Broad Mites?

[Grow Tech]

Forbid treatment update-

Forbid treatment update-

Good news- I found several dead adults & what appeared to be a fucked up egg.

Bad news- I found one adult still crawling.

I'll be hitting them again on Thursday....the battle continues

 

[Storm Shadow]

Remember Forbid takes a few days to a week to fully do its thing... dont over apply it and create super Broad Mites... try to score some Triple Action Neem Oil and Spinosad to rotate chemicals...both are cheap and highly effective

 

[Grow Tech]

Good Tips Storm!
I was hoping to have some Avid by then. I hadn't heard about Spinosad being effective on Broad Mites but it's already in my collection so good to know. In doing a little research on Spinosads effectiveness, I came across a recent thread on Weedtr@cker by Progressive Options about Broad Mites being a "new" problem. It looks like there will be more & more people dealing with this. There's some decent info in that thread if anyone is interested.

Edit...I missed that Storm should have a little credit given for the weedtr@cker thread...Thanks again man

 

[Terpene]

Whoa now, let's not get too carried away.

Avid at 2.5ml per gallon dramatically exceeds the maximum dose according to syngenta's label. (PDF link)

Avid will be more than enough to eliminate the mites. Additional pesticides are for your peace of mind only.

"For suppression of aphids, thrips, and whiteflies apply when young, immature stages of these pests are first observed and repeat every 7 days for 2 or 3 weeks. After which time, rotate to other products that have different modes of action than Avid for at least 2-3 weeks. Refer to the Resistance Management section for additional comments on rotation. Aphids, thrips, and whiteflies are killed by direct contact with the Avid 0.15 EC spray."

"For tarsonemid mites (Cyclamen Broad Mites, Rust Bud Mites) repeat applications to newly developing tissue may be necessary to maintain control."

If you see movement 5 days past the second application of Avid, only then would I suggest moving to other treatment methods.

I have not had ANY pest problems since the introduction of Avid to my garden. The one exception being my one use of rosemary oil in water (aka home made SNS17) for a flowering mixture, which had very lack luster results. I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Lesson learned - use avid.

From the label for MAX crop application - "use 2.5 fl. oz./100 gals."
1 oz - 29.5ml
29.5 x 2.5 = 73.75ml
73.75/100 = .74ml per gallon MAX application rate

20 drops per ml
20 x .74 = 14.8 (15) drops per gallon MAX

3.78 liters per gallon
14.8/3.78 = 3.91 (4) drops per liter MAX

I've been running 3 drops per liter with 100% knockdown.

Avid is a local systemic. It sucks into the plant through its pores, turning whatever portions of the plant are sprayed into what is basically a pesticide container. From what I understand of Abamectin, it tends to "stay put" where its used, as opposed to most systemics which course through the plants veins from the roots. Insects bite into the plant a receive a lethal dose. Additional pesticides can repel the pests, driving the mites from treated areas and minimizing effectiveness.

I know it goes without saying, but proper safety is a must with Avid. Long sleeves, gloves, wash up afterwards. I would encourage a respirator and eye protection, especially for those using it in large doses. Avid's max recorded half life is about 50 days, meaning I wouldn't use it any later than pistils showing, but I would reccomend vegetative-only use.

 

[Grow Tech]

20 drops per ml
20 x .59 = 11.8 drops per gallon

Hey Terpene...thanks for the input. I never was a fan of measuring by drop because...drop size can differ.

For what it's worth...I used .75 mL / gallon for my Forbid app. It's labelled for 2-6 mL/5 gallons....so right in the middle of reccomended dosages

 

[Shan Diego]

Why Grow Tech is my hero...and yours...he's got the eye for the new bugs...

Why Grow Tech is my hero...and yours...he's got the eye for the new bugs...

It seems these new mites have spread like the plague. The New Borg, it turns out. I've been plagued for a minute by these fuckers, but I failed to recognize them because of their nature and the nature of the damage they cause...

When I first saw signs of their presence, I confused them for signs of phosphorous toxicity. Being a coco grower, I normally used customized nutes with a low P ratio. When I ran out, I decided to give something else a shot...why not, I had gotten them as free handouts...what a great value... Then, trouble ensued. They seemed to halt in vertical growth, turn downward and purple. The side branches became feeble and broke off easily.

I cursed the free growshow nutes and resumed my normal nutrients. I also thought that because it had been in the 30's outside for a week (and I hadn't adjusted the fresh air flow or plummeting nute temps) that the cold and poorly ratioed diet had caused the damage. What an idiot I had been...not monitoring my conditions...fail on me. So I trimmed off the damaged parts and I did my due diligence routine...spray for bugs and mold/fungus...I thinned them out and used Spinosad and Floramite, then followed up with the spectercide permetherin and myclobutalill spray...the ladies responded great, new growth ensued and seemed clean...for a minute...

Then, the damage returned with a vengeance. This time, she promptly rained radically deformed growth on the new tissue, and the older fan leaves suddenly resmbled the old pics of the world's longest fingernails. Remember them? Gross then, gross now. Fuck! What am I doing wrong?

I decided to re-check the checklist. Temps? Humididty? pH? ppm? Frequent flushing in coco? Everything in order. What about pests? I pulled out my scope and carefully inspected the undersides of my leaves...no mites. I stared intently at my root zone...no root aphids. I saw no webs, no spots, no nothing familiar...I figured I was in the clear with pests. That's where I failed.

So, we've come to why Grow Tech is my hero...because he ventured into the unknown, faced his challenge, and prevailed. Propelled by his natural curiosity and facing a mystery, he used the tools at his disposal and solved this puzzle. New pests; Borg Squared. No match for GT. He wipped out his trusty microscope and spotted the sneaky little bastards. These are so hard to spot, we should call them Jawa Mites hiding out from the light and all...good eye, gardener. Had you not ventured into the unfamiliar territory, I wouldn't have known.

I was fucked, and you truly saved me. Now, I have to make the painful morning after phone calls and tell my peeps about the new type of crabs. That I gave them. Damn it. Wait, GT to the rescue again...with a simple solution...

Hot shot no pest strips are readily available...its basically a good old fashioned nerve gas for bugs. And by bugs, I mean anything that crawls, slithers, flies or otherwise considers existing. And their little eggs too. Dichlorvouus is deadly. It won't hurt you if you follow directions, but deadly for a bug-on-a-plant-in-a-box. I had a bunch of domes potentially contaminated with these mites, and I had just enough change in my ashtray to get just one of these pest strips for $7...I cut it into pieces and cut the old containers from the dispensaries to replicate their original design...the package said 1 strip was enough to continually exterminate 1000 cubic feet for 4 months. I figured that if I cut it into strips and inserted them into my individual domes that I could control just a foot or two just fine without overkill. 2 days later, I'm seeing complete success. Corpses here and there, no signs of life anywhere. No devastating odor, although when I open the sealed domes I do so in a good breeze as I don't want to risk it. Stuff just works too well for me to feel safe breathing it in myself, although the package says 4 hours a day is ok.




I was going to use the technique with my moms too, but I found a donor of Avid so I went through the painstaking process of using it correctly...I guess I could rest easily now but these new mites are just so damaging that I've decided to use the no pest strips during the dark hours for the next few days just to be safe...as stated previously, these be the new borg.

Speaking of Badass bugs, there is a new insect present in California...the House Centipede...you will spot them because they are big and very fast...much faster than normal crawling insects, I thought it was a baby mouse or something. Google that shit, they have multiple arms with pincers so they regularly attack multiple opponents at once. Nature is awesome.



Anyways, kudos to 'tech for spotting the new insects. You certainly relieved a significant amount of frustration to me. By properly identifying your pest and taking the effort to document the problem and solution, you have provided a tremendous value to myself and the community. I was getting my ass kicked by an enemy that was invisible to me. You revealed, and now the fight is on. The problem with 'merica nowadays is that we dont' think in value-added terms as we should. You add Mutha Fuckin Value... Technician? I think you deserve a promotion. Thanks, fella. I feel compelled to pass this on, and I would encourage the rest of you who have read this far to do the same. Make some phone calls and inquire if others have seen the same. If you're their sudden angel, you will win a friend for life.

Anyways, my jaw is exhausted from lathering your ass up. You're the man.

 

[Grow Tech]

Awww Shucks Thanks Shan-
These little fuckers had me questioning my grow skills big time. Someday I may graduate to "Grow Engineer" but for now I'm just glad to know this nightmare can be dealt with.

Forbid treatment update-
I spent a chunk of time with the scope today. I saw a few desiccated adults, a couple adults that didnt appear desiccated but weren't moving & 2 moving adults. My Avid delivery has been stalled so tomorrow I'll be pulling out the Neem. Speaking of GrowExpo freebies...I'll be using my Dyna-Gro Neem from that show

 

[Midnight]

Awww Shucks Thanks Shan-
These little fuckers had me questioning my grow skills big time. Someday I may graduate to "Grow Engineer" but for now I'm just glad to know this nightmare can be dealt with.

Forbid treatment update-
I spent a chunk of time with the scope today. I saw a few desiccated adults, a couple adults that didnt appear desiccated but weren't moving & 2 moving adults. My Avid delivery has been stalled so tomorrow I'll be pulling out the Neem. Speaking of GrowExpo freebies...I'll be using my Dyna-Gro Neem from that show

Good luck, the only real solution for these fuckers is toss your plants and nuke your room. I have a 1500 watt oil heater blasting away in my room now. This is after several dousings of the room with bleach and water then letting off the hot shot foggers. If there are any bugs or bug eggs left in the room then the heater should cause them to hatch, then in the morning the room is getting bleach/water and another bug bomb. I've got a carpet cleaning machine and am going to clean the carpet Saturday.

I seriously hope you can beat those bastards without having to do everything I am going through right now!

 

[Shan Diego]

I've treated the plants. Put them in a small sealed area with a vigorously circulating fan and a NO PEST strip during their dark period. Do this for a few consecutive days for at least a few hours a day...Clearkill. As for my 1 square meter mother closet...1 gallon of Killz paint is supposed to penetrate and seal much more than this area...that should include kritterz of all sorts, plus mold, rattlesnake eggz, anything. It's like new. Improved brilliance is beautiful too! New, white n bright closet with perceptibly clean plants. Reminds me of the old ref's advice that I failed to follow...'Protect yourself at all times...(clap) Fight!' Keep your guard up, fellas.

Also, if you use Avid, read the directions a couple of times.

Also, if you use Avid, this stuff is seriously poisonous. Proper preparation takes 5 times longer than the actual application. You aren't doing this indoors, are you? Have you considered where every drop of runoff is going? Can you access every side of every plant? If it gets on you, how do you abort your plan and clean yourself? Seriously, this is poison. Most pesticides, you could put in shot glasses and use them for beer pong without real health concerns. However, Avid is different. You should think of it as rattlesnake poison...no amount of contact is acceptable.

Also, if you use Avid, do not smoke before you begin. If you think its ok for you to do (since you are smart and you know what to do) Don't do it! Instead, write out your plan step by step. You will probably realize you have no bizness fucking with this stuff right now! Wait till tomorrow! Seriously, if you use this stuff properly - its cool - If not - It will hurt your nerves. (See my avatar...)

 

[Grow Tech]

Hey Midnight,
It sounds like you've gone through hell. Those leaves are showing damage unlike anything I'd imagine Broad Mites doing....bizarre. . Hopefully you'll get the situation licked. So far it looks like the predators are handling the situation in my flower room and I'm going to keep throwing a good rotation of chems at my nursery.

 

[ghostnugz]

fucking hell these mites are soooo hardnto spot!!! about lost my mind these last few months to these little fuckers. finally found a couple on my week 1 flowering plants just now and it was a huge relief honestly. didnt know what the fuck was wrong with my plants. ditched all my moms last month due to what i thought was lock out plus pm. turns out its these little new borg things devestating my garden. thanks gt and shan. gonna neem my ladies tonite then get some of the no pest strips tomorrow for the dark period. fucking socal man, never had a problem with bugs/pm till i came out here. definitely need to step up my preventative measures game. ill get some flicks up so peeps can see what kind of damage these things can cause, its just fucking crazy.

edit, maybe someone needs to start a broadmite info thread. i can see this becoming a serious problem fast due to the mysterious nature of the damage and how it mimicks nute problems

 

[guest5703]

WTF Shan I knew Avid was strong but WTF! I use that shit indoors, I spray with a mask on and long sleeve shirt, then I leave the room for an hour or longer....Havent noticed anything wrong before, but that shit gets all over the place in my veg cab and I dont even worry bout it...Hmmm

 

[Shan Diego]

WTF Shan I knew Avid was strong but WTF! I use that shit indoors, I spray with a mask on and long sleeve shirt, then I leave the room for an hour or longer....Havent noticed anything wrong before, but that shit gets all over the place in my veg cab and I dont even worry bout it...Hmmm

I know I sound like a ninny, but if I am going to recommend something potentially dangerous to this crowd of stoners, I want to cover all my bases. Things like, What if the dogs run in here and want to check out what I'm spraying?...how do I prevent that? Uh oh, here I go again...

 

[ghostnugz]

got some spinosad and one of them hot shot no pest strips. bout to go to war with these mites. i will not lose another crop to these fuckers

 

[Storm Shadow]

Spinosad kills them on contact.... but the normal Spinosad from Home Depot isnt going to cut it....

You need Conserve SC ... its 11.6% Spinosad 1-3ml per gallon... The Home Depot/Hydro Store stuff is 0.5% Spinosad at 60ml per gallon...

Conserve SC is an awsome follow up tool.... remember... your going to need to drop some $$ to kill these guys off for good... they will come back with vengance... I have defeated these bastards and havent seen one in many many months... it took mutlitple applications of so many products... this bug is the worst to date for cannabis growers... ease up one bit on these dudes and your crops are done...

Midnight... your leaf damage... I have seen that as well with Broad Mites...thats when they take a particular interest in one specific strain and leave the other ones with less damage... those leaves will become bronze and brittle if you continued to let them go... these bastards are for real and are everywhere... kill off all generations or they will haunt you forever ... take a look at you nugs when they are dried... still have Broad Mites feeding on your buds..its gross

 

[ghostnugz]

im on day 8 of flowering right now with another tent about to be flipped next week. you say the stuff from the store wont work huh. just found the conserve sc, definitely dont have that kinda extra scratch right now. that also rules avid out as well. anything cheaper i can use to just get me through this crop? im shutting down after this run and wont be growing at this location regardless of these fuckers. not keeping moms, just wanna make it throuugh the next 8-10 weeks. is this a possiblity or should i throw in the towel and save myself a ton of misery/greif/long nights?

edit. hopefully i can find someone in my area with some avid. did my research. 21 days in the plant, i can handle that.

 

[Grow Tech]

Spinosad kills them on contact.... but the normal Spinosad from Home Depot isnt going to cut it....

You need Conserve SC ... its 11.6% Spinosad 1-3ml per gallon... The Home Depot/Hydro Store stuff is 0.5% Spinosad at 60ml per gallon...

Hey Storm,
You're obviously speaking from experience but something got me wondering...
The app rate on Monterey Garden Spinosad (.5%) is ~60mL/gallon. It seems like the amount of active ingredient in a gallon of final mix would be the same as roughly 2.5 mL of Conserve (11.6%) in a gallon.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Seems like the same concetration based on that math... I dont know why it works better then..Under the scope ...Adults that I sprayed with Monterey didnt die on contact... a few days later they were still active.. the Conserve SC was a contact killer... on site... I dont know what the other Chemicals in Monterey are that make up so much of the stuff... maybe its watering down the effects of the Spinosad ...

In General Spinosad should be used on a regular basis .. its kills every bad guy we dont want in our garden...this with neem oil from the beginning can save alot of heacaches... in flowering though ..I can attest to using Conserve SC up until week 6 of flowering with no burning or any leaf/bud issues... Have had the opposite results with the Cheaper Home Depot Brand..

 

[Storm Shadow]

ghost...Triple Action Neem Oil is cheap.. and can be used late in flowering..just have awsome air flow...cant buy it in a store in Cali...but anywhere online will ship it to you..its only like 10-15$ a pint..something like 30ml per gallon

 

[Grow Tech]

ghost...Triple Action Neem Oil is cheap.. and can be used late in flowering..just have awsome air flow...cant buy it in a store in Cali...but anywhere online will ship it to you..its only like 10-15$ a pint..something like 30ml per gallon

Hey Storm, What brand Triple Action neem are you using. When I do searchs I see one thats 70% Neem & 30% other ingredients. There's also something out there alled Triple Action Plus II that has 70% Neem, .25% Pyrethrins & 2.5% Piperonyl Buloxide.