Breeding for beginners

[CharlesU Farley]

If we lose so much vigor or wanna stabilize a plant further we can work with BX (backcross).

Because i wanna go with linebreeding (F2,F3,F4,F5,F6) i look for the trait "Vigor". Each generation we lose some of that, so this is the reason.

How You Can Develop Cannabis To Do What You Want

Check out my sig tag to understand my history with cannabis. I’ve been able to accomplish some fairly remarkable things in the 50+ years I’ve been developing it. This thread is going to illustrate how I’ve taken a reverse engineered Sensi Northern Lights 10 pack of seeds, obtained from Gypsy...

www.icmag.com

So everyone has his/her own style its like art in my opinion. You have, to have a goal in mind when you do those things.. Otherwise its just chucking.

From this thread:

The Cannabis Wisdom of Nevil

My recent encounter with @Chimera https://www.icmag.com/threads/welcome-back-chimera.18134471/ reminded me of some of his interactions with Nevil on MNS. Basically, a scientist versus an artist but Nevil was much more adept at understanding the science than Chimera was understanding the art...

www.icmag.com

"...reminded me of some of his interactions with Nevil on MNS. Basically, a scientist versus an artist but Nevil was much more adept at understanding the science than Chimera was understanding the art."

" The art versus science dichotomy is the same as the genetics versus environment argument, everybody thinks it's either one or the other when it's always a glorious combination of the two that creates the best cannabis. "

 

[El Timbo]

" The art versus science dichotomy is the same as the genetics versus environment argument, everybody thinks it's either one or the other when it's always a glorious combination of the two that creates the best cannabis. "

They don't...

 

[Ttutorial]

I'm only 4 days in on hunting 130 F2's I made last season.
I've marked the 10 that haven't popped right up with a toothpick so they can be given first consideration when I start culling.

View attachment 19190667

Interestingly, these 9 in this cell have shown the earliest/most sass of the bunch.
They are from the same father - mother pairing.
It's just the mom was a clone that I made these 9 seeds with on a lark.
Where I made something like 450 of the same with the og mother. Same season outdoors last year.
Is there some extra vigor coming from seeding the clone?
Is this an established thing that I just haven't heard about?

Mountain Gold F2's

Clones always dont have that vigor that a seed plant will have.
That is what i know about - maybe im wrong here but im pretty sure it is like that..

 

[moose/MI]

Clones always dont have that vigor that a seed plant will have.
That is what i know about - maybe im wrong here but im pretty sure it is like that..

What I meant was I topped these 3 plants to keep them smaller so I could do a seed increase.

I cloned one of the tops.

Pollinated both with the same male
but the seeds from the clone are noticeably more vigorous than those made with the bottom half.

 

[Worldatlas]

Can i ask a question about a cannabis line here? Tried i9n another thread but it got deleted for some odd reason. This is a cannabis site...you'd think questions about cannabis that arent toxic would be okay.......can someone explain this to me?

 

[moose/MI]

Can i ask a question about a cannabis line here? Tried i9n another thread but it got deleted for some odd reason. This is a cannabis site...you'd think questions about cannabis that arent toxic would be okay.......can someone explain this to me?

Did you try to post it in an appropriate thread? It's a very large site.

Example, this thread is for beginning breeding questions.
It doesn't sound like you have a breeding question but shoot with it anyway and maybe we can help you find where you should be asking.

 

[Worldatlas]

How about if im trying to discern what breeding lines went into a specific line? For example akbeanbrains
I posted in a rust thread assking if anyone had experience growing it out is all but i also had another website that i got the orig beans from in the post and i think that was a no no so thats my bad.

 

[moose/MI]

How about if im trying to discern what breeding lines went into a specific line? For example akbeanbrains
I posted in a rust thread assking if anyone had experience growing it out is all but i also had another website that i got the orig beans from in the post and i think that was a no no so thats my bad.

I'm not familiar with it.
Very little came up in my search.

 

[Worldatlas]

Im pretty stubborn and have done over 5 yrs incarcerated because i refused to stop growing at a certain point in my life. I'll keep at it and run a few packs maybe i can learn and share!

 

[El Timbo]

How about if im trying to discern what breeding lines went into a specific line? For example akbeanbrains
I posted in a rust thread assking if anyone had experience growing it out is all but i also had another website that i got the orig beans from in the post and i think that was a no no so thats my bad.

Ask the breeder?

 

[Worldatlas]

thx for your insight moose!

 

[Bobaloo]

I just ordered these and I’m going to try my hand this would anyone like to help guide me along the way, I got cheap seeds for my first attempt

 

[Bobaloo]

Quick question do male only produce pollen and you have to pollinate a female to get seeds or do males make seeds also?????

 

[Herbal-Essence]

a pure male will not produce seeds by itself, I mean you don't get pregnant by jerking off do you ?

 

[fullymelted]

Punnett squares dont really work for 99.999999% of cannabis traits because they aren't mendelian. Outside of the PAR region and sex genes its worthless. No 1 single gene controls a trait, they are very very very polygenic and traits are governed by many loci. When you have multiple genes controlling single traits you get additivity and epistasis but never in a single gene Punnett grid which yield discreet predictable ratios of phenotypes. With polygenic inheritance you get a continuous bell curve of phenotype expressions that are more normal/gaussian in distribution. It would be really fucking hard/impossible to take modern clone only strains s97 bagseed runtzlatoboogersandwitchcakez and predict much of anything other than it might be a new version of runtzlatoboogersandwitchcakez in a fancy new mylar bag with a new happy meal toy.
That or some seed breeder will sell the abomination of whatever the genetics are and then it will still likely end up being renamed and in some spray packs.

Crossing two strains together is primitive, you are taking two that you like that you want to merge into one, or traits from one to the other and you cross them and randomly hunt blindly for something close, its archaic and the day 1 grower and the master 50 year ultra wooks are on the same level playing field like it or not.
Cannabis breeding in 2025 is as it was in 1988, 100% preference based, opinions and hype with fishing stories and a WHOOOOOLE lot of lying about penis sizes. You still have to grow a shit load of plants and combine just the right ones with LUCK and pretend that you aren't doing it blind, so that when you do find a keeper you can lie and say that you purposely bred it for those qualities and start a seed brand, but dont worry only the handful of scientists will know you are utterly full of shit. (this goes for all the newjack seed companies none in particular you all share this shame)
The genome isn't fully mapped and there are nowhere near enough primers/markers for those genes, look at Oregon CBD, all the academia, sequencing, cutting edge science, money and muscle in the world and all their genetics suck ass. scientifically engineered sams choice cola.

 

[fullymelted]

a pure male will not produce seeds by itself, I mean you don't get pregnant by jerking off do you ?

it will if you spray it with ethephon twice per week for a few weeks

 

[ArtOfSelection]

As the old saying goes though..... You create your own luck..., you have to be searching for the gold to find the gold ...once you find it , be it pot luck or hard toil, the methods used are neither here nor there

And i believe there is such a thing as over-complicating something, at its heart, breeding is searching for desirable parents and bringing them together in the hope of creating something that surpasses those parents

And as you said, you have organizations with all the scientific tools and knowledge and brain power at their disposal and still they don't find the gold their searching for

Is breeding taking well-established, highly regarded parent clones and chemically splicing their genes together ...Maybe it is

But i believe dedication ...diligence ..coupled with thorough searches,.. a keen eye and some well-honed discernment,.. will get a beginner breeder more success than will the periodic table

 

[Landfein]

Punnett squares dont really work for 99.999999% of cannabis traits because they aren't mendelian. Outside of the PAR region and sex genes its worthless. No 1 single gene controls a trait, they are very very very polygenic and traits are governed by many loci. When you have multiple genes controlling single traits you get additivity and epistasis but never in a single gene Punnett grid which yield discreet predictable ratios of phenotypes. With polygenic inheritance you get a continuous bell curve of phenotype expressions that are more normal/gaussian in distribution. It would be really fucking hard/impossible to take modern clone only strains s97 bagseed runtzlatoboogersandwitchcakez and predict much of anything other than it might be a new version of runtzlatoboogersandwitchcakez in a fancy new mylar bag with a new happy meal toy.
That or some seed breeder will sell the abomination of whatever the genetics are and then it will still likely end up being renamed and in some spray packs.

Crossing two strains together is primitive, you are taking two that you like that you want to merge into one, or traits from one to the other and you cross them and randomly hunt blindly for something close, its archaic and the day 1 grower and the master 50 year ultra wooks are on the same level playing field like it or not.
Cannabis breeding in 2025 is as it was in 1988, 100% preference based, opinions and hype with fishing stories and a WHOOOOOLE lot of lying about penis sizes. You still have to grow a shit load of plants and combine just the right ones with LUCK and pretend that you aren't doing it blind, so that when you do find a keeper you can lie and say that you purposely bred it for those qualities and start a seed brand, but dont worry only the handful of scientists will know you are utterly full of shit. (this goes for all the newjack seed companies none in particular you all share this shame)
The genome isn't fully mapped and there are nowhere near enough primers/markers for those genes, look at Oregon CBD, all the academia, sequencing, cutting edge science, money and muscle in the world and all their genetics suck ass. scientifically engineered sams choice cola.

Thank you very much for this text. Finally, someone says it out loud. From this day on, you have my respect.

 

[fullymelted]

As the old saying goes though..... You create your own luck..., you have to be searching for the gold to find the gold ...once you find it , be it pot luck or hard toil, the methods used are neither here nor there

And i believe there is such a thing as over-complicating something, at its heart, breeding is searching for desirable parents and bringing them together in the hope of creating something that surpasses those parents

And as you said, you have organizations with all the scientific tools and knowledge and brain power at their disposal and still they don't find the gold their searching for

Is breeding taking well-established, highly regarded parent clones and chemically splicing their genes together ...Maybe it is

But i believe dedication ...diligence ..coupled with thorough searches,.. a keen eye and some well-honed discernment,.. will get a beginner breeder more success than will the periodic table

it can be as simple as or as complicated as you want it to be. Its all about ones perception. 99.999% of people could take any male to any female their first time growing, and then turn around and grow those seeds and love it because of the experience. Having "good" genetics comes with experience and building preference. A lot of times its influenced by trying to fit in to crowds or trying to grow what everyone else grows. My favorite is when you cross to polar opposite strains together hoping to merge them, and a 100% different strain that has no resemblance to either parent emerges. As long it doesnt smell like jack herrer or trainwreck im willing to try all new strains.

 

[ArtOfSelection]

it can be as simple as or as complicated as you want it to be. Its all about ones perception. 99.999% of people could take any male to any female their first time growing, and then turn around and grow those seeds and love it because of the experience. Having "good" genetics comes with experience and building preference. A lot of times its influenced by trying to fit in to crowds or trying to grow what everyone else grows. My favorite is when you cross to polar opposite strains together hoping to merge them, and a 100% different strain that has no resemblance to either parent emerges. As long it doesnt smell like jack herrer or trainwreck im willing to try all new strains.

yeah so true i have often been totally surprised by those outliers.. and that imo is probably the biggest challenge for beginner breeders .. the development of a cannabis 'palate' .. and of course personal preference is a big part of that.. but in the same way a good chef has to of tasted a hell of allot of dishes or a top wine connoisseur has to have tasted a ungodly amount of wine,..for an aspiring breeder to gain an informed preference, its going to take allot time and dedication ....it will not happen overnight

i personally believe it also takes a little bit of discipline also, this is just my personal belief but i think bouts of sobriety are key to being able to appreciate the full cannabis spectrum.....a clean canvas provides a fresh start, and it allows the breeder to highlight nuance and differentiate their experiences with the herb

like me personally when i'm strung out on dry sift which i am pretty regularly , trying to objectively critique is nigh on impossible everything just becomes 'mids' .....a clean slate helps me see qualities that would be totally invisible to me when my tolerance is high

i would encourage new breeders to maybe clean their canvas once in a while, especially when trying new varieties or when trying sativas for example if your a heavy indica smoker .. you might just get a differnt point of view


much love

A.O.S