Breeding with "feminized" genetics?

[spicecowboy]

I´m not new to breeding.

But even tough I tried a few so called "femized" varieties, I did not involve them in any of my breeding experiments.

Half a year ago, I grew a very nice, beautiful big yielding almost pure Sativa looking pheno of Female Seed´s "ZamalXSpecial Skunk".

And somehow, please don´t ask me how, she seems to have pollinated all the other girls in the growroom.

I searched and searched for bananas, but- nothing.

Fortunately the buds are not dramatically seeded, just a ripe bean here and there(it was NOT one of those "late flowering nanners, that´s for sure..)

So I got a few healthy looking seeds of:


Orange Bud

Double Dutch

Sensi Star

Santa Maria

Kali Mist

White Widow

all X feminized Zamal/Special Skunk


I´m not sure why the ZamalXSkunk Special hermied.

Maybe because it was feminzed, and theoretically all feminzed plants are hermies anyway, maybe because of the strongly dominant euquatorial Sativa
genetics.

Is it even worth to experiment a bit and grow a few of them out?

I guess, that they are not useful for further breeding, or am I wrong?

As I allready mentioned,- I´m not new to breeding, but I grew those "feminized" varieties just for fun, never for breeding purposes.

Any advice from my fellow growers/ breeders is highly appreciated.

Peace,

and let it grow,



spice

 

[killa-bud]

why are you so sure it was that plant that pollenated the rest?

 

[bannana man]

if its for yourself go ahead but if u r gonna give cuts out make shore u have testedcit for herms or let the person no its femintized

 

[PhenoMenal]

If youve got a female and it puts out just a few pollen balls then that pollen is feminised so all these beans youve now got should also be feminised. :smile:

Zamal is a long flowering strain so I'm guessing your plant was flowering for quite a long time also, and many strains after theyve been growing for a long time will throw out the odd pollen ball here and there in an attempt to fertilize itself before it dies, basically a survival strategy.

Ive just recently made some feminised C99 beans using two feminised C99 females. I stressed one into producing pollen balls by exposing her to colloidal silver as well as light poisoning. The pollen was then manually applied to the other C99, which is a pineapple pheno so I'm feeling optimistic about them. I applied some to a Super Silver Haze too as I figured 'why not' :smile:

Best of luck

 

[zymos]

Some people say you shouldn't breed with them because you'd be passing on the tendency for hermaphrodism.
But it seems to me, if you are just passing on the tendency to hermie IF exposed to colloidal silver, GA, extreme light regimens, whatever, then that doesn't necessarily mean most people will have problems under normal conditions.

 

[spicecowboy]

Hey,- thank´s all for stopping by!


I allready mentioned in my first post that we are not talking about late flowering males.

In fact the whole situation is a little weird.

Yes, maybe it wasn´t the Zamal, as I did not find a single male flower on her, or on any of the other plants.

Strange thing is, that around week 3 of flowering, some pistils died off, and I recognized the pollination, but they developed fresh buds again and continued budding quite normally till harvest.

Whatever.

I´m sure gonna give those seeds a try, or maybe send them out to some of you.

I guess the main problem with breeding is that the "hermie gene" could be recessive, so you can´t even be sure after a few hermi free generations.

"Feminized" seeds are hermies, but normally only show 99% female flowers.

spice

 

[THC•20]

Not all feminized strains easily turn into hermaphrodites. I have a Blueberry from DP which is pissing me off with it's herminess but I have another plant, flowering which is also a feminized strain but it's not turning into a hermie yet. Haven't seen a single male flower and haven't heard of it ever turning hermie on people. It's a personal growers own feminized mix. End of the 3rd wk today. So I guess it really depends on the strain.

 

[DocLeaf]

feminized seed lines can be bred with regular seed lines, that's real.

we accidentally pollinated a White Pearl (fem.) with a Sensi Star male once,,
the resulting seeds were weak in character with only a few exceptional females displayed in lineage. This was one of them, grown by hs,, it didn't show any herm traits or produce any self-set seeds.


In general feminized seed lines should NOT be used in programs of breeding because the genetics have been twisted round, and falsely manipulated,,, inherently they produce weaker lines that shouldn't really be perpetuated.

Fem. breeders are NOT safeguarding the future of cannabis plants!!!

peace

 

[XyZ]

Feminized are generally crap

...but hey...

 

[DocLeaf]

multiple parentage in fem. lines ?!?

multiple parentage in fem. lines ?!?

The GreenHouse's fem. lines show variation in lineage,, suggesting that several reverse-sexed females were used in the breeding of some of their feminized strains. Most notably, the Doctor and AUH#2:

e.g.

Arjan's Ultra Haze #2 = Neville' s Haze x Mango Haze X Laos

i.e. Neville's Haze x (Neville's Haze S1 x Mango Haze S1 and Laos S1).

The variations displayed in lineage hold more than one parent for sure.

Thus is it perhaps possible that certain feminized seeds consist of several parents and are therefore quite different form many of the other feminized seed lines commercially available today???

Whether or not, such multi-parent feminized lines are suitable for the purpose of breeding,, is the next question.

peace
DocLeaf

 

[DocLeaf]

multiple parent feminized lines ?

multiple parent feminized lines ?

multiple parent feminized lines ?

the idea is smart feminized breeding. the next generation of fem. lines ( / )

many fem. breeders take one clone, clone it several times, take one of the clones and stress it until it herms. introduce this pollen to the other clones and they got a feminized seed lot.

another way of doing things, is to clone a female plant several times, then take some other female clones and stress them until they herm. introduce several lots of pollen onto the female clones and they got a multiple parent feminized line.

we've been pondering over this for some time now

How else does a feminized seed line show the traits of all the parents involved?

Does this mean the progeny will always produce hybrid feminized F1s that display hybrid vigor?

These questions are just to start the ball rolling

peace out
dLeaf

 

[pHrail]

This is a real good thread, I'd like to hear from some real breeding experts. If the feminised female is used for breeding having an s1 crossed with a legitimate male should create fairly viable F1's. I'd be curious to know why the F1's would be any different than a normal unfem'd female with the same male. Please keep this thread going.

Also, as far as hermaphroditism I would not think there would be any hermie traits more than natural tendency. Using something like Colloidal Silver to stress the plant does not mean that any hermie traits will be passed onto the s1's unless that plant already had hermie traits. Using a fairly stable IBL's s1's and crossing with a viable male counterpart should produce stable enough F1's.

 

[guest123]

I´m not new to breeding.

But even tough I tried a few so called "femized" varieties, I did not involve them in any of my breeding experiments.

Half a year ago, I grew a very nice, beautiful big yielding almost pure Sativa looking pheno of Female Seed´s "ZamalXSpecial Skunk".

And somehow, please don´t ask me how, she seems to have pollinated all the other girls in the growroom.

I searched and searched for bananas, but- nothing.

Fortunately the buds are not dramatically seeded, just a ripe bean here and there(it was NOT one of those "late flowering nanners, that´s for sure..)

So I got a few healthy looking seeds of:


Orange Bud

Double Dutch

Sensi Star

Santa Maria

Kali Mist

White Widow

all X feminized Zamal/Special Skunk


I´m not sure why the ZamalXSkunk Special hermied.

Maybe because it was feminzed, and theoretically all feminzed plants are hermies anyway, maybe because of the strongly dominant euquatorial Sativa
genetics.

Is it even worth to experiment a bit and grow a few of them out?

I guess, that they are not useful for further breeding, or am I wrong?

As I allready mentioned,- I´m not new to breeding, but I grew those "feminized" varieties just for fun, never for breeding purposes.

Any advice from my fellow growers/ breeders is highly appreciated.

Peace,

and let it grow,



spice

im just wondering if u can pick the parent plant as the one with the highest concerntration of seeds .. was there one where there were more and in clusters ??

 

[JWP]

See what happens when you funk with mother nature for profit. She funks u right back. I hate female seeds & would suggest you make sure those hermie genes DIE!
Hey you dont really need our advice. You allready know what the right thing to do is. But your looking for someone to convince u otherwize. I know its hard to let them beans go.

Unless your enviromental conditions are perfect all yeah round you will have the same problem over and over again. Your plants will throw nannas and you will end up with more seeds. The cycle will never stop unless you stop it now.

Take SD IBL for example. All the way to IBL and beyond. Still throwing nannas. For a lot of growers anyway. Sure it has a lot to do with enviroment but there is no denying its in the genes. Unless you find something exceptional like SD its probably not worth the effort.

 

[Rgd]

Femm'd plants from non herm moms do not tend to make herm plants.

Femm'd plants from easy to herm moms make easy to herm plants.

There does not appear to be a lot known about constant use of selfed plants within the genepool.
There are many assumptions, but then there were many assumptions regarding the impossibilty of getting a male from a reversed plant.
Then there was the assumption that the pollen from the off spring would be sterile.
To say that there is a mishmash of things goin on inside a reversed plant is an assumption...perhaps a correct one,but there have been too many myths exploded lately in reversal and to think of this as a fact.

Nature is dang resiliant!

There are many assumptions, however it seems obvious that using the original clone in further breeding is safer than using the selfed clone.
But what do i know??
Good thread.

 

[Bigtimer7]

I always use feminized seeds and only once out of 4 grows have I had a female plant from a "female seed" throw out seeds and a MINIMAL number of seeds, prob. about 4 seeds. Just my 2cents

Strains being:
Strawberry Cough
Big Bang
G13/Skunk
Brainstorm (seeded one)

 

[Guest]

Bump! More technical nfo would be good if anyone has any.

 

[TheOneWill]

I got allot of seeds from bud that hermied and like 2 out of 12 were male. They were both the same type of bag seed that were males.

 

[Gunnarguchi]

Feminized are generally crap

...but hey...

He he. thats a good one.

Maybe this is what happens give STS to a hermie?

Or maybe just an STS overdoze?

 

[1love1earth]

curious to see what happens, I've got a BUNCH of fem'd stuff that I'm going to be growing, gonna make a bunch of clones and throw them all outdoors, which should be pretty stressful on them, going from indoors, to outdoors, different temp, different light cycle, if they're going to hermie at all, what I'm planning should do it to them.

Besides that, some I'm going to flower indoors as well, so I'll be curious to see how they perform.

Most of the stuff is GHS, lemon skunk, AMS, The Church, and Big Bang all fem'd. The only other fem is Mandala #1, which should be interesting. I've got a solid variety of non-fem'd as well, some Safari mix (from mandala), Hashberry, Satori, and Nirvana Early Girl and Swiss Miss.

So I'm curious to see what happens here, I've certainly thought about doing some crosses, if for no other reason than saving coin on seeds.