Building an IC69 Heat Exchanger

[montroller]

I don't understand an ic69 in a warm bath unless you are creating head pressure and don't want to warm a full tank.

I have seen a couple people doing this and I think it is a pretty good idea. The pump puts out crazy hot vapor and since you are already trying to heat your recovery bath you can use a separate coil in there to help heat the water.

It also has the added bonus of chilling the vapor a little bit before your coil that is in ice water. That way the ice water stays cool longer.

 

[cerkilr]

I'm looking at a set up like this:

100# manchester tank w/. 3/4" valves > 1/4" hose > 1/2" x 50' chiller > 3/8" hose to injection.

After the collection pot it will go 1/2" hose > 1/2" x 25' evap coil in warm bath > 1/2" hose > haskel > 1/2" hose > 1/2" x 50' post chiller coil > 1/2" hose > tank

I'm planning to put paramount ball valves at the inlet and exit of each coil. I'm looking at the options on the custom coil site. They show a photo of a coil in a pot with bulkhead compression fittings on their site, so I'm hoping they will just sell it to me like that.

I'm planning to use either ice and water or DI and alcohol depending on the temps I'm trying to reach on that run. I'm going to insulate the pot with neoprene. Can anyone see any reasons to modify this idea? If so, what and why?

Thanks,

GH

is this what you are referring to? i was looking at this.
http://stainlessbrewing.3dcartstore...s-request-035-304304L-Coiled-Tubing_p_30.html

 

[cerkilr]

hydrosun do you use these? i know i seen your originally posted it.

 

[Permacultuure]

I use 50' 1/2" everywhere. Why would you use less coil lenght or width?

Also after recovery pot to filter dryer, to recover pump, to ic69 cooling coil.

I don't understand an ic69 in a warm bath unless you are creating head pressure and don't want to warm a full tank.

I hope you buy a bad ass custom piece from stainlessbrewing.com I really need to get them on the phone and discuss custom options.

The 25' x 3/8" just plenty good on mybrecovery for two trs21s or a Haskel. The longer length and wider diameter mean more solvent required. Also a 1/2" may not be as efficient as 3/8" IMO, no science to back that up though

 

[gholladay]

Cerkilr, yes.

Montroller and Hydrosun,

So I actually got the idea for the evaporator coil from Carla Kay. When we killed our first RG6000 she suggested using a coil in a warm bath to make sure that no liquid butane makes it to the pump. It's a protective measure to ensure all of the butane is in a vapor phase. She has implemented this and it has protected her pumps from failure.

Now I have heard recently where GW was talking about using the coil around the collection pot on Joe's system. This is a cool idea too, but wasn't really my intention.

The one thing I don't know for a fact (because I don't have it in hand yet) is if that is really necessary for the haskel. I can't see why it would hurt though.

Perma, while the 1/2" coil will certainly hold more tane, the science says that the 1/2" should be more efficient as a heat exchanger because it has more surface area to transfer the heat with. I'm just hoping I don't run into some weird pressure drop issues having all these coils, but that's why I wanted to upsize the lines to 1/2" on the back side.

GH

 

[GratefulOne]

Given the same flow rate and coil length- the dwell time is longer in the 1/2 vs the 3/8. More surface area and more time both equal more heat exchange.

 

[cerkilr]

thank you

 

[cerkilr]

i have a question, if you guys don't mind.
again this is all new to me and i just want to make sure i have it all correct before i even try.

so vapor comes out of the collection pot to the tr21 and out to the storage tank, the IC69 is placed between the tr21 and the storage tank, to chill the tane from heat picked up by the recovery pump?

others are talking about adding a second from collection tank to tr21 in warm water just to make sure no liquid is pulled into pump?

again i am just trying to make sure i have this down. please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Pure777Extracts]

adept is that a 50' 1/2" coil?

50' -3/8, But I just ordered 1/2' because I plan to use the 3/8 as a prechiller.

 

[Hydrosun]

hydrosun do you use these? i know i seen your originally posted it.

I have ordered from those guys and have an IC69 that another icmager wrenched together from them.

They are who I recommend right now.

 

[Hydrosun]

Cerkilr, yes.

Montroller and Hydrosun,

So I actually got the idea for the evaporator coil from Carla Kay. When we killed our first RG6000 she suggested using a coil in a warm bath to make sure that no liquid butane makes it to the pump. It's a protective measure to ensure all of the butane is in a vapor phase. She has implemented this and it has protected her pumps from failure.

Now I have heard recently where GW was talking about using the coil around the collection pot on Joe's system. This is a cool idea too, but wasn't really my intention.

The one thing I don't know for a fact (because I don't have it in hand yet) is if that is really necessary for the haskel. I can't see why it would hurt though.

Perma, while the 1/2" coil will certainly hold more tane, the science says that the 1/2" should be more efficient as a heat exchanger because it has more surface area to transfer the heat with. I'm just hoping I don't run into some weird pressure drop issues having all these coils, but that's why I wanted to upsize the lines to 1/2" on the back side.

GH

I love Carla, but disagree that liquid butane can make it to the recovery pump UNLESS you flood the ENTIRE recover pot. I know Carla didn't make the post so my disagreement is only with a theoretical discussion.

 

[gholladay]

I love Carla, but disagree that liquid butane can make it to the recovery pump UNLESS you flood the ENTIRE recover pot. I know Carla didn't make the post so my disagreement is only with a theoretical discussion.

Hydro,

I would've agreed with you until I killed my pump.. Apparently we had enough splatter going on to suck some small amount of liquid tane into the pump.. (cause I REALLY doubt we filled the entire collection pot with butane. I don't even think we had enough tane for that in the tank. This was on an MKiii with a 6" x 12" basin and only ~9 lbs of tane in the tank). It could've been something else that killed our pump, but I think the liquid was the culprit.

Isn't sucking liquid into the recovery pump the main source of killing these kind of electric pumps?

Maybe I don't need this when I'm using a haskel, but I haven't had anyone tell me otherwise yet so it was still in my plan.

EDIT: I went and looked at the haskel PDF again and it definitely says it's capable of pumping liquid as well. So maybe this evap coil isn't necessary. I had it in my head that I was going to put one on this system after Carla's recommendation, but maybe I don't need it. Would love to hear from some haskel owners on this one. Perhaps this evap coil is only useful when you need it to protect an electric pump.

 

[GratefulOne]

Hydro,

I would've agreed with you until I killed my pump.. Apparently we had enough splatter going on to suck some small amount of liquid tane into the pump.. (cause I REALLY doubt we filled the entire collection pot with butane. I don't even think we had enough tane for that in the tank. This was on an MKiii with a 6" x 12" basin and only ~9 lbs of tane in the tank). It could've been something else that killed our pump, but I think the liquid was the culprit.

Isn't sucking liquid into the recovery pump the main source of killing these kind of electric pumps?

Did your lid have a down tube extended to the bottom of the 6x12 or was the lid made for a 6x6 spool?

 

[A6 Grower]

It wasnt liquid butane that killed your pump. It was oil/butane mist. The hot coil or expansion chamber is used after collection pot before pump to give any of that mist a hot place to stick and let just the butane vapor go threw. Its not liquid that these pumps dont like, its INCONSISTENT liquid pressure that they dont like, they pump liquid just fine, if its got proper pressure behind it and doesnt run out.

 

[gholladay]

Did your lid have a down tube extended to the bottom of the 6x12 or was the lid made for a 6x6 spool?

GO,

It was a standard terpp style MKiii lid and we added an additional 6"x6" spool to the bottom to make it 12" tall. The main dump and the vent line have down tubes, the vacuum recovery port does not. We ran too many columns back to back without cleaning out the earl. We think this contributed to the high degree of splatter. When cleaning up we found a good deal of hash oil in our recovery piping leaving the collection basin. There wasn't any noticeable amount of hash oil on the hose going to the pump though. When we started up the next day, our pump started venting butane gas through the front grille. I think we must have messed up a seal or something. Unfortunately we didn't have time before we left town to take apart the pump and diagnose it properly. I called Carla that night and she said the most likely culprit was having liquid/oil get to the pump and recommended the evap coil.

EDIT: OK A6 nailed it. ^^
GH

 

[gholladay]

It wasnt liquid butane that killed your pump. It was oil/butane mist. The hot coil or expansion chamber is used after collection pot before pump to give any of that mist a hot place to stick and let just the butane vapor go threw. Its not liquid that these pumps dont like, its INCONSISTENT liquid pressure that they dont like, they pump liquid just fine, if its got proper pressure behind it and doesnt run out.

A6, well said! That's what I was trying to get across. So do you think this evap coil is still a good idea to have with a Haskel, or is there less of a need for this?

GH

 

[GratefulOne]

If the down tube is not extended for a 12" spool the oil will splatter and mist. This enters the recovery port.

 

[A6 Grower]

I dont think the coil is needed for pre recovery pump. BUT a molecular sieve and water trap is freaking awesome to have infront of your pump.

About the lid thing and the 12" tall pot, you can run with the short down tubes you just have to open your valves VERY slow lol. Or else as grateful said, you'll splatter shit everywhere in you pot and will most likely suck up suck oil mist.

 

[gholladay]

I dont think the coil is needed for pre recovery pump. BUT a molecular sieve and water trap is freaking awesome to have infront of your pump.

About the lid thing and the 12" tall pot, you can run with the short down tubes you just have to open your valves VERY slow lol. Or else as grateful said, you'll splatter shit everywhere in you pot and will most likely suck up suck oil mist.

Haha yup! Learned that one the hard way. We knew to throttle the valves, but we didn't give it enough credence. That on top of running too many columns and having too much liquid in the bottom got us. The evap coil would've saved our pump I think.

I'm planning to put a standard filter drier before the pump to start and then work on building one of those once it's been R&D'd a little more and I have a little more time.

Thanks again for all the input guys. I love this forum!

GH

 

[GratefulOne]

Easy pre pump trap:

6"x6" spool with the terp III lid. Go in the 1.5" Tri Clamp and out the 3/8" pipe with no down tube. Cap off the 1/4" pipe. You could even add stainless ribbon (commercial scrub pads) packed into the spool to make sure nothing got through.

The same could be used for a water trap after the condenser coil. You would need to clean out the water from time to time or add a drain.

I think GW is running this set up for a water trap on a 6"x12" spool. Check his posts.