garage. Why t8's just use the t5's they give out a more intense light even though they are not as big as T8's. Your gonna need extra ballasts if you plan on switching from MH to HPS. You have a big ass room 160 sqft, more than enough room to put a bunch of boxes and stuff blocking the garage door. Woulda typed more but I gotta go.

 

[ajc0k]

I've decided to go with the three 600/400 Nextgen ballast nd hoods with the greentree 24 bucket ebb nd grow system thanks bro!! i should have thought of that better light spread damn.. well shit this is gonna be fun just will be a bit till im up and running have to clean up and safety shit. can a 6" vortex 435 cfm fan cool the three 600's good enough??

 

[JustBlazed]

yes 24 sounds right. I dont know much about fans but I would say that 1 vortex 6" would not do the trick. I would say do more research on exactly what you want to do, you already have the space and this forum is an excellent learning tool. Also look up Jorge Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture - The Indoor Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible. this will teach you a lot on specific topics and should make you decisions easier because you will be more informed.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Wowzers. why two 1000's? I would opt for 3 600's, you can put em closer to plants and you'll get a more even light pattern. Veggin for 1 month, kinda long I would say 3 weeks would be good nuff. Don't go vertical, it looks cool and you can take pictures like its the coolest thing but it has been proven the horizontal is more productive. I would suggest some dutch master liquid light, heard a lot of good things about it and seems to be worth it. Do you have a side door to your garage, it would look pretty suspect if you open up your garage and someone walking their dog or getting a newspaper sees a bunch of tents in a garage. Why t8's just use the t5's they give out a more intense light even though they are not as big as T8's. Your gonna need extra ballasts if you plan on switching from MH to HPS. You have a big ass room 160 sqft, more than enough room to put a bunch of boxes and stuff blocking the garage door. Woulda typed more but I gotta go.

Where exactly has it been proving that horizontal is more productive than vertical? Ive seen growers get 1.5 - 2 grams per watt with vertical systems. A fully vertical system (not a stadium) beats a horizontal setup every day of the week, taking into account that you have some experience in growing and have done a few runs with your vertical system.

 

[JustBlazed]

If your definition of productivity is a high gpw (>1) then yes it is more productive, but my definition would be a avg gpw over a short time. This means in the time it would take you to grow that >1.5gpw, I could grow a lower gpw yield but would do it a lot faster with more plants thus yielding an overall higher yield. I guess he would be benefit with vertical lighting with Ebb & Grow for around 7 plants because it would be more productive concerning wattage.

 

[Philosophelon]

If your definition of productivity is a high gpw (>1) then yes it is more productive, but my definition would be a avg gpw over a short time. This means in the time it would take you to grow that >1.5gpw, I could grow a lower gpw yield but would do it a lot faster with more plants thus yielding an overall higher yield. I guess he would be benefit with vertical lighting with Ebb & Grow for around 7 plants because it would be more productive concerning wattage.

The yield/time debate aside, when it comes to medical gardens, and this young gentleman stated that he was a Prop 215 patient, large plants are generally more productive than small plants for another important reason -- limits on plant count. For a prop 215 patient in most locations, his garden will be limited by plant count rather than square footage, so if you have the headroom, grow big!

Think of it this way -- you are allowed (for example) six mature plants and 18 immature plants. If you grow small plants (let's say 1 plant per sf) your six mature plants will occupy 6 s.f. of canopy space, which can be lit with a max of 400, maybe 600, watts. Or you can veg for a longer period of time, grow big plants, and have your six plants occupy 60 s.f. (or more) with several thousand watts (or more) of light.

Now to add my to the yield/time debate:

In order to grow vigorously, a plant needs a large, well-developed root system to absorb water/oxygen/nutes, and tons of leaf-surface area to synthesize new carbs (photosynthesis and all that rot). Consequently, a plant's rate of growth increases as it grows in size, because a larger plant has more root mass and more leaf-surface area. Which, in turn, allows said plant to synthesize more carbs -- in other words, Bigger Plant = More Photosynthesis = More Growth. Thus, the increase in yield realized by adding several additional weeks of vegetative growth is proportionally larger than the yield realized by the same number of weeks in early vegetative stage. Think snowball rolling down a mountain - rate of growth increases with size.

For example, if you veg a plant for 3 weeks and it yields 3-4 oz, vegging the same plant for six weeks (double the veg stage) will yield more than double the yield (say 10-11 oz). The same thing would hold true with a 4 week veg time, say a plant vegged for 4 weeks yields 6 oz., the same plant vegged for 8 weeks can yield over a pound.

This is from personal experience, as I grow large plants and run a staggered harvest. When I set up a new garden I put smaller plants into flower while I wait for the rest to veg longer, with new plants added every 4-8 days, depending on the schedule. So I get to measure the yield of a given strain with veg times from a few days up to around 7-9 weeks. And this ain't my first rodeo. I should also note that I never veg longer than 12 weeks (just too big ), and the point of diminishing returns is out there somewhere and it's different for every strain, so don't veg for six months and say it was my idea.

Edit:

Also, put 1ks on light rails, and your light distribution problem is solved. You have light from many more angles than with stationary bulbs, even if you use several stationary bulbs. I did use 600s (horizontally) back in the day, cuz it was illegal no matter how many plants I had then. I still used movers though. Best single thing I've ever done to increase yields. A little better than co2 even, imho.

Regarding the Ebb and Grow -- up until recently, I had worked at at growshop for quite a while, and the Ebb & Grow is tied with the Waterfarm 8 for my least favorite pre-fab system ever (that's still available), and I've used almost all of them. Huge PITA to clean, and poor performance. A simple drip system will significantly outperform it (and dripper's are way cheaper), hydroton, rockwool, or coco, but I'd recommend coco, it's better for the environment and the has the best root development of the three. Recirculating DWC works well for trees, too, but I'll post about that later.

 

[JustBlazed]

hell of a post Philosophelon. Very thorough of what I assume he wants to do and stay within the law. Who exactly can find out you are a 215 patient? For every other type of prescription you have patient doctor privilege, does this apply to 215 patients a swell? I am asking this because I just moved to SD and want to get the prescription but also want to be able to pass background checks and dont want anyone of importance knowing I am a 215 patient.

 

[Philosophelon]

hell of a post Philosophelon. Very thorough of what I assume he wants to do and stay within the law. Who exactly can find out you are a 215 patient? For every other type of prescription you have patient doctor privilege, does this apply to 215 patients a swell? I am asking this because I just moved to SD and want to get the prescription but also want to be able to pass background checks and dont want anyone of importance knowing I am a 215 patient.

I'm more familiar with CO than with CA law, so you may want to double-check, but I'm pretty sure that I can answer your question. Also, I assume SD is San Diego and not South Dakota .

Anyway, the answer to your question is:

Your doctors and the police, in the event that they need to verify that you are a bona fide patient possessing the proper license and that you have paid your fee, it hasn't expired, etc.

Your doctors will know because it is in your medical records, but physician-patient privilege applies to that. To the best of my knowledge, no one else can access the information, including your employer or police who are not simply checking for verification that it's a real license, i.e., law enforcement can't access you're information first and then go check on you to make sure that you are complying with the law. I don't know whether I'd rely on that (cops being thieving, lying, murdering pieces of shit and all) -- follow the law just in case -- but for sure no civilians will be able to access it.

As for the long post, I get on a roll when I'm baked and talking shop, and since I don't work at a growshop anymore, I gotta get my shop-talkin' rocks off somehow .

 

[Philosophelon]

Hey everyone.. Relatively new to growing, but been reading overgrow and this wonderful site for years in my teens) so I sort of know my shit, however lack experience. This will be my first real indoor...
im 19, prop 215 patient who got kicked out of UCSB lol back home bored as fuck rready to grow!!...

WOO-HOO!!!

Congats, my man!!! I still get almost as excited as I did for my first grow when I'm setting up a new grow, but it's never quite as exciting again!!!

I posted in the thread earlier, and I'll post another one in a minute about vertical lighting and large plants -- but I read that you were 19, which, as it happens, is exactly how old I was when I started growing, and I got super-excited vicariously and had to send you some positive vibes!!!

So here's to your success in your first grow...
And to many safe and productive grows thereafter!!!

 

[Philosophelon]

Hello again. I apologize for semi-hijacking your thread, ajc0k, but I promise I'll keep myself on topic. Also I have a few questions for you.

What is the plant limit (Mature and Immature) that you are trying to maintain?
Can you take a close up picture of the sub-panel in the garage?
Can you take a couple close up pictures of the main breaker panel?


Imho, if you want to use ~2Kw of light, and you're on a budget, you should use horizontal reflectors with 2x1Ks. If you have the money, 3x or 4x600w would have better spread, and are more efficient heat/light.

Use a light mover, whatever lights you use. It's important with large plants to maximize light in the lower regions of the canopy. As far as reflectors go, if you use 1Ks, the 8" Magnum XXXLs will do fine (might be a little big for a 600w), but I'd add a light diffuser below the arc tube to eliminate the hot spot. With wide reflectors you need to be able to put the reflector close to the canopy to maximize light levels.

GROWING HABIT

You're idea of growing bushes is probably the best way to go. The thing about growing with vertical 1Ks is that you need a shitload of space (for the plants), and several (6-7+) bulbs in order for it to be efficient. Because the plants are so large, they (naturally) take up a ton of space, and if you don't have that space well-lit, your buds will be airy and leafy.

I have a spot similar to yours, but in a utility room. It's not big enough for trees, but otherwise just fine, and I put 8 plants under 3x1Ks in old-ass 6" Hydrotek cool-tubes with the reflectors with the shitty mirror-smooth surface, and mounted them on a light rail to distribute the wicked hot spot back and forth. Seriously shitty refletors, but 'twas space gone to waste, and I digress...

I grow them (I top 1-2 times very early in veg and pinch thereafter) into roughly cone-shaped bushes ~2.5' wide and get reasonable bud growth for about 3.5 feet of vertical canopy space, and then it starts to get airy. If you have good reflectors (and you can't even buy reflectors as shitty as mine anymore), you don't have to make the plants cone-shaped, you can have a flat canopy, which will be easier to maintain and more productive.

LST is a great idea for maintaining an ideal growing habit. Just train them to fill the space that you have available divided by the number of plants placed therein.

ROOTING ENVIRINMENT

Since you are growing large plants, it rules out several methods (E&F, NFT, Aero, etc.), so basically you are looking at an Ebb & Grow style bucket system, a Waterfarm style bucket system, a recirculating DWC bucket system, or drippers with coco or hydroton.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the Ebb & Grow and Waterfarm style bucket systems are my two least favorite hydro systems, due to maintenance hassels and relatively poor performance. If you really want to know why I don't like them in detail, I'll tell you, but I don't want to seem like a dickhead listing them all out.

That leaves recirculating DWC and a drip system. A recirc. DWC is, imho, about as high-performance as you can get (aero, fog, etc. aside), but you have to build it yourself, and if you do a sloppy job you'll wind up with a flood later on.

Since it's your first grow, I would recommend a drip system. You could run recirculating or drain-to-waste, whichever you prefer. Drain-to-waste is easier to maintain, but it increases nutrient costs over a recirculating setup. I have switched almost entirely to dtw coco drippers to minimize maintanence, and (now that I've got shit dialed in) I honestly can't discern any slower growth with coco, except maybe the first 6-10 days of veg, than with recirc dwc (hence my switch), and it's easier and cheaper to set up, easier to modify, less potential for shit to go wrong, and so on.

I run 1:1 coco to perlite (chunky fox farm... they make good perlite). But straight coco (or 3:1, or 2:1, etc.) works as well, it just depends how fast you want it to dry out, and how much CEC you want your rooting medium to have.

Uhh... If ya have any other questions, ask. I apologize for the rather lengthy posts, but I'm in a very good mood today, and you reminded me of my first grow!!!

 

[ajc0k]

wow my brotha cant thank you enough for all that, no worries on hijacking im soaking up the info. thats awesome u started at my age too lol yea now im considering coco pot drip now 4x8 table coco seems pretty interesting, could i grow just as big as a ebb nd grow bucket set up? i would do rdwc in a heart beat but the cost of the set up plus a rez chiller seems a little steep and i thought about the rez changes would i have to disconnect every single bucket and empty it out? ebb and grow seems easier. drip seems easier than both lol.

If i do ebb and gro buckets as planned or possibly coco drip ill be trying to run either 18 (9 plants per 1k) or 24 under the three 600's. i checked out light rails online i can only run two lamps with one motor and i really would only want to buy one. so it comes down to 2000 watts magnum hoods on a rail or 1800 watts stationed.. 1800 seems nice with 600/400 nextgen ballast so i can run 1200 watts mh in veg, BUT, what about the penetration of the 1k's thats where im stuck..


my apologies if it doesnt make much sense im really baked right now just bought me a new bong. i didnt pay for this so it didn't come out of my grow budget. my old man felt bad and gave me cash for a new one hes way chill.I was never into that name brand shit roor, phx, hurricane i had a real cool local blown bong until a fork fell off my table and cracked the joint. i stopped by haight ashbury saw this bong 7mm thick glass i had to have it like unbreakable lol. got it pretty cheap ive never had a smoother hit in my life god damn roor lives up to its reputation after all im in love with it. chillin on my big ass mid 90's old ac unit

 

[Philosophelon]

could i grow just as big as a ebb nd grow bucket set up?

Absolutely. I use 10 gal pots, and grow very large plants with coco drippers. As long as you use at least 3 drip stakes to saturate all the media (4 if you have very wide pots), you can grow HUGE plants with coco drippers. And I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but you will DEFINITELY have faster growth and higher yields than with an ebb and gro, and it's cheaper to set up.

Allow me to elaborate on the Ebb & Grow, maintenance hassles aside. The reason for slow growth vs. a standard E&F table (imho) is as follows:

With a standard ebb and flow table, it is possible (and highly advisable) to flood and drain as quickly as possible to maximize O2 in the rhizoshere. With a large pump and multiple E&F fittings per table, this can be accomplished in a matter of minutes (like 2 or 3).

With the Ebb & Grow, the buckets take ~15 minutes (with only 12 buckets) to fill, and even longer to drain, so your plants are sitting in the nutrient sol'n for over 30 minutes every flood and drain cycle. If you use more buckets, the problem is compounded. If you highly oxygenate the reservoir, it will help mitigate the problem, but there is no possible way to deliver maximum O2 to the roots if they are sitting in still water for over half an hour several times a day.

I checked out light rails online i can only run two lamps with one motor and i really would only want to buy one.

That is just because the add-a-lamp kit they sell only allows you to add one more light. I've frequently run 3 reflectors per Light Rail 3.5, even with heavy reflectors like cool tubes. Just buy a square aluminum pole, and mount all three reflectors to it, and then hang the pole with the reflectors already attached from the light rail.

If you aren't comfortable doing that, the Light Rail 5 is designed for many more reflectors, and has a much wider track and higher quality motor. It's also more expensive, though.

Seriously though, I wouldn't worry about hanging 3 reflectors from a LR3.5 -- I've done up to 5, but they were PLs, and weighed next to nothing.


As far as the penetration factor is concerned -- How deep do you want the canopy to be?

600s will be enough penetration (plus ~80% of the total light, with ~60% of the heat compared to 1Ks) for ~2.5'-3' thick canopy. Keep in mind that a mover also significantly improves penetration due to the fact that your light shines from so many angles, plus you can place the arc tube closer to the canopy, because the hot-spots move back and forth.

I used 600s for most of my career. If electrical consumption is a concern, I would definitely go with 600s. The only reason I use 1ks is because I generally grow trees with vertical bulbs now, and I'm not worried about my elec. consumption.

P.S. -- That is a sexy bong, my friend!

P.P.S. -- Are you air-cooling the hoods? On second thought, Magnum XXXLs with the glass are probably heavy as fuck, so you may actually need the Light Rail 5 model for 3 hoods. It's worth the extra $ for peace of mind anyway, imo. If you want to use the LR3.5 is there any way you could use somewhat smaller reflectors?

P.P.P.S. -- Here is a link to one of my favorite coco threads. Grat3fulh3ad is one of the most knowledgeable and experienced growers around here. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55683

 

[ajc0k]

3 - 600's or 2 1000's? both on movers. 24 bucket rdwc

3 - 600's or 2 1000's? both on movers. 24 bucket rdwc

hey guys, correction on title, it's four 600's versus two 1000's. i've decided to do a 24 bucket blazeoneup setup rdwc. so i was wondering which of the following two would bring more bud weight? i figured with 2 - 1000's in magnum hoods on a mover i could line the system up 8 buckets each row, 3 rows. . but what about 4 - 600's on 2 movers? what would be the best way to arrange the buckets? four rows of six? would they yield more than the 1000's? 2400 watts vs 2000

 

[Philosophelon]

4x 600w will give you better yields, and require less energy to cool. 600s are more efficient power/light and light/heat than 1000s, you will have twice as many point sources of light (more efficient because it spreads the light more evenly), and you'll have an extra 400w of light.

The ONLY drawback to 4x 600w vs. 2x 1000w is that it will cost almost twice as much for bulbs/ballasts/reflectors. But if you have the cash, definitely go with 4x 600w.

Also, 4 rows of 6 buckets will work just fine. You can pretty much set up the buckets however they will best fit in your space. What size/shape canopy are you going for?

 

[ajc0k]

edit

 

[irieeyes808]

I think 4 x 600 Next gens will kick ass that should be a nice mid size set up. What size fan are you using for exhaust? 3ft. is perfect hopefully finish out around 4 1/2 to 5 ft.? What's the size ouf your room?

 

[ajc0k]

I think 4 x 600 Next gens will kick ass that should be a nice mid size set up. What size fan are you using for exhaust? 3ft. is perfect hopefully finish out around 4 1/2 to 5 ft.? What's the size ouf your room?

Yea the Nextgen's seem nice, i absolutely love the idea of 600/400 combo rather than vegging under 2000 watts MH!!
The room i'm using is a garage.the pics are on original post if you would like to see it all messy and not cleaned up. The dimensions for the entire garage are much bigger because there is a storage loft above. But i'll be dividing the room with black/white poly using dimensions: 16'L x 10'W x 8'H.
I'm going to use 6" cooled hydrofarm radiant hoods found in link below. that site has the cheapest prices on everything, including the ballasts.
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics...c-reflector-wglass-15ft-lamp-cord-p-2115.html

Four 6 inch hoods with an 8 inch Canfan/vortex ceiling mounted for exhaust, connected via 8" x 6" x 6" Y splitter. A 6 inch fan scrubbing the room 24 hours a day.

 

[Philosophelon]

Hello again, my friend. Good news, those aren't nanners. Staminate flowers look like little yellow bananas before the flowers open, when you see one, you'll know -- they look quite different from the fuzzy little fused style/stigmas that are present on the pistillate flowers.

Regarding ideal canopy depth with 600s on rails, 2.5' - 3' is about the max you want, at 3', the lower buds will be a little fluffy, but it still adds to your overall yield. I'd shoot for 2.5', and if they wind up a few (<6') inches taller than you intended, it's no bid deal. If the canopy winds up being deeper than 3', just trim off the lower growth or Bushmaster it to keep it at 3'.

Regarding plant size when flowering is initiated, assuming that those are 5 gal buckets in the picture, the plants are probably larger than ideal for your setup (they appear to have ~6.25 sf [~2.5'x2.5'] per plant, plus a lot of headroom). Of course, some phenos stretch more than others, and if you have a super low-stretch pheno, that might be an ideal size. Also, bear in mind that you will want to put each different pheno in at a different time, so that they wind up about the same size and shape when they finish.

There is no good rule of thumb for figuring out the ideal veg time, you just have to experiment a little. If I put a plant into flowering and realize later that it is going to be too big, I just use Bushmaster (1-3ml/gal) to stop vertical growth, and I put that pheno in sooner next time. Conversely, if a plant winds up too small when it finishes, I veg that pheno longer the next time. A good place to start is to look up grow reports or go to the breeders forums and ascertain how much a given strain will generally tend to stretch in flowering, and then tweak it from there for your particular setup and style of training.

Also, 16x10 is way too big for 2400w. That would only be 15 wpsf -- you should probably shoot for at least triple that. And make sure that you lock, seal, and insulate the garage door (so it's like another wall) to minimize IR detectability and the threat of rippers.

Edit: I was just helping a small-scale personal grower, and he mentioned that yield was far from a high priority for him, which is something I tend to forget about when giving advice. If you are growing strictly for quality and/or want only dense, larger buds, keep the canopy shorter (1.5'-2' max) and trim off all the little popcorn buds around the bottom of the plants. I grow them taller because I like to have any extra weight that I can get, and I actually prefer to have mostly medium to small colas -- virtually no chance of mold or bud rot, easier to dry and cure, easier to weigh out exact portions, etc.

Although I always have a few big ones for the Captain's cupboard .

 

[DeJa]

Haha damn 2400 watts seems nice thanks bro for the response. Wow after rereading my thread i've come to realization that I've made lots of progress on reading up ol thanks to kind people such as yourself. With that settled, I'll be running 4 nextgen 600/400 ballast for 1600 watts mh veg/2400 hps flower. I'm so excited to get dialed in I can't fuckin wait because i have some of rez's genetics ready to pop when the time is right (chemdawg bx#2, wonderhaze, and williams wonder ix4 and def. the sour diesel ibl when released again). Until then, I'll be working with clones, GDP, purple kush, and blue dream.

The price isn't devastating in comparison to the 1000's, i honestly always find ways to scrounge of any number of cash, on top of working during the summer, it's easy come easy go and I'm planning on going pretty much all out so money thankfully isn't the biggest concern. i've definitely found the cheapest hydro sites possible as well!!

SUp aj, good to see another cali medical patient.

can u post back with those hydro sites please..

also thebigtomato.com is having a special this month, spend over $400 and you get 25% off

crazy deals bro


Also, any suggestions on dispensaries around frisco?

i will need to get some meds next time i am up there and i always find myself going to purple heart

i'd like to try somewhere new


Lastly, Can you guys enlighten me on the nextgen 600/400

is this some type of dual ballast?

im planning a grow with 600hps/400 super blue MH

that ballast sounds perfect for me.. seems like it would save me $150 compared to buying two lumateks, which is what ive been planning on

does it support both mh and hps?


thanks much