Bubble Cloner Users: To Submerge or Not to Submerge?

[ItsAllOver]

Just wanted to hear from those that use bubble cloners with good success about the issue over whether to have the stem submerged or to justs have it splashed!
You can put two answers down if you've tried both techniques and have results.

Thanks!!

 

[NorTex]

I've used both submerged and unsubmerged, and i feel that the unsubmerged has a quicker rooting rate, although the submerged have still rooted (just took longer). Another thing i noticed was that the submerged cuts grew roots @ different places (a little higher up on the stem) than the unsubmerged cuts.

In theory, the water splashing on the cuts (think aero) is what drives the roots to 'seek out' moister, air, etc. From my understanding, this is what speeds up the rooting in the unsubmerged (again, think the quickness of aero cloning) as opposed to submerged cuttings.

NorTex

 

[ItsAllOver]

Yea, I have heard that opinion, and it makes sense to me.
I am currently running a submerged setup, and 7 days since cutting I'm seeing small root bumps on about 6 of 10 that I checked out, and one other one has (3) 1mm roots. We shall see how it goes. I was going to make a platform for them and move to unsubmerged, but I'll leave my experiment as it is and try that next time.
I plan on taking a lot of clones unnecessarily over the coming months to test out various things. I also need a digital thermometer for the water temp... I think water temp is a key factor, as many others have also said!
Thanks for your input.

 

[NorTex]

Honestly, i don't put too much effort into cloning in the bubbler. Its pretty much set it and forget it. What i do is use Liquid Karma at the recommended strength for cuttings, and leave them in there for about 2-3 days. I then empty that water, and use RO water for the next 2 days or so and thats about it. I don't use a heat mat, not phing of the water, or anything. I just use a single 26w cfl over them and let them do their thing. Depending on spacing, i may let them grow out a shit load of roots, or i may take them when they have started showing root bumps. Either way...i end up with healthy clones >95% of the time.

NorTex

 

[ItsAllOver]

LK for the first couple days, eh? Interesting.

 

[bdomina]

i have done a few rounds w a bubbler . and I have noticed that if you submerge you have to keep a close eye on the temps. and if you dont you have to keep a close eye on the water level and your aeration. i have never tried to add any hormones to my bubbler, although i am beginning to think it might help. also make sure you steralize the crap out of it before you use it. the smallest amount of germs will slime you up faster than you can say....something short hehe

 

[ItsAllOver]

Yea, I believe that. I am trying to avoid the slime. Some folks say take out a volume of water and replace it with RO everyday, and I have been doing that about every 2 days. I'm 7 days in and no slime! Phew! Hopefully that'll help. I keep my setup very clean in general, so anyway, we'll see.

I don't know what the temps are for sure bc I don't have a thermometer hooked up. Hell, I'm gonna go move the exterior sensor from the one I use for the grow.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Used "properly" I have a 600% failure rate. Killed everything I put in it. Used "wrong" with rockwool, 100% success. I keep them above the waterline but, cubes are saturated at all times.

Here's my mini DWC bubbler. A one minute soak in Hormex (any liquid IBA, NAA solution will do) with Rockwool and gel. An aquarium heater maintains a water temp of 75º-80º. Solution is: 1/4 tsp each per gallon GH FloraMicro and FloraBloom in tap water pH adjusted to 5.8. Keeping cuts short and well trimmed allows me to clone dome and mist free in RH as low as 15%. If they want water, they know where it is.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Gotcha. What's a 600% failure rate? lol! About that, can you please define what you mean by "properly"? Does that mean with stems submerged or not? How are they being held in place? Nutrients in res or not? I never knew there was a universally accepted proper way. It must indeed be improper if it fails like that.

-So when using rockwool in a bubbler isn't that just like using rockwool without the bubbler? It's just basically an auto-water system, which is cool.
Hey, BTW, I've seen you post all that before and forgot to ask:
What do you mean by a 1 minute soak in Hormex? So you make a solution of the hormex and actually submerge the entire clones? What ratio of hormex:water?

I'm going to have to grab some rockwool cubes and give it a shot that way.

Edit: Also, are the little sticks in there to denote which is which? Good idea.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Gotcha. What's a 600% failure rate? lol!

I use "properly" to describe naked stems in nute free water as, supposedly, that's all you need. I've tried "properly" 6 times (I really would love to go media free) and everything died every time. FWIW, I always kept stems above the waterline but, within the reach of bubbles.

The difference in rockwool with or without a bubbler is where the oxygen comes from. In an E&F or top watering, air comes in from above. Water pushes old air out, drainage sucks new air in. In a bubbler, oxygen is delivered from below through aerated water.

I use the Hormex straight out of the bottle at 100%. The little container is an old pH test tube. After use, I pour it back into the bottle. The bottle shown is from Jan 2001 as is my Olivia's.

Toothpicks do indeed match cuts to donors for ID purposes.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Ah, that's what I figured you meant by 600%, and now I know what you're talking about when you say properly. I assumed that pretty much too.
Ah-ha on the rockwool setup!

Oh damn on the Hormex! I've never seen the stuff before, and I think it's funny that you put it right back in the bottle, getting used up as it adheres to the stems, but no more! And you're not a bit afraid of infections, as so many people are. I always hear, "use a separate container from the one that the hormone comes in or you might share germs."
This shit is indeed hilarious, or terribly annoying, depending on how you look at it!

Also, sorry, because I didn't use the pictures or I would have answered the question about hormex submersion myself!
Be talkin to ya!

 

[FreezerBoy]

I always hear, "use a separate container from the one that the hormone comes in or you might share germs."
This shit is indeed hilarious, or terribly annoying, depending on how you look at it!

I've heard the same. Fortunately, I heard after I knew otherwise. Because the Olivia bottle is so tiny, I dip cuts directly into the bottle.



I use the crummiest Xacto I've got for clones, the one I use to scrape out my bong bowl. No cutting underwater, no sterilizing anything, no pre soaking Rockwool ...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Cloning is Voodoo. What saves me may kill you dead. You'll never see such disparate results from identical methods as you will with cloning. The only "right" way is whatever gets you roots.

 

[slowandeasy]

Yo Freezer,
Think your failure could have been the rockwool! Stays too wet. Try pool noodles or ez cloner pucks, with the tip just touching the water. I also scuff stem. Temps around 75 and in one week you should have roots. Almost 100 percent. Then, when rooted they stay in the pool noodle til they are chopped! No medium, been doing it for many years. Learned from Joe Crowe on OG, and never looked back. Just drill a hole slightly smaller than the pool noodle, cut a groove in the noodle all the way around, and it will make a lip to support itself.

Only downside is if they get huge you may need support. Done this way have nothing to restrict its growth and is very easy clean up when done! Try it, you might like it~~

 

[grow1620]

hi. great poll, nice to see what methods others use.

as you probably remember I posted in the other thread about how I don't really bother to sterilize stuff anymore, I just wanted to clarify that I don't recommend this..it works for me personally (luck I think) but when I was starting out I made sure everything was sterile, and got slightly better results, faster root development, less slime...etc..the reason I'm so lazy about sterilizing now is that I haven't noticed a huge difference, and I'm kinda seeing how far I can take it before if affects the health/time of the root development. For me personnaly an extra few days, even a week to develop roots isn't a big deal, as I'm never in the much of a rush or that "hard up" for some clones.

..as far as the tips hovering above the water line, I think FB said it best..if they want water they know where to get it. This is exactly why I dont mist my clones or try to make them super humid, if I give them all the water/mosture they need through humidity or foliar feeding then why would they bother growing roots? That's just my opinion though.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Yo Freezer,
Think your failure could have been the rockwool! Stays too wet.

With Rockwool, 100% success. No Rockwool, 600% failure. Rockwool isn't my problem, it's my savior. A bubbler is a mini DWC. In DWC, short of pouring 10 gal into a 5 gal tub, there's no such thing as too much water.

While a media free plant requires support, I'm a ScrOG guy so, I'm supported anyway. I'd love to go media free and I'll keep trying on the side but, the best I've been able to do with a "proper" bubbler is to keep one single cut from dying about a month and a half. Cut was so bleached out it was nearly white with no sign of roots. If media free works for you, color me jealous. Wish I could.

 

[slowandeasy]

There is such thing as not enough oxygen, so if your rockwool is too wet the roots do not get enough oxygen. If you can have good results with hydroton, you can do MWC! It is hard to find solid pool noodles, but they are the shit! Trust me Feezer, you can do it!

 

[ItsAllOver]

I use the crummiest Xacto I've got for clones, the one I use to scrape out my bong bowl.

That... is... gross! hahaha congrats!
But I'm with slowandeasy on the you can do it. Just gotta figure out how! hmmm. Shit I obviously don't have the answer yet. My results should be in the poll by 3 days from now, or I'll kick myself in the nuts.

Adios Amigos

 

[FreezerBoy]

There is such thing as not enough oxygen, so if your rockwool is too wet the roots do not get enough oxygen.

If you lack oxygen, you're not doing DWC. In DWC, the water is where the oxygen comes from. Were this not true, DWC would drown your plant to death. Instead, DWC causes growth to explode. Why? Because submersion is how the roots breathe.

 

[grow1620]

on the topic of pool noodles and mediums or w/e .. at walmart in the camping section they sell these blue foam bedrolls that are like 6$, I cuts lil circles out of them to hold the cuts, cheap and it works great...6$ and you'll probly have more then you'll ever need.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Hey grow1620, thanks for that tip. I'll be snagging some tomorrow!