Dime
Well-known member
I think Braddock said Liston took a dive against Ali,as did Chuvalo,both at ringside. Sometimes the winner isn't the best.
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BOXING-Who is the best in your opinion?
- Thread starter Tudo
- Start date
Saw a couple blows to the back of the head by old boy, but cant be helped i guess when young dude is showing his back. Still, that was impressive, he was just throwing haymakers left and right, and had some nifty head movement when young dude fought back.
I know little to nothing about boxing but Hawk makes a somewhat poorly made point: mike tyson in his youth was a bad A mothereffer, too bad he peaked at like 22 years old. When he lost discipline and technique after cus d'mato died is when it started going downhill for him.
These debates over who's the best fighter are the best kind of sports arguments because there's no definitive winner. Would prime tyson have beat prime ali have beat prime joe louis have beat prime marciano? An argument can be made for any one of them. What about tyson fury? Dude is 6'9" and has dad-bod (love handles, jiggly middle) but ducks and weaves like a middleweight and hits as hard as anyone in boxing right now.
I know little to nothing about boxing but Hawk makes a somewhat poorly made point: mike tyson in his youth was a bad A mothereffer, too bad he peaked at like 22 years old. When he lost discipline and technique after cus d'mato died is when it started going downhill for him.
These debates over who's the best fighter are the best kind of sports arguments because there's no definitive winner. Would prime tyson have beat prime ali have beat prime joe louis have beat prime marciano? An argument can be made for any one of them. What about tyson fury? Dude is 6'9" and has dad-bod (love handles, jiggly middle) but ducks and weaves like a middleweight and hits as hard as anyone in boxing right now.
Dime
Well-known member
I like the way the old fella cut off the ring, I saw a slap from the young guy and to me it looked like he turned his back. Looks like the old guy was a good boxer in his day. Maybe they should include super heavyweight as a class. Fury vs Valuev may have been a great one to watch . The winner of best ever can only be taken from their record and the talent of opponents they faced and ducked. Some fighters like Holyfield moved weight class and became champion in more than one class,that says something as well. Fury did not have much competition because the talent is limited and boxing was sort of replaced with MMA for a long time so the money wasn't there so neither was interest , Klitschko was a serious fighter but he was 39 and Fury was 26. I like Fury he brought it back.
Dime
Well-known member
Yes he was world champ in 3 weight divisions. Ward vs Gatti for brutal action. Foreman vs Lyle for top slugfest.
Dime
Well-known member
Holmes was not near ready for that fight,he hadn't fought in 2 years and couldn't refuse the money Don King brought to him. He put on a good show against Holyfield though. In his prime Holmes really was an assassin.At one time him and Foreman signed to fight but they couldn't come up with the $
what! no one mentioned Butterbean yet? he was one of the most interesting fighters ever.
Dime
Well-known member
Butterbean was Holmes' last fight I believe. They should have gave him the split decision instead of calling it a unanimous in the first bout against Spinks because he was champ but he would have tied Marcianos record(Holmes said Rocky fought older men and I fought younger men defending the title) and I also think he beat Spinks in the second one. He was champ from 78-85,one of my fave fights of his was against Mercer who was very dangerous,(just look what he did to Morrison). When he fought Ali he was at his best and I don't think many would have taken him that night.
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still one of the best shots … ever… lol
Dime
Well-known member
Not taking anything from Patterson because he did win it at 21 and was a humble champion,but maybe Ali was being nice for the camera.They didn't like each other. Ali called him an uncle Tom and Patterson would only call him Clay so Ali punished and toyed (some say sadistically and cruel)with him instead of knocking him out . Ali nicknamed all opponents and called him the rabbit prefight because he said a rabbit is afraid of his own shadow and if you corner one it will freeze and tremble.He did KO Archie Moore but he was 43 years old. D'Amato cherry picked a lot of his opponents,arguably right up until Johansson ,and denied Liston for as long as he could because he and his team knew there was no chance and Cus warned him not to take the fight but after meeting JFK he took the fight because JFK didn't want Liston as champ and put pressure on him..Patterson was beat before entering the ring because he brought a disguise for after the fight to leave the building ,but being classy he gave Liston a fight because it had gone on long enough and said Liston deserved a shot because he had no one else to beat and the duck was obvious. My fave champ was Liston,he was a bad ass and went through every top contender and avoided no one to get a title shot,many avoided him though and refused to get in teh ring. Liston still had the scars on his back from when his father used to tie him to a plow and whip him as a child. No one knew how old he was because he didn't have a birth certificate. Foreman said Liston was the only guy to ever back him up when they sparred.Some say he might have been 45 when he retired in the first Ali fight.After Ali,Liston went 16 and one,12 by KO /TKO.He could very well have been 50 or older when he fought Wepner in 70 and gave him over 70 stitches and broke 3 bones in his face.Wepner said he never felt anything like it and every punch felt like a baseball bat.
