Bubbles in reservoir

[420Cardholder]

i added some bushmaster last night and noticed just a minute ago the drip lines were all clogged with some slimy fluid and the roots in the reservoir have bubbles around them. this is bad i presume? can someone let me know whats going on and if its a big deal or not. if so how do i need to get rid of this. thanks.

 

[MynameStitch]

You need to give more information about your growing conditions and equipment.

Temps,humidity,lighting,nutrients, water temps, PPM/EC, drip on time?
cleaned out the system?

 

[10k]

Eeewww the dredded gunkage.
Whats all in the res solution 420cardholder ?
Sounds like the protiens and microbes are having a field day in your res.

Also please see this sticky thread for more info...
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259

 

[420Cardholder]

well whatever it was i rid of it. drained the res., flooded the plants down to drain some of that gew from the roots with purified water, swapped lights and changed to bloom nutes. ph about 6.2 and ppms at 430. good? does anyone have any ideas on what that was? when i noticed it; i checked the ph and it was wayyy up like 7.8 and ppms were way down i dont remember exactly to what though. like i said before, i added that bushmaster, could that have been the problem? also when i was draining the nastyness i noticed the water was pretty warm. normal? just giving a quick rundown so everyone knows how to address the solution. thank yall.

oh 10k by the way, i checked that link and my situation was nothin like that. the water was milky, not clear at all. its just wierd cause it happened literally overnight.

 

[MynameStitch]

I tried hydro for a bit and it can start as clear; mainly when water temps are kept to warm. Brown gunk is just when it has hit hard. 10k was showing you the link of what would happen if you did not get it fixed; so he was not wrong.

Water temps are not supossed to be warm; warm watter affects absorption of nutrients to the roots and less o2 to the roots and also invites bacteria which starts slime/root rot.fungus issues.

 

[420Cardholder]

any methods of keeping water temps low?

 

[MynameStitch]

Well you can use 2 litter bottles that have frozen water and keep them rotating in when they start to melt. Like have 2, 2 litter bottles with frozen water put those in the res and have some more 2 littler bottles in the freezer waiting after the ones in your res start to melt and rotate.

Depending on the size of your res is a big deal if you want to do thatl; that is the cheap way; bigger res's need more 2 littler bottles.
You can also get a a thing that keeps the water cool; they are called water chillers. They are expensive though, so if you are on a tight budgest the only thing you can do is use the 2 litter bottles and also make sure no light gets in your res that would warm the water up... having the res out of the grow room or away from the lights helps a lot in keeping res temps down.

A lot of peeps use a black res or use black tape and wrap it around and ensure no light gets in there..... not only can that cause a rise in temps but it can also cause algae growth.

 

[10k]

well whatever it was i rid of it. drained the res., flooded the plants down to drain some of that gew from the roots with purified water, swapped lights and changed to bloom nutes. ph about 6.2 and ppms at 430. good? does anyone have any ideas on what that was? when i noticed it; i checked the ph and it was wayyy up like 7.8 and ppms were way down i dont remember exactly to what though. like i said before, i added that bushmaster, could that have been the problem? also when i was draining the nastyness i noticed the water was pretty warm. normal? just giving a quick rundown so everyone knows how to address the solution. thank yall.

oh 10k by the way, i checked that link and my situation was nothin like that. the water was milky, not clear at all. its just wierd cause it happened literally overnight.

Hmmm. cloudy nutes, happened overnight, high temp res and added bushmaster, clogged slimey gunk lines and bubbling roots. :/

I still suspect a microbial situation, not sure about the bushmaster you added, but getting the res temps down is surely needed. High temps contribute to root disease and cause bad microbes to thrive in the res. Also, I believe that when people run too many or the wrong additives in their res, undesirable things can happen to the solution and the plants. I've seen umpteen threads where folks are wondering whats messed up their res, and they all seem to have the "everythings in there but the kitchen sink" syndrome in common. People running h202 in their organic hydro res are another example of unintended reservoir disasters in the making.

Anyway, for the sake of further delving into the "milky res x bubbling roots" question...
Please tell us what all you have (or had) in the reservoir ?
List all the goodies you've been using and in what amounts.
Also, what color are those roots that were bubbling?

Speaking of res cooling....
Heres a few more tips to consider:

One way of course, is to remote the res completely out of the warm grow room or enclosure.

Keeping any air pumps remote, or at least out of direct light exposure will also help keep the temps down. Many air pumps are dark colored or even black, and they suck up heat and deliver it straight to the water. Shade the pumps with reflective white pandafilm, reflective silver metal duct tape, or just paint em white with plastics paint, or better yet...get them out of the room / enclosure.

Blow a draft of air accross the surface of the res.Many growers rig small 80mm pc cooling fans to the lid using pvc elbows (so light isnt shining into the res) in order to provide a slight draft accross the surface of the nutes. The evaporative cooling effect is outstanding and can cool down the res by as much as 10*f cooler than the room.

 

[420Cardholder]

well i had a triple pack nute mix from GH....you know the bloom the gro and the micro. then i also had some florablend which is some sort of tea compound but not that much....about half or maybe even less of what it recommends on the bottle. and then ofcourse the bushmaster....again about half or less of what the bottle recommends just because. my air pump is right there with the stems of all my plants underneathe all the brush. i cant remove the reservoir cause it is part of the drip system hence if i move it then i have to move the plants also. so thats a no go. i got the ppms up to 960 right now in my second day of bloom phase and 12/12 with the ph about 5.8. the roots looked fine except for the fact the drip was clogged up and plants were running dry for who knows how long exactly and they were like an off white in color. i noticed one or two ends were dried out coming out of the bottom of the net pot; roots that is. well have i forgotten anything? i updated my gallery to show you all exactly what it looks like as of right now. leaves went dry and some are a little yellowed and curling up. im sure you'll see for yourself so i shouldnt have to explain the looks of them to a T. so are they looking like this from what happened before or is there a new problem? still taking some time to bounce back from my previous disaster? please let me know. I NEED TO KNOW!!! LOL but really.....anyways, as always, thanks in advance.

 

[MynameStitch]

Those are some good tips 10k I forgot about all the heat from the rest of the equipment.
Nutrients can make the roots look like a brownish color, but you can still tell the difference from root rot and discoloration the nutrient leaves, by slime/smell and cloged up systems

 

[10k]

It would be great to get some additional information here...

please, its much easier to understand your nute mix if you give amounts per gallon used. For example how many ml each gh flora series nute per gallon of water, or what ratios you running. Plus how much per gallon of each of the other things you're adding.
Also whats your mixing strategy, IE: starting with water (include type), which gh 3 part items are you mixing in first (how much) next part (how much) next part, etc including anything else and how much.... AND at what point have you been adjusting pH ?

The cloudyness you saw may be a situation of chems percipitating in the res solution, thus causing lockouts of whats actually available to the plants which could have something to do with your problems especially considering you have warm res temps issues too.
oh...and you never said anything but it was warm, so what is the res temp btw ?
You mentioned drip lines, but did not indicate what kind of hydro system or medium the drip system is running ?

 

[420Cardholder]

its a 3-2-1 mix. i dont really measure to the T i just add it mix it then check ppms and if its too low do it again in the same instance. for instance....reservoir is 16 gallons i added micro first(2 table spoons) the bloom ( 3 tbls) and gro with 1 tbls...check the ppm and if i needed more then i do it again but in a smaller scaled measurement tool until i get it to about the range i want it. bushmaster and florablend both say 1-2 tsp's per gallon in a 16 gallon res.....i put 8 tsp's or less of both to be safe because i never used them before and dont know how the plants might react to it.i try keeping my ph between 5.6 and 6.3 so when it reaches out of that range i add up or down whichever is needed. it had been about 10 days since i changed the res. so i figured ima add this bushmaster and try it out a few days before i change the res and switch to bloom like i was told to. it was the next day i noticed everything was wrong. oh BTW the water i use is from a filtration system in my fridge. i did a google on it to find out exactly what it filters out and figured it wasnt that far off from an RO system so i saved the money in gettin one. i also let it sit bottled up for atleast a day or so before i use it to let the clorine or whatever else evaporate from it. the system i use is 24hr drip system (about 2 drips per second) i dont know exactly cause i dont literally time it but its about that. i got hydroton as the medium sittin in 3" net pots and they are built into the lid which just barely sits ontop of the surface of the water inside the res. there is an ultrasonic fogger going as long as the lights are on. i have a 5" air stone in the bottom and a smaller water pump going just to keep the water in motion. room temps rangin 80-88 degrees. 2 small fans blowin. 400 hps but was mh before i switched to bloom obviously. ummm i dont know...is there anything else? oh and when i fluctuate the ppm's and ph i add one by one right where the pump is so it will mix and wait a few minutes before testing or adding anything else to make sure that it mixes good enough. its kinda hard to just dip in there and stir it up manually with all the roots and not enough room to stir to begin with. well im gonna stop rambling on and on hopefully someone can let me kow how to fix this. 10k i appreciate all your doing , thanks again.

 

[10k]

I just wrote a gigantic post to reply to this but it got lost into cyberspace when I hit the post reply button as the system somehow logged me out. Sends me to the login form, then from there it says invalid thread specified. No back button escape to the quick reply box where the words might still be, so I'm screwed. arrrrgh I hate it when that happens ! yea yea i know, so dont bother telling me how I should have copied it to my clipboard just in case. I know better but anyway arrrrgh! it was some damn good rambling babble'age if i do say so myself.

So to make this short I'll just mention these three things and come back later to elaborate more fully if need be.

#1 Very poor mixing and res maintenance strategy to say the least...
Never pour more multi-part concentrates into already mixed multi-part nute solutions to adjust strength. Doing so can and does (altough slightly) cause some of the elements to percipitate (fall out) of the solution and become unavailable causing a chance for lockouts of some of the elements. If you must add more concentrate to an already mixed batch (a very poor practice imho) always make sure the solution is moving rapidly and the concentrate is poured in very very gradually.

But the more correct way to do it is to mix batches in a separate container and add it in for res ppm bumps or res topping off maintenance :
Get a separate drum and mix your multi-part nute there, for further dilution (if needed) and transfer to your reservoir. When adding to the res,for upping the ppm or for regular res topping up, always add already mixed solution to your already mixed res solution instead of putting the concentrates into an already mixed batch.

Pleanty of folks will say they do it your way, but it is flat out...the wrong way to handle multi-part mixes like gh flora series. Put away the bushmaster and the florawtfever additives, you'll do just fine without them. You are trying to run the gh 3-2-1 mixing plan I see, so go with a 2-2-2 ratio for the first two or three weeks of flowering light cycle, than switch to a 1-2-3 ratio thru the finish. It should be all you'll need in the res, with the exception of 1/8th to 1/4th teaspoon of epson salts per gallon of mixed nutes for a little more mg than the gh flora mix is providing. Pre dissolve the epsom in some warm water and add it into the mixed solution.

#2 Chlorine does not escape or degass from a "bottled up" container...
Use a wide mouth container to degass the water, like bucket or drum. Add an airstone if you want to be sure all the chlorine is degassed in 24 hours, or if you have no spare air stone or pump for your water prep drum, stir it occasionally and wait a while longer just to be certain (48 hours).

#3 and MOST important... you have two HEATERS in your reservior which are causing the res temps to skyrocket. These heaters are that silly ultrasonic fogger AND that extra powerhead (small pump) you have in the res to keep the water moving.
Both of these are not necessary and DO cause the res solution to heat up.
You have basically a dwc system coupled with top feeding the netcups.You have an air stone in the res and it along with the top feeding is more than enough aeration. The fogger serves no purpose other than overfeeding the roots and overheating the res solution... not to mention how it may be also cooking off elements in the nutes. The small water pump you have on continuously is also a heat factory of sorts.

hth,
10k

 

[420Cardholder]

ok thanks for the elaboration 10k; broke it down pretty nicely aside from your minor mishap with the previous thread lol. sorry to hear that, but trust me im sure its happened to everyone atleast once. so basically im wasting my time with the extra small pump and the fogger? i do not need either of these in order for the water to keep from mugging up? and the fogger really doesnt help in a way that it was told to me it does? is this opinionated or factual? and how big of an effect would it have that im adding nutes to a premixed solution? it seems to mix ok cause the ppms read out ok on either side of the res. after i do it....same with ph up and down. and about the water that i let sit out....not like its bottled up and the lid is closed....still not a good thing? oh and real quick....what does dwc stand for? i see it all the time and always try to elaborate but cant quite seem to get it. so anywho, jeez it seems like im doing this completely wrong. so im guessing my new growth is coming out all curled up as a result of all of this too aye? i think i like rockwool much better than this particular system atleast. just seems like too much a pain in the ass. so yea keep me updated on what the hell i need to do next to avoid as much destruction in my growroom as possible. thanks so much.

 

[MynameStitch]

DWC stands for Deep Water Culture

 

[420Cardholder]

thanks stitch...so basically it means when the roots are hangin down into the reservoir....sittin underneathe the surface?....and by the way...any takes on my situation? got any pointers.....should i change my water the "right way" or do you think the way im doin it is ok cause changing the res. is a real time consumer with this system. and also.....how soon after i switch the lights should i start noticing sex? what are the chances of all 6 plants turning out males? cause from what it looks like right now is little balls on all of them but i cant quite tell yet if its new growth shoots or what. posted a couple pics of the nodes....not the greatest resolution but hopefully some of you more experienced growers can pinpoint males from females like the back of their hands...is it too early to tell?

 

[MynameStitch]

Yes; deep water culture means that but means NFT nutrient film technique I think it is.....
It's where the roots are submerged in water and nutrients. You should know within a week or 2 at the most if it's indica mostly.... a little longer for sativas.
it all depends how many aer male or female. I have heard of peeps getting 6 beans and getting 6 males but it all depends too on strain genes and environment if they were stressed.

A male will look like a round ball where a female flower (pistil) will look like a rain drop or a pear shaped in the microscope. You can get a 30x microscope and look where the branches come out of the main stalk. Around the bulge area usually around the 3rd set to 4th set of leaves is where they start to show sex.

Some show sex before flowering some don't..... I always had mine show sex before flowering except my first grow which was a sativa monster. Did not know till like the 2 1/2 weeks into flowering that she was female.

 

[420Cardholder]

but you grow in soil mostly dont you? same rule of thumb as far as time for hydroponics?

 

[MynameStitch]

No, I have tried hydro though in 2 buckets I was just doing it about 3 weeks before I got busted. I bought all kinds of air pumps hoses the works and I did not end up seeing what they looked like to far in.

I did mostly grow soil, but I have read up on hydro so much and such.
Soil and hydro is 2 completely different things. Hydro grows much faster than soil does.

I think sex would be shown a little more quicker in hydro than soil because of the growth rate differences.

 

[10k]

ok thanks for the elaboration 10k; broke it down pretty nicely aside from your minor mishap with the previous thread lol. sorry to hear that, but trust me im sure its happened to everyone atleast once. so basically im wasting my time with the extra small pump and the fogger? i do not need either of these in order for the water to keep from mugging up?

Yes, the fogger and the small water pump ( I assume its an aquarium powerhead or similar) are BOTH causing the res to heat up. Heat is not a good thing as it lowers the ability for the water to carry dissolved oxygen. The very act of the water being bubbled by an airstone is pleanty enough aeration if your res temps are under control. Add to that, the fact that you have even more aeration happening because of the top feeding you have going into the netcups and thus flowing down the roots back to the res. Thats even more aeration, but you're killing all that goodness by throwing what amounts to a couple of overheaters in the reservoir.

Its a well known fact that some of the homebrew pump-tub-sprayer type aero cloner tubs peeps like ~S and Hibe were trying to build back in the old laughingmoon days had high temperature problems, caused by the water pumps being submerged in the tub itself. This is one of the main reasons why the cheapo-aero cloners were a big hit because they didnt cause the water to heat up like the waterpumping style cloner tubs. Yea,they heated the water more than your powerhead situation because they were pushing against alot more back pressure then you have just being a circulation pump, but never the less your pump does transfer heat into the water. Now you add an untrasonic fogger to the equation which makes heat too, and you've got a heat factory sitting in the reservoir. Seal it in the tub and those temps will have nowhere to go but upwards.

and the fogger really doesnt help in a way that it was told to me it does? is this opinionated or factual?

Its both factual and opinion...
Fogger aero is a fairly new technique, but its already factually known that fog aero needs a much weaker nute solution than most hydro systems would use, thus you have a wrench in the works which could be causing an overfeeding situation. You're running dwc, not aero. Theres no point in trying to improve a system design if its going to hamper the entire system with the added heatin the res. <- opinions... based on facts

and how big of an effect would it have that im adding nutes to a premixed solution? it seems to mix ok cause the ppms read out ok on either side of the res. after i do it....same with ph up and down.

google it, just for the hell of it...keywords "precipitates in hydroponic nutrients"
and read this too while you're at it...
http://www.icmag.com/ic/links.php?u...m/420/hydroponics/58849-unstable-ph-read.html

You'll find pleanty of information that'll back up what I already said. Elements in multi-part nutrients can and do precipitate out of solution becoming locked out and unavailable to the plants. This can happen when mixing nute concentrates into already mixed nutes and also happens alot when people use pH up, more so than pH down. Its best at least, if you're adding more multi-part nute concentrates or doing pH adjustments...to first dilute it considerable in water before adding it to an already mixed reservoir.

You added the bushmaster which is high p&k. The K (as you'll see googeling) is one of the major causes of elements precipitating out of nute solutions. When you added that bushmaster to your res... all hell broke loose didnt it.
This could very well be why your res became "mugged up" indeed.

I'm willing to bet... that if you did a little experiment you'd see the foggy water happen right before your eyes. Go ahead and take a gallon of your res solution, leave it standing still and pour some bushmaster in it...whoa mugged up and cloudy from elements precipitating. Try the same with some pH up and look closely for a cloudyness at the point of contact with the solution...same thing? Then just for giggles... add the same amount of bushmaster to another sample of your res...but first dilute the bushmaster in water and pour it in slowly while the sample is being stirred vigorously...not so cloudy eh ?

so im guessing my new growth is coming out all curled up as a result of all of this too aye?

Its my opinion anyway, that your high res temps may be only part of the problem, but add to that the aero fog possibly overfeeding the roots and the messed up nute mixing and you've got some pretty krunked up plants.

i think i like rockwool much better than this particular system at least. just seems like too much a pain in the ass. so yea keep me updated on what the hell i need to do next to avoid as much destruction in my growroom as possible. thanks so much.

A lot of people feel the same way about dwc when they're used to running another type of hydro system. They all (each system type) have their own quirks and tweaks which make the others seem like a pita in comparison.

anyway... I would dump the res if its looking even slightly cloudy, change my ways regarding nute preparation and res maintenance. Get rid of the extra pump in the res and especially get rid of that fog generator. I'd also hope that I wasnt running that drip pump continuously either, as it too can warm things up. Run it in on/off cycles or lose it too. All one really needs in dwc is decent aeration using air stones...and properly mixed nutes in the tub that arent too warm.

Go with the gh 321 222 123 with some added epsom.
Going "Old school", like I suggested earlier.
Save the bushmaster and the florawtfever stuff for another grow.
If the temps come down in the res like they should, you and your plants will not be disappointed.

hth,
10k