Budhownd's Amazon Grow

[Guest]

Oh damn Bud, I'm feeling guilty...you posted up a problem and I wasn't around to help.

Ph control is fundamental, as you've discovered. Bad pH over extended periods of time will lock out nutes, causing you to overfert (hence the claw leaves) to try and solve the problem, and just end up adding insult to injury. When you see claw...FLUSH! I also suspect that the blood and bone meal you mixed in with your soil is too much in proportion. Being a slow release type of additive, it stays in your soil and over time supplies micro-nutes to your plants. I think that you have put too much to allow you to do any more than very very diluted ferting (1/4 - 1/6 strength), but not so much that it makes your plants suffer when you don't fert.

How many ladies we got?

Question: Sometimes the water comes outta tha faucet between 6.5 and 6.7 or 6.8 which is fine, but there are times when I have to adjust the pH of the water myself.
Will it hurt the girls if I keep having to add pH down to the water in order to get it to an optimum pH level?

Answer: Won't hurt your plants at all used correctly. You can use it every watering if you need to!

My Question: What are you using to check your pH? A pH pen? If not, its your next small investment (the pens don't cost a fortune). Liquid pH testers are very unreliable, and can do well in a pinch, but not as your only means of controlling pH.

Another question: Have we discussed RO water already? If not, let me know and we'll get into it

Also, one of the males was in some of the soil that I bought from Wal Mart. This soil is very... dense, I guess you could say. Not airy at all, even with the perlite I added to it. When I looked at the root ball of this plant I noticed that the soil was bone dry all the way thru. However, the pot itself felt heavy as if I had just watered the plant. One of my amazons is in this same soil and her pot feels very heavy.

You pinpointed the problem perfectly. Your soil has compacted, it has little air circulation because it isn't sufficiently aerated and probably of poor quality. When you water that particular plant, water her first from above, normally, till the water runs out the bottom, then take her out of the grow, fill a basin with pH corrected water to about 1/3 the height of the pot, and let her sit in there for about 20 minutes before replacing her in the grow. Get a feel for the well watered pot. If you think its heavy now, when the soil is nice and wet, you'll tell the difference! Remember which plant is in the "heavier" soil, and gauge her pot weight differently from the others. Shouldn't take you more than one or two waterings to get the right "feel" for her too. Plants in different periods of growth have different necessities of water. Towards the end of flower its best to reduce waterings, but around the 3 - 5 week of flower they'll drink like mofo's and its good to give them what they need . Don't take for granted that you'll always be needing to water your plants at set intervals, it don't work that way :wink:

Your moisture meter needs to be pushed to about 3 inches from the bottom of the pot, almost all the way down. Careful Bud, you got roots growing around in there, and you need to be very delicate. Don't ever let your plants get to the point of drooping before adding water, sometimes its fatal!

One of my amazons is in this same soil and her pot feels very heavy.
I recently watered her so I know the heaviness I feel is water not just the soil.

If you're unsure as to whether or not your soil is still moist, wait a day or two, depending on how moist you think it still is, and then water. Cannabis roots enjoy a day of completely dry soil (which translates into more oxygen for the roots) and will not suffer without water for a day. Its a plant which generally prefers dry to moist as far as soil goes. Frequent enough waterings to meet her needs, and no more.

Have I redeemed myself? Forgiven?
A wonderful weekend to you Bud!

And THAT is lovely!

 

[budhownd]

Oh damn Bud, I'm feeling guilty...you posted up a problem and I wasn't around to help.

Naw, no need for feelin guilty. I'm just glad to see ya back.

Ph control is fundamental, as you've discovered.

Boy, have I.

I think that you have put too much to allow you to do any more than very very diluted ferting (1/4 - 1/6 strength), but not so much that it makes your plants suffer when you don't fert.

Yea, I think so too. I didn't ralize how slow the release of it into the soil would be. I've been feeding at 1/8 an no more than 1/4 strength with the Fox Farms Big Bloom. All organic.

How many ladies we got?

Three!!

BUT one of them hermied on me. I think. It has the same lil balls on it that the boys did, but therez pistils with tha lil hairs all over too.
So, against all the advice I've read in other threads, I kept her and started pulling balls. So, far nothing has popped up on the other two girls and even if it does, I think I can live with it.

My Question: What are you using to check your pH?

It's a Rapitest pH tester. It's a box hooked up to a probe an ya stick tha probe down in tha dirt and the lil hand swings all crazy-like.

Another question: Have we discussed RO water already? If not, let me know and we'll get into it

I don't think we have. I've seen the term in a few threads here and there.

Have I redeemed myself? Forgiven?

Sure! Thanks for all tha great info. I'll definitely water that "heavy soil" plant from the top and bottom.

A wonderful weekend to you Bud!

You too, Indi! Take care.

Buddy

 

[Guest]

Yo Bud, hope you're having a nice Sunday! :smile:

Hre we go:

Yea, I think so too. I didn't ralize how slow the release of it into the soil would be. I've been feeding at 1/8 an no more than 1/4 strength with the Fox Farms Big Bloom. All organic.

Slow release ferts are verrrrry slow release, meaning they'll remain in your soil and release nutes for months. You have to be really careful about proportions when you go mixing them into your soil. I personally do NOT use them. You've also found out the hard way that overfert occurs with organics the same as it does with chemical nutes. Just because its labelled "organic" doesn't mean more is better.

Three ladies is great, but hermies are not. If your hermie put out just a few balls, its OK to snip them, but if it continues to produce them IMO you should kill that plant, or you'll be heavily risking ending up with seeded weed. "I think I can live with it" are famous last words....I had my first hermie (!) in 5 years of growing last time round, and the bitch put out only two flowers, which however managed to pollinate the entire plant....and only the grace of God shining down kept the other plants in with her from getting pollinated.

It's a Rapitest pH tester. It's a box hooked up to a probe an ya stick tha probe down in tha dirt and the lil hand swings all crazy-like.

Not reliable Bud. Ditch it and buy yourself a pH pen. Not only are those not reliable, they're made to measure the soil pH and will give incorrect readings IMO for water, which is probably why your pH from the faucet seems to fluctuate so wildly.

RO water is purified water obtained through the process of reverse osmosis. They sell RO water in acquarium stores, and over in my part of the world, distilled water (from the grocery store) is obtained through the same process (states on the label "obtained through the process of reverse osmosis") and that's what I use. RO water is water from which the metals, salts, and minerals have been removed. It is pH stable at 6.0, does not fluctuate, and is perfect to help solve pH issues in soil. I personally use a mixture of 50% RO water, and 50% tap water at every watering, which brings my tap water pH down to about 6.3 - 6.5. If you use pure RO water to water your plants, you'll need to be giving them regular feedings of micronutes and trace elements, which are present in tap water, but not in RO water, and your plants NEED these minerals, etc. for healthy growth.

That's it for now! Happy growin' and catch ya soon :smile:

 

[budhownd]

Hay Indigo. Hope you had a great Monday.




Slow release ferts are verrrrry slow release, meaning they'll remain in your soil and release nutes for months. You have to be really careful about proportions when you go mixing them into your soil. I personally do NOT use them.

No? Wow. Folks are always swearing by blood and bone meal. That's what you mean by slow release nutes, right?

I had my first hermie (!) in 5 years of growing last time round, and the bitch put out only two flowers, which however managed to pollinate the entire plant....and only the grace of God shining down kept the other plants in with her from getting pollinated.

Damn, that's a great record with no hermies. With all I've heard about the unstable nature of bagseed genes, I'm not surprised it happened to my girl. Damn, she's my biggest.

Not reliable Bud. Ditch it and buy yourself a pH pen.

Mkay. I'll start my hunt for one today.


in my part of the world, distilled water (from the grocery store) is obtained through the same process (states on the label "obtained through the process of reverse osmosis") and that's what I use.

Yea, I can get distilled water from the grocery store, too. Well, I'm off to find the pen and get some new water. As always, thanks for all the help, Indigo.
Take care and have a GREAT evening.

Buddy

 

[Guest]

Hey Bud, Hope you're well today! :smile:

Blood and bone meal are organic slow release fets, any kind of additives that you mix in with your soil will be slow release. They are also both excellent, in the right proportions, and with plants past the seedling stage (after first 10 days :wink. I use neither because I buy a premixed soil mix, and if you're curious as to the composition, here it is:

Black and red peat 51%
Humus (worm castings) 12%
Peruvian Bat guano 4%
Perlite 25%
Volcanic sand 5%
Trichoderm (beneficial bacteria) 3%

The above mix is an "all grow", indicated for both veg and flower (but not for seedlings), and is light enough on the nutrients that I can add diluted ferts throughout the entire cycle without risking overfert. Blood and bone meal are excellent as I said, but only in the right proportions, and you wouldn't want to add them to a soil which is already complete, such as the one I use. :wink:

No hermies for me until now is for a number of reasons:
1. I use normal seeds, no female or feminized
2. No light leaks in my grow
3. Evidently I don't stress my plants :smile:

Your hermies may be due to the bagseed, but also due to the stress your plants went through this time round.

For the RO water, when you go to the spermarket, read the label. If its obtained through reverse osmosis, it'll say so :wink: Remember what I said about using straight RO water versus mixing with tap. If you use the straight RO water all the time, you need to be giving regular light feedings of trace elements too. If you mix it with tap water, this won't be necessary. RO water was the solution to all my pH problems when I started mixing with my tap water, a real revelation! :smile:

When you get the pH pen, start taking some real readings of your runoff water, your tap water, and the distilled water....you'll be flabbergasted at the difference in readings between the probe and the pen!

 

[Guest]

Hey Bud....how's it goin' girl? I guess OK as you haven't popped back in :smile:

Let me know if everything's goin' all right, I've been checking the thread regularly just in case....

 

[budhownd]

Hay Indi!

How ya doin?

Things are going ok so far. At day 24 of flower, the lil amazons are still growing up instead of ... um out. Out? I dunno.
One of them has reached at least 5 feet and fareal I think it's more than that. The very top of her main stem comes up to my eyes and I'm 5'7-5'8-ish. Hmmmm. I kinda figgered they were all gonna be indicas.
No smell to this one unless I rub her main stalk. Her leaves are a nice rich green color and she seems to enjoy the feeding schedule that I'm sticking to. No problems out of her except that she's makin me worry that I won't have the head room she needs.
The other is short and smelly. I can see trichomes on the leaves surrounding the bud. She's still a lil light in color, but the leaves around the bud are a darker green. She seems happy tho, so I'm not gonna screw with her. She gobbles up the nutes I give her and is always ready for more.
All in all they're doing well.

Um, being bagseed, I don't really have anything to draw from as far as knowing how long to let them go. I've read that I should wait until 75% of the trichs have turned amber. I've read to wait until they are cloudy. I've read to let em go until I don't see anymore growth from the buds. As you can see, I've read alot and all those things I read were for "known" strains, not bagseed. Got any suggestions? I figger I'm gonna have to invest in a loupe or a microscope of some sort. I haven't been able to pick up the pH pen just yet. I got a few bills to pay first. So, I'm trying to keep the pH level adjusted the best that I can. : /

*sigh* I guess that's it. At least that's all my tired brains can think of at the moment. I know I have more questions floating around the flotsam and jetsam that composes my gray thinking matter, I just caint think of em right now. LoL. Lucky you. Yer saved from having to read another of my novels disguised as a thread post.

Hope yer having a great week, Indi. You take care over there cross tha water.

peace

Bud

 

[Guest]

Hey Bud, glad to hear things are going well! :smile:

You can expect your plants to stop stretching within a couple of weeks or so. They'll slow vertical growth dramatically and start working on plumping the buds. Your bagseed was not a pure indica, but what looked to be an indica dom hubrid. Indica dom plants can be quite small, and some can get quite large, though nothing comparable to a sativa.

If you get really worried about headroom, let me know as there are a couple of techniques to help gain inches :wink:

As far as the Hamletic "to chop, or not to chop...", first rule of thumb...keep this one in mind always: If you think they're ready...wait a week!

When the plant is done, there is what is called a "window" during which the plant has reached optimum maturity to be chopped. This window is anywhere from 3 days to 7 - 10 days, depending on the strain. A trained eye and knowledge of the strain performance can pick out the best time for chop.

That is for future reference, as you don't yet have knowledge of strains, how they perform, and you're growing from bagseed. In your case, keeping an eye on the trichs is the best way. Radio Shack sells a handy dandy little scope with a built in light, costs like USD$25.00, and it works just fine. You need something which magnifies up to 30X, which is more or less the optimum for viewing the trichs. You can chop on the basis of the desired effects. If you prefer a more head buzz, active and more towards a sativa effect, you chop when your trichs are almost all cloudy, a few still clear, but with no amber trichs showing yet. If you want a more balanced effect, chop when you have a few amber trichs, if you like a more couchlock body stone, chop when you have a good 10% or so amber trichs. Don't let them go too long, otherwise you're weed will just give you a headache and put you to sleep.

Before I bought a microscope, I used to judge from the pistils, which is not very accurate, but will do in a pinch. The rule above about wait a week will hold particularly true if you're going by pistils to judge when they're done.
I would chop when I had 70-80% pistils with a change of color and atrophied, but I'd look at the buds too, to be sure. If they looked like they'd still plump up, I'd let them go more, even if the pistils indicated they might be ready.

LOL...seems like the both of us write novels here....we could condense this into a how to grow basics book, publish it, and make lots of money LMAO!

Have a nice one Bud!

 

[budhownd]

The amazons at 30 days

The amazons at 30 days

Hey Indi.

Just droppin by to post a few pics of the galz after being in 12/12 for 30 days. Well, it was 30 days on Sunday but, this is the soonest I could figure out how to get the pics up.

both of the galz:



this second one shows (a lil) how far away the light is from the top of the taller plant. I've since put the shorter one on a stand to make it even with the taller one.




This is the main cola of the taller plant.



The main cola of the shorter plant.



Budsites on the taller plant.






A budsite on the shorter plant. I think. It may be the top of the plant. Hmm... Naw, I'm pretty sure it's a budsite.



I've noticed some of the pistils on the taller plant have turned brown and withered a little. One lil cluster of pistils here or there on a branch, not all over the plant. I caint figger out why it's happening. Except for maybe the buds are too far from the light, since they are on the lower part of the plant. Hmmmm..... Other than that they are doing ok. The smaller one is starting to fatten up a lil bit and I think the taller one has stopped her upward growth spurt.

I'm estimating they'll need another three or four weeks at the least. I'm gonna get the microscope as soon as I can and I still need to get my hands on that pH pen. *sigh*

Ah well. It's worth the expense just knowing I didn't have to pay someone else for my green.

See, Indigo, I can temper my propensity for writing novels. LoL.

Take care and have a great week.

Buddy

 

[Rodriguez]

Those are some nice lookin'girls Bud
Your in good hands with Indigo

 

[Guest]

whassup Rodriguez :smile: My protegé is doing good stuff on her first grow!

Bud, wowzers! Glad to see you got some good pics up, your plants are looking just fine!

I've noticed some of the pistils on the taller plant have turned brown and withered a little. One lil cluster of pistils here or there on a branch, not all over the plant. I caint figger out why it's happening.

I can tell you why. Its early for the pistils to be turning brown and withering. That'll start happening normally about 2 - 3 weeks before the plants are done. The fact that you see withered brown pistils here and there now probably indicates that you hermie plant might have let loose some pollen, and lightly seeded that plant. A plant which has been pollinated will present withered browning pistils on the pollinated bud shortly after it gets hit with pollen. If she's been lightly pollinated, expect to see fairly normal bud growth on the plant, except for the pollinated buds. A plant which has been heavily hit with pollen and is well-seeded will finish flower with very thin, wispy, wimpy buds. And lots of seeds.

The buds on top of the plant will mature before those at the bottom, and pistils should begin changing colors on the top 1/3 of the plant before those on the bottom mature. When harvest time comes around, you might want to consider doing a "step-harvest", which consists in harvesting the top buds which are done, while leaving the bottom buds on the plant and allowing them to mature a few more days to a week before harvesting.

Your plants will probably go another month by the looks of them. The shorter one might finish first....its looking further ahead in flowering than the tall plant. Start checking that one for ripeness starting in two weeks, she might go three, maybe a tad more, maybe a tad less.

I've since put the shorter one on a stand to make it even with the taller one.

You did great, its always best to have your canopy as even as possible to ensure equal amounts of light to your plants. I do the same thing often, as I always grow out more than one strain, with resulting variations in plant height.

Let's take a breif look at training of the plants, to even out the canopy, and increase yeilds. There are two ways to do this.

Tying Method (training):First method is to tie a piece of cord or otherwise soft but resistant string just under the second node from the top of the plant. Drill a small hole on the side of your pot, near the top (lip) of the pot. Hld the string and very gently, very slowly, and very firmly pull it downwards, you'll see that the top of the plant will begin to bend. Pull until the top of the plant is in a range anywhere from 30° to a 45° angle, then keeping the same tension on the string, thread it through the hole in the pot and tie it. Don't remove the string, leave it there. If you intie it the branch with time will tend to go back to its original position. If this is done in veg, your stalks will be supple still, and you'll have less worries about breaking the cola, meaning you can bend to a greater angle, up to 45°. If this is done in flower, your stalks will be harder, more wood-like, and you must be very careful, bend until you feel resistance, up to an angle of 30°.

Pinching Method (supercropping): Place the fingers of one hand on the stalk, as if you were gripping it, anywhere from two nodes to 4 nodes from the top of the plant. Gently start pinching, rolling the stalk between your fingers, until you feel the stalk become soft under your fingers. Gently bend it, you'll find it to be easy as you've crushed the plant matter inside the stalk. Let it sit on its side or almost. After some time you'll see that the plant forms an "elbow" where you bent it, a big lump on the stalk. If your plant has been in flower for a while, you'll see that the stalk is hard, and will take some pinching to soften it up enough to bend.

Both of the above methods are preferably done in veg, but both of them are also extremely effective for evening out canopies, or gaining headroom, and can be done in flower if necessary. I wouldn't opt for pinching after the first month of flower, the stalk gets really hard, and you want to avoid stressing your plants in flower :wink: Both methods also increase yeilds and bud size. The growth tip (or cola, main stalk, etc.) of the plant contains hormones called auxins, which prevent the side branches from growing to the level of the main cola. If you bend the growth tip over, you inhibit the release of these auxins, and the result is that the side branches of your plants will grow to the level of the main cola, and receive the same light exposure. The result is that you get various main colas, instead of just one monster baseball bat type main cola. The various colas will be relatively smaller, but you increase your yeild by at least double or more.

Last thing...remember that these investments are for the most part in the beginning, when you're trying to get your setup and equipment sorted out. PH pens, ballasts, fans, blowers, timers, etc. will last you years. You should replace your bulb once a year, if you have a perpetual harvest setup, every 5 - 6 grows if not. My own grow is one step away from being "complete", after 5 years. My last piece of expensive equipment (the Vaportek for serious odor control) should arrive next week. And I'm already thinking about optimizing by replacing my 400W with a 600W and a digital ballast

As you can see, I write novels in responce to even short posts LOL On the other hand, you're learning, and IMO deserve all the detaied information I can put out there for you. Hope you're soaking it all up. This thread will be an excellent reference for you for your next grows, and hopefully other newbie growers can get some useful information out of it!

Have a nice one!

 

[budhownd]

whassup Rodriguez :smile: My protegé is doing good stuff on her first grow!

HOT DAMN!! I'm a protegé!! I've been taken under a wing!!! Thanks for the kind words Indigo and Rodriguez.

Bud, wowzers! Glad to see you got some good pics up, your plants are looking just fine!

Yea, I got a hold of my housemate's camera.
They look ok? Seriously?? *whew* I was worried they were too small or something.

The fact that you see withered brown pistils here and there now probably indicates that you hermie plant might have let loose some pollen, and lightly seeded that plant.

POLLINATED?!?!? DAMNIT!! That's some
Well, I was hoping that wasn't the prollem, but I kinda suspected that's what it might be. Damn hermie. Damnit. Well, it's just a few here and there, hopefully the plant will be ok.

When harvest time comes around, you might want to consider doing a "step-harvest", which consists in harvesting the top buds which are done, while leaving the bottom buds on the plant and allowing them to mature a few more days to a week before harvesting.

I was wondering if I could do a "step harvest". The buds at the bottom are way small and I know they won't be ready at the same time the top buds will be.

The shorter one might finish first....its looking further ahead in flowering than the tall plant.


I think so too. The tall one seems to want to take her time filling out, but I'm starting to notice the top buds filling out a lil bit.
The leaves around the bud are also getting that "sugary/frosty" look that the smaller one has had for a couple of weeks now. I try really hard not to touch those leaves or the pistils.
Both plants are also very sticky, specially the stems.


Its always best to have your canopy as even as possible to ensure equal amounts of light to your plants.


Yea, but unfortunately, I realized this a month into flower.

I feel more comfortable doing the tie down method. Can I still do it this late in flower? I've never heard of the pinching method. I'll see if I can't drill a few holes and tie a few branches down. Should I be more focused on the lower branches with the smaller buds or do ya think I should chance it with the taller branches? The lower branches are way more pliable than the taller ones, but the taller branches still bend pretty well. I dunno if I should try to bend the main cola. I might break it.

Last thing...remember that these investments are for the most part in the beginning...I'm already thinking about optimizing by replacing my 400W with a 600W and a digital ballast

Woo Hoo!!!! 600W!! I'm way cool with having to get all the tools I need for a successful grow. I'm just pissed I don't have the funds to get what I need all at once.
I'm way anxious to get as much of it as I can right now, cuz I'm itching to start my next grow.

Keep writing the novels Indi, I need em. NEED em!! I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'd be lost with seedy, shitty plants without you. The only regret I have is that I haven't got any way to repay yer kindness and patience.
Hay! I found a really cool post you left in another thread regarding double potting. I'll definitely have to try that at some point, but I'd rather try it when I have some beans of "reputable" pedigree and at least another grow under my belt.
Back when I chucked the boys out, I noticed there were roots sticking out the bottom holes of the pot. That was over a month ago, so I'm sure the girls are cramped in their pots by now and they still have roughly a month more to go. It never occured to me to just sit them in another pot with soil and let em keep going.
So, the roots just keep growing thru the holes at the bottom of the primary pot and down into the second one? That doesn't hurt the roots, having to squeeze thru those lil holes or should larger holes or additional holes be drilled into the primary pot before you set it down into the second pot? When watering do you drench the first pot and let it trickle down or would you have to water the soil in the both pots? OR put it into some kind of tub or basin and let water seep up into the pot? Or both?
Damn, that double potting is such a money concept to me. I love it. I first saw it earlier this year it in a post by BOG, but I totally forgot about it until I read your post about it. From the pic I saw, it looked like he had a huge bushy tree in two double stacked pots. Looks like it would work great for maybe a couple of plants. Grow two big double potted plants instead of three or four smaller ones OR one HUGE plant. I wonder how a single plant, low stress trained, would turn out if it were double potted. Hmmm....

Damn, here I go again with the novel. Aiight, Indi tha Sensei. Thanks for the help and advice, once again. I'm off to go stare at the girls til I get sleepy. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to the hydro shop and see about a pH pen this weekend. The microscope will have to wait until next weekend.

Have a great one, Indigo.

peace

Buddy

 

[Guest]

HOT DAMN!! I'm a protegé!! I've been taken under a wing!!!

Damned if you ain't girl, I don't spend 30 minutes per post for just anybody!

They look ok? Seriously?? *whew* I was worried they were too small or something.

They look just fine Bud! The smaller plant is small enough in comparison to the other one for me to be able to say that she's stunted, should be about as large as the other one, but it doesn't matter a hoot, 'cause she's big enough and producing just fine! Of your two plants, the larger one is probably leaning more towards a sativa, which is why she's taller, and taking longer to mature. Expect a more "up" high from that one!

Well, I was hoping that wasn't the prollem, but I kinda suspected that's what it might be. Damn hermie. Damnit. Well, it's just a few here and there, hopefully the plant will be ok.

That's probably what the pistil browning is Bud. Sorry about that. Pollen is sneaky :wink: Of course I can't be 100% sure, not being able to inspect your lady, but chances are she has been seeded to some extent. It won't have any effect on your plants health, but bud production where its been seeded will be scant....unless it was just a few grains of pollen, in which case bud production will be almost normal, with a few scattered seeds. To be brutally honest, that larger plant has me a bit worried about how heavily the plant has been seeded. She should have packed on more weight in the buds at one month flower. Bagseed is kind of a bitch, because unless you've grown the same seeds out before, you really can't guess whether its just the plant which is really slow to flower, or if there's some other issue. One thing I do know, if it is NOT a slow flower issue...its seeds. If you have a magnifying glass you might want to get up close and do some inspection. If the plant has been seeded, after about 10 days - two weeks you'll see the calyxes swollen and bulging because of the seeds they contain.

Step harvest is great, especially if your plants haven't been trained (bent and tied). Training usually ensures that all the buds mature more or less at the same time, as the side branches reach the same height as the main stalk, and the buds get equal lighting.

Both plants are also very sticky, specially the stems.

Sticky plants are promising

I feel more comfortable doing the tie down method. Can I still do it this late in flower? I've never heard of the pinching method. I'll see if I can't drill a few holes and tie a few branches down. Should I be more focused on the lower branches with the smaller buds or do ya think I should chance it with the taller branches? The lower branches are way more pliable than the taller ones, but the taller branches still bend pretty well. I dunno if I should try to bend the main cola. I might break it.

To begin with, here's a link to a good thread which in two pages explains a bit of each of the two methods. Pinching the stalks is usually referred to as "supercropping", and bending them over and tying down is called "training". Training can be done at any time, as long as the branches are supple enough. Supercropping should be confined as much as possible to veg, though I've done it in late flower out of necessity .

You don't want to train your lower branches Bud, and this is why. When you bend the main cola over, as I stated in the previous post, you inhibit the auxins, which are hormones which prevent the side branches from reaching the height of the main cola. As a result, your side branches will grow upwards, reach the height of the main cola, develop buds which will receive as much light as the main cola, thus producing main cola type buds . If you tie them down...its gonna be kinda hard for them to grow upwards :wink:

How about a training walkthrough? We did this above, but I'll try to simplify it for you. We're going to use the main cola, my friend....so do not get over-enthusiastic and be tugging your heart out. This will be slow and gentle.

1. - Drill a hole in the side of your pots, above the soil line, near the lip of the pot. Should be big enough to be able to thread a cord through easily.

2. Get yourself some smooth and resistant twine or cord, I use hemp twine

3. Pair of scissors nearby

4. On the main cola, from the top, count the two top nodes (first and second set of fully developed leaves from the top). Test the plants flexibility with your fingers. Get a feel as to whether she's nice and resilient, or a bit more woodsy. Pay attention to how it feels, this will help you gauge how much you can bend it before you risk snapping.

5. Tie a piece of cord (it should be long enough so that when it hangs down it touches the soil, plus a few inches more to easily thread through the hole in the pot) just underneath that second node. You need to obtain a loose loop around the stalk of the plant, about the size of a quarter. Your plant will continue to thicken the stalk in flower, and you need to leave room for that. Tie a strong knot so your loop will not close when you pull the cola over.

6. Take the end of the cord, and thread it through the hole in the side of the pot, without pulling, just thread it through as if you were threading a needle. Leave it there.

7. Now comes the part where we want to go slow and easy. Note:If your stalk is on the hard side and not very resilient OR if you are worried about snapping the stem, you can slowly get the desired angle over a period of days. You just bend by a few degrees every day. For example, you bend her 10 degrees today, tie the cord, then tomorrow untie the cord keeping tension on it, and pull her over a few more degrees, then retie.

8. Now you have all ready to begin actually bending the plant over. Grasp the cord, without holding the plant, and s..l..o..w..l..y gently pull on it. You'll see the top cola begin to bend over. Keep pulling the cord slowly (feel it!) until you feel a resistance. Stop when you feel the cola is under tension, or when you become worried about snapping the plant. Remember that you need is anywhere from a 30° to 45° angle, but as your plant is already halfway through flower, I'd stop at around 30° angle. If you're uncomfortable about doing it all at once, or think your plant isn't flexible enough, remember my note above, you can do a few degrees a day.

9. Keeping the same tension on the cord, pull the excess threaded through the hole in the pot, and tie the plant in position. If you've succeeded in doing the bending all at once, then tie a tight knot, if you will need to repeat the process the next day, tie a double bow so you can undo it easily. The plant will pull alot on that cord, as it will naturally want to go towards the light, and it needs to be firmly tied.

Once you've trained to the desired angle, you will want to leave the cord until the plant is done.

In a week's time, you'll see the side branches growing upwards and evening themselves out more or less at the height of the main cola Miracle! Budsites galore!

I'm way cool with having to get all the tools I need for a successful grow. I'm just pissed I don't have the funds to get what I need all at once.

No worries Bud, almost all of us have started out growing by buying equipment in bits and pieces :wink:

Keep writing the novels Indi, I need em. NEED em!! I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'd be lost with seedy, shitty plants without you. The only regret I have is that I haven't got any way to repay yer kindness and patience.

You can repay me by helping out another newbie grower when you feel comfortable with your skills. :smile: When I started growing, I had the fortune of meeting an incredibly skilled grower who became my Guru, he took me by the hand and nursed me through my first grows, and in turn I promised him to do the same when I was knowledgeable enough. So here I am, paying it forward! :smile:

Double potting is sooooooooo COOL! Its so cool because of its simplicity!
You don't have to do a thing, you don't have to make your drainage holes bigger, you don't have to drain more holes.

So, the roots just keep growing thru the holes at the bottom of the primary pot and down into the second one? That doesn't hurt the roots, having to squeeze thru those lil holes or should larger holes or additional holes be drilled into the primary pot before you set it down into the second pot?

Exactly, roots tend to follow the water, and cannabis roots tend to grow downwards, rather than sideways unless forced to do so (pot constrictions). They'll grow right through the drainage holes and root into the soil below Will not hurt the roots at all!

All you have to do is:

- take the same size pot you're using (make sure they fit one into the other, they don't have to fit flush, but the inner pot should reach more or less halfway down the outer pot.)

- Fill it halfway with your normal nicely aerated soil mix (make sure you get some extra perlite in there though, the weight of the top pot will compact the soil in the bottom one some)
- Make a shallow well with your hands in the soil of the bottom pot, so the roots won't get crushed when you sit the top pot in there, just a few inches deep is fine.

- If your plant has been watered recently, slightly moisten the soil in the bottom pot, not alot of water, just enough to moisten the first 6 inches or so, then place the top pot with plant in the second...and voilà! that's it!

- If your plant needs watering when you double pot, then place the pot with the plant in the bottom pot, without watering either of the pots first, and water normally, only make sure you water enough that there is abundant runoff to moisten the soil in the bottom pot. Water in this manner until the plant is done.

You don't want the soil in the bottom pot to become waterlogged, only moist for 5 - 6 inches depth. This is because the soil in the bottom pot will remain moist much longer than that in the top pot, and you don't want to risk root rot. In summary: Don't water directly into the bottom pot, just allow for plenty of runoff from the top to moisten the soil on the bottom. If soil in the top pot looks like it needs watering, and you feel the soil in the bottom pot is still moist (and this will happen) just water the top pot normally, with a quantity that will produce little runoff into the bottom.

Looks like it would work great for maybe a couple of plants. Grow two big double potted plants instead of three or four smaller ones OR one HUGE plant. I wonder how a single plant, low stress trained, would turn out if it were double potted. Hmmm....

It does! A single trained and double potted plant will become a monster bush if she has enough light! BOG pulled over a pound on one, but she wasn't trained, she was topped, and he had her under a 1000 watt lamp

It takes alot more explaining than it takes doing. I actually put a bunch of things into my explanations which you could pick up yourself, which makes them seem long and complicated, but the methods are not. You'll actually double pot in two minutes flat. The explanation took 15 minutes

That's it for today Bud, hope its all clear, any problems get back to me...but you're doin' just fine!

 

[Guest]

If ya'll ain't got a whole book, ya'll sure got a how-to guide for sure!!! This is such a great thread!! Indigo you are amazing for the help you provide to so many around here.... and Budhound, wow if you ain't catchin' on quick!!

You ladies Rock!

 

[Guest]

Word Up Ms. G I haven't spent so much time writing posts EVER LOL The pms can get a bit wordy, but on the boards, unless its my own thread or a smoke report, I don't think I've ever spent more than 10 minutes on a single post LOL: This last one took about 40 minutes from start to finish....I guess I get a bit overly enthusiastic and throw in all the nitty gritty my old noggin holds in matter of cultivation. Guess it helps 'cause Bud's buds are budding

How nice to see ya stop by! :smile: You rock bigtime yourself girl, been checking out your awesome pics alot of late

 

[budhownd]

If ya'll ain't got a whole book, ya'll sure got a how-to guide for sure!!! This is such a great thread!! Indigo you are amazing for the help you provide to so many around here.... and Budhound, wow if you ain't catchin' on quick!!

You ladies Rock!

Hey Mrs. G Thanks for stopping by.

I agree with you, Indigo is a GREAT Mentor. I'm sure there are days that I leave her staring at the screen wondering what tha hell she's gotten herself into. lmao
I sincerely hope this thread can be of some use to any newbie's out there, especially the women. When it's all said and done, I hope they'll see that the Sisters are doin it for themselves.

peace
Bud

 

[budhownd]

Of your two plants, the larger one is probably leaning more towards a sativa, which is why she's taller, and taking longer to mature.

Yea, I was thinking maybe it was a sativa dominant plant, but I wasn't sure cuz I thot I'd have to have a pure sativa for it to actually grow all tall and lanky-like.

To be brutally honest, that larger plant has me a bit worried about how heavily the plant has been seeded. She should have packed on more weight in the buds at one month flower.

Yea, I was thinking the same thing.

If the plant has been seeded, after about 10 days - two weeks you'll see the calyxes swollen and bulging because of the seeds they contain.

Hmmm.... well, it's been way longer than ten days/2 weeeks since I first saw those lil browning pistils. I've been giving the plants a good looking over ever since I first discovered the brown pistils and I haven't seen anything bulging on the little one and I've seen one lil fat bulging calyx on the taller one. Other than that, nothing.

Ok, I'm gonna try the training thing. I felt the main branches on both plants and the taller one has the most give.
I can almost get her to a 90 degree angle. The smaller one is gonna have to be "trained" at training. She's REALLY stiff and woody. Not much give at all; maybe a few degrees and that's all I was willing to risk it. It felt like she was gonna snap at any moment. So, I guess she's gonna get bent gradually.

I'll definitely "pay it forward" in regards to my tutelage. Hope I can do as good a job as you, Indi.

Say, what's better in your opinion, dry and jar curing or water curing? I read a few threads on OG and will spend the rest of the day looking up threads here on IC about it. Water curing seems simple enough, which is why I'm wary of trying it without running it past you. It really doesn't make alot of difference to me(should it?) I've read that water curing takes alot of the aroma and taste from the final cured bud. I kind of like the stinky, sharp, citrusy-piney smell my plants have now, but I don't know if they will have any kind of taste. If water curing is a better, faster way to go, I might wanna try it. *sigh* So much to learn.
I LOVE IT!!

Mkay, I'm off to read up on training and supercropping. Have a great day, Sensei Indigo and take care.

peace

Buddy

 

[budhownd]

I finally got the quote thing!!!! !!!!

 

[budhownd]

The snapping thing

The snapping thing

Well, I read the supercropping thread. I gotta admit, I'm nervous about trying it. However, I can't refute the fact that alot of other growers seem to be in favor of it.
Dunno. Maybe with a lil more growing experience, I'll give it a shot, but for now, I feel more comfy just bending the main stem over and letting the other stems catch up.

 

[Guest]

Hello Bud!

Ok, here we go again LOL!

Hmmm.... well, it's been way longer than ten days/2 weeeks since I first saw those lil browning pistils. I've been giving the plants a good looking over ever since I first discovered the brown pistils and I haven't seen anything bulging on the little one and I've seen one lil fat bulging calyx on the taller one. Other than that, nothing.

Ok Bud....I can't take a look at the plant myself...so for the moment we can keep the theory about that plants' scarce bud production due to being heavily seeded just a theory for now. Being bagseed, there's a big margin in performance, and she may just be a lame producer, or she may be one of those bitches which takes forever to finish and packs it on only in the last few weeks, I've had a few long-finishing sativas do that. Don't fret yet, just keep an eye on her bud production.

Ok, I'm gonna try the training thing. I felt the main branches on both plants and the taller one has the most give.
I can almost get her to a 90 degree angle. The smaller one is gonna have to be "trained" at training. She's REALLY stiff and woody. Not much give at all; maybe a few degrees and that's all I was willing to risk it. It felt like she was gonna snap at any moment. So, I guess she's gonna get bent gradually.

Well that's good. Do what you feel most comfortable with. Plus supercropping is not very indicated in flower, but training is fine. You use your own judgement Bud, I just give you the guidelines :wink: If the smaller one is real stiff, you do what you feel comfortable with in regard to training her, remember, no need to bend it sideways completely, just those 20°-30° are sufficient :wink: Training is alot easier in veg, as you can imagine, plants are much more supple.

Say, what's better in your opinion, dry and jar curing or water curing? I read a few threads on OG and will spend the rest of the day looking up threads here on IC about it. Water curing seems simple enough, which is why I'm wary of trying it without running it past you. It really doesn't make alot of difference to me(should it?) I've read that water curing takes alot of the aroma and taste from the final cured bud. I kind of like the stinky, sharp, citrusy-piney smell my plants have now, but I don't know if they will have any kind of taste. If water curing is a better, faster way to go, I might wanna try it. *sigh* So much to learn.

In regard to curing your weed, the first thing I want you to know is that I'm a curing MANIAC! I am sooooooooo damn orthodox about my methods its scary. You wouldn't catch me dead water-curing a plant Its an excellent method if for example you had to harvest before being able to flush, it practically makes the plant eliminate all nutes, salts, etc. that the plant has accumulated, leaving you with a clean product, which however has lost all characteristic taste and smell. Its also good if you want ready to smoke weed quickly....but you and I know that shortcuts must be paid for, and the quality of your end product as far as taste and smell will be reduced by 80% at least.
Smoke some bud that's been perfectly cured for 3 months. You'll spoil yourself rotten . I don't even taste my weed before a month, if not to take a couple of hits after 2 weeks to see how its going, and don't consider it decently cured before three months have passed.

Bottom line is this: Water curing is faster, but not better by a long shot. Here's a link to a tried and true curing method which I subscribe to 100%, and follow to a T :wink:

With the above method, in two weeks after putting them in the jars you have smokable bud, though by my standards a month is rock-bottom minimum....everyone has their own standards and needs.

Yesterday I had a friend give me a bud of his Cinderella 99, which out of necessity he has to smoke fresh, after just drying and with no cure. To top it off, he grows hydro, so his weed has inferior taste and smell from the get-go. I am going to keep that bud for a month, subject it to a rigorous cure...and then give it back to him so he can have a decent smoke of what is among one of the finiest and tastiest strains out there, the pink grapefruit pheno of the Cinderella 99 He's had the mother plant for years, but has never been able to smoke it with a decent cure. He's in for a surpise... he'll be one happy camper!

Ok Bud...think that's about it for today. Any q's...holler! :smile:

Nice Sunday to ya!