Botrytis / Bud rot - A new perspective

[tech1234]

So I am having some botrytis problems this year as many in my location do. More so in the GH then in my woods plots for obvious humidity/lack of natural breeze reasons. The rain has been holding out so far but I'm sure once they come I will be having problems in the woods too.

The best approach is definitely prevention with a proper IPM but Botrytis cinerea is a very worthy opponent and sometimes people make mistakes or the weather screws you...

I think the general consensus has been once botrytis hits chop the affected buds (which can cause big bud loses) and also harvest early (inferior product). I have heard "better early bud than no bud" many times. I think it doesn't have to be this way

I am running a different approach this year as all available fungicides and infected bud removal has not been making a noticeable difference.

Here is my plan:

1-A rotating plan of fungicides have been sprayed as long into flower as I feel comfortable (actinovate, serenade, greencure)

2-environmental controls the best they can be

3-Remove only heavily infected buds

4-Keep a close eye the progression of the Botrytis as well as bud "ripeness"

5-Harvest as soon as you choose (not desperation chop)

6-Harvest/rough trim while separating affected buds from unaffcted buds.

7-Hang unaffected buds to dry/cure (away from any Botrytis)

8- Remove what you can of the Botrytis from the affected buds and put them directly into a deep freezer as soon as you can after harvest

9-Blast (BHO) Fresh Frozen buds. Then redissolve concentrate into 190 proof ethanol and filter through 30 micron filter. (instruction can be found online from Greywolf)

With this system I hope to get AT LEAST 50% well ripened flowers and the rest will not be wasted and should give me a very nice concentrate product

Any thoughts guys?

 

[Noonin NorCal]

I have a enclosed GH going, previous two pulls this season was blacking it out for 12/12. We use a sulfur burner for the GH, and burn sulfur once the plants are transplanted in it. Im not sure if botrytis is the same as powder mildew? But the sulfur burner was used as a preventive for that and haven't had any powder mildew. knock on wood

 

[MadMac]

high,
well in closed environment if power is available use a dehumidifier...
here some use it in the greenhouse to prevent bud rot etc...
We had botrytis and bud rot only on most indica strains...
Since we grow outdoors mostly sativa the problem has gone...
tip: use Africa genetics (Malawi)... this weed grows under rainy and cold conditions...
M.

 

[jefe noche]

Good luck on this. I am planning on building a greenhouse with small supplemental lighting this winter. This will prove a good read. Thank you.

 

[Noonin NorCal]

We run a dehu. at night if we didn't all the panel on the inside would be dripping with condensation. We got a solexx GH

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Not sure about greenhouses, but guerilla style I usually defoliate as much as possible once the rain starts, to increase air flow and avoid water collecting within dense foliage. I have very little issue with rot on any of my outdoor plants and I've run many different strains. East coast. Very rainy.

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

high,
well in closed environment if power is available use a dehumidifier...
here some use it in the greenhouse to prevent bud rot etc...
We had botrytis and bud rot only on most indica strains...
Since we grow outdoors mostly sativa the problem has gone...
tip: use Africa genetics (Malawi)... this weed grows under rainy and cold conditions...
M.

im gonna be trying the Malawi next year. have u ever grown paradise Delahaze? its also a great outdoor plant that wont mold,easy to trim,huge yeilder and potent high quality buzz. have u ever tried kali mist outdoors?

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Not sure about greenhouses, but guerilla style I usually defoliate as much as possible once the rain starts, to increase air flow and avoid water collecting within dense foliage. I have very little issue with rot on any of my outdoor plants and I've run many different strains. East coast. Very rainy.

I second this. I think a big thing with preventing mold and PM is keeping the plant neatly pruned once the rains start (and even a bit before that to stay on top of it). If leaves are tight enough that they're touching in the shade and they're collecting water, you're asking for PM.

That and a rotation of every fungicide imaginable. This year I've used Greencure, sns244c, Horsetail, and Hydrogen Peroxide. I've got it under control pretty well. I've also been working on the plants SAR by spraying Aloe Vera and watering in insect frass which has chitin in it.

 

[MountainBudz]

Hey guys just wanted to throw something in the mix here. I have fought bud rot for many years, I have found methods that work but keep me in the bush constantly, which these days is impossible for me to do, daily checks and all that jazz.

This is not for the organic lovers whatsoever, but if you love your crop enough not to give it up, I have a little solution for ya.

First off, what has and always will cause my botrytis issues is those damn bud worms. Looking very much like the eastern corn burrower, which i'm 99% sure thats the worm that always gets in mine. BT is a great prevention if you start early enough, if you can spray at least once or twice a week. But then again, spraying that often keeps the buds moist which sets up a nice cozy home for the spore to grow.

Sevin will stop them immediately, you do not have to apply sevin nearly as often as BT but it is a dangerous insecticide, but if you wash your buds and spray them at least 2 weeks before you chop them you should be better off.

But as far as stopping the shit in its tracks? I have just now discovered a very effective fungicide that really works as I had a bad outbreak 2 weeks ago spreading literally like wildfire, but after the one application, completely halted and stopped.

CAPTAN. It is very effective, only used mostly for the rot bunch of fungus. I bought it at my local farm store, it was $40 bucks I think for a 5 lb bag. It is very fine powder, mix 2 tbsp's per gallon of water and spray pretty heavily on plants. This is the only fungicide that I could find that isn't too harmful to the body that isn't organic. The main adverse effects are conjunctivitis and dermatitis and to be honest thats to pretty heavy exposure of it.

I got it all over my arms while spraying, I did not wear a mask and did breath the mist a few times, never felt any affects whatsoever. It is not a known carcinogen either.

I am actually heading out to another infested patch tonight and gonna give her a spraying since we had some light rain earlier today.

Give it a shot, it is definitely worth it and does not even hardly smell at all... Bt smells way worse.

 

[minds_I]

Captan ... a google search tells me its a carcinogen

 

[MadMac]

im gonna be trying the Malawi next year. have u ever grown paradise Delahaze? its also a great outdoor plant that wont mold,easy to trim,huge yeilder and potent high quality buzz. have u ever tried kali mist outdoors?

high Kygiacomo,
no did not grow Paradise Delahaze... well for us is it clear since last year... We tried most cool seeds from all over the world last 25 years with up to 8 friends in/outdoor... we know most dutch breeder also some personally... we went every year to Amsterdam to get fresh seeds and new genetics to try... but they failed year by year ... best weed was Big Bud from 1999 - 2003... really big big buds and noo bud rot etc... but than the genetics changed and the big bud's where gone... too much bad phenos etc... we spend so much money and time with these super dutch genetics... mostly crap compared to what we have now...
High is much stronger and better the yield too...
I really hate bud rot and botrytis and loosed so much with it... that's why i write here... i know how much work it is.... and then @ the end you get disappointed .... because you loose so much...
I only can repeat myself... get rid of the dutch indica hybrid crap...
Use Africa genetics like Malawi and outdoor will be fun like it should!

I have a kali china on my balcony this year just to see how she finish in my wet climate... I had Greenhouse "The Church & Himallaya Gold " last year on my Balcony and got Bud rot and mildew... so that was the last try with this genetics... because i can't believe it but now i know...
This Year i have 10 different Outdoor plants in a absolute wet environment.... will post the results... also all my friend testing the new genetics this year too... result until now is excellent !!!

My Outdoor 2015 thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=312221
here is a early Malawi @ 51° lat europa near Amsterdam... she started mid August to flower... faster than all dutch hybrids we had!
Outdoor season finish is here by end October...

Hope this info help some to give the Africa genetics a try...
and plz. remember: it all starts with the genetics... bad genetic bad weed...
we had the best looking plants giant's big big bud's but after a good cure it was weak weak weak... still have some to compare for friends they don't belive... one puff now from my africa genetic and they are done...

M.

P.S. botrytis is often a problem if you use or have to much N @ the end of grow in your medium...

 

[VonBudí]

That and a rotation of every fungicide imaginable. This year I've used Greencure, sns244c, Horsetail, and Hydrogen Peroxide. I've got it under control pretty well. I've also been working on the plants SAR by spraying Aloe Vera and watering in insect frass which has chitin in it.

what ratio do you use for horse tail and how far in to flower do you spray it? ty

 

[MountainBudz]

Captan ... a google search tells me its a carcinogen

Captan was previously cited as Group B2, a probable human carcinogen by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA),[3] but was reclassified in 2004. Since the mode of action has been established as a proliferative response (in mice only) after intestinal villi are disrupted, captan has been deemed not likely to cause tumors at doses that do not irritate the intestine. The EPA now states, "The new cancer classification considers captan to be a potential carcinogen at prolonged high doses that cause cytotoxicity and regenerative cell hyperplasia. These high doses of captan are many orders of magnitude above those likely to be consumed in the diet, or encountered by individuals in occupational or residential settings. Therefore, captan is not likely to be a human carcinogen nor pose cancer risks of concern when used in accordance with approved product labels.[4] A similar reclassification has been made for folpet, captan's sister fungicide, which shares a common mechanism of toxicity.[5][6] A key finding for captan (and folpet) is these fungicides are not mutagenic in vivo; that is, they are not mutagenic in the intact animal.[7][8][9]

 

[MountainBudz]

Captan ... a google search tells me its a carcinogen

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/captangen.pdf


Seems pretty toxic to all but humans and keep in mind this fact sheet was created in 2000, four years before they reclassified it as not a probable carcinogen in humans unless pretty much eaten a good amount of the product.

I also should have added, if you use this, rinse your buds well...

That should rid of enough residues that there should be hardly any adverse effects whatsoever.

This link however, is more up to date:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captan

 

[aridbud]

Even if 'reclassified', anything that could be potentially harmful (possibly a carcinogen) especially to lungs/liver....there are other ways to counteract/combat than using caustic/toxic materials.

Liquid Copper Fungicide....Approved for organic gardening. Bonide Liquid Copper Fungicide controls a large variety of plant diseases, including peach leaf curl, powdery mildew, black spot, rust, anthracnose, fire blight and bacterial leaf spot. Use on vegetables, roses, fruits and turf. Can be used up to the day of harvest.

http://www.planetnatural.com/product/liquid-copper-fungicide/

 

[Eric Green]

This is just what I picked up along the way. To keep bud rot/mold to a min your plots outdoor, green house, or indoor where ever you grow is... you have to have air flow pumping through it
@tech1234 can you hook up fans in your gh as this will help a lot.

 

[Azaghal]

Hello everybody,

i've read about a product called "Botector " which is used by vintners to protect their grapes against Botrytis cinerea. It makes use of a yeast-like fungus called
" Aureobasidium pullulans ".
If applicated onto the plant/leafs the fungus colonizes the surface of the plant/leafes without harming any tissues.
Because of the competition it is harder for Botrytis to establish itself and spread further.

"Furthermore A. pullulans is used in biological control of plant diseases, especially storage diseases.[3][4]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aureobasidium_pullulans

Also the use of Trichoderma harzianum might be useful since it is known as a general tool against pathogenic fungi, especially in the soil and is also capable of producing chitinases which are enzymes that can degrade chitin, a moecule which is found among others in the cell wall of fungi.
https://www.apsnet.org/publications...ues/Documents/1996Abstracts/Phyto_86_1255.htm

Furthermore foliar applications of alcoholic extracts of Liverworts seem to be helpful against Botrytis from my personal experience. Mandala Seeds do recommend these extracts on their Hompage.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942204002298

Then there is moreover the possibility to use preventive sprayings of hosetail extract
(silicic acid) or potassium water glass ( potassium silicate) to harden and thicken the cell walls of the plants which makes it more difficult for hyphae of Botrytis to penetrate these to get into the cell.
Potassium silicate is also used by vintners to protect their grapes.

The last thing I'd like to mention is the use of chitosan. It is an elicitor which induces defences mechanisms against Pathogens and stimulates the production of phytoalexins.
"In agriculture, chitosan is used primarily as a natural seed treatment and plant growth enhancer, and as an ecologically friendly biopesticide substance that boosts the innate ability of plants to defend themselves against fungal infections.[7] The natural biocontrol active ingredients, chitin/chitosan, are found in the shells of crustaceans, such as lobsters, crabs, and shrimp, and many other organisms, including insects and fungi. It is one of the most abundant biodegradable materials in the world.

Degraded molecules of chitin/chitosan exist in soil and water. Chitosan applications for plants and crops are regulated by the EPA, and the USDA National Organic Program regulates its use on organic certified farms and crops.[8] EPA-approved, biodegradable chitosan products are allowed for use outdoors and indoors on plants and crops grown commercially and by consumers.[9] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168945213000630
http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._mold_management_in_strawberry_during_storage

I personally would define all of these treatment options as suiatable for organic growing, but that's only my opinion ......

Hope it helps

Cheers

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

Hello everybody,

i've read about a product called "Botector " which is used by vintners to protect their grapes against Botrytis cinerea. It makes use of a yeast-like fungus called
" Aureobasidium pullulans ".
If applicated onto the plant/leafs the fungus colonizes the surface of the plant/leafes without harming any tissues.
Because of the competition it is harder for Botrytis to establish itself and spread further.

"Furthermore A. pullulans is used in biological control of plant diseases, especially storage diseases.[3][4]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aureobasidium_pullulans

Also the use of Trichoderma harzianum might be useful since it is known as a general tool against pathogenic fungi, especially in the soil and is also capable of producing chitinases which are enzymes that can degrade chitin, a moecule which is found among others in the cell wall of fungi.
https://www.apsnet.org/publications...ues/Documents/1996Abstracts/Phyto_86_1255.htm

Furthermore foliar applications of alcoholic extracts of Liverworts seem to be helpful against Botrytis from my personal experience. Mandala Seeds do recommend these extracts on their Hompage.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942204002298

Then there is moreover the possibility to use preventive sprayings of hosetail extract
(silicic acid) or potassium water glass ( potassium silicate) to harden and thicken the cell walls of the plants which makes it more difficult for hyphae of Botrytis to penetrate these to get into the cell.
Potassium silicate is also used by vintners to protect their grapes.

The last thing I'd like to mention is the use of chitosan. It is an elicitor which induces defences mechanisms against Pathogens and stimulates the production of phytoalexins.
"In agriculture, chitosan is used primarily as a natural seed treatment and plant growth enhancer, and as an ecologically friendly biopesticide substance that boosts the innate ability of plants to defend themselves against fungal infections.[7] The natural biocontrol active ingredients, chitin/chitosan, are found in the shells of crustaceans, such as lobsters, crabs, and shrimp, and many other organisms, including insects and fungi. It is one of the most abundant biodegradable materials in the world.

Degraded molecules of chitin/chitosan exist in soil and water. Chitosan applications for plants and crops are regulated by the EPA, and the USDA National Organic Program regulates its use on organic certified farms and crops.[8] EPA-approved, biodegradable chitosan products are allowed for use outdoors and indoors on plants and crops grown commercially and by consumers.[9] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168945213000630
http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._mold_management_in_strawberry_during_storage

I personally would define all of these treatment options as suiatable for organic growing, but that's only my opinion ......

Hope it helps

Cheers

i 2nd the use of chitosan my main source is from insect frass,but i also have bud factor x which is also chitosan!! i have been using it this year for prevention along with a couple other SAR inducers like Salicylic Acid and regalia, in which im having fantastic results. NO mold at all this year so far! im a big believer in SAR/ISR products and when u mix that with a few contact fungicides like greencure,actinovate or mycostop u will have outdoor tank for the fungi to get thur..good links!

 

[mikeandnaomi]

Been using these for years...

Serenad OMRI

Captain Jacks Spinosid

Monterey BT

Monterey Take Down Spray

All Organic

Our rotation and works great ....

 

[tech1234]

Quick update: This system that I outlined in the OP worked well this year for me. Selective harvesting of early mold buds , separating and prepping for oil production while letting the rest of the plant mature and ripen. Pulled about 1 3/4 elbows per with about 1/2 elbow to oil production with about 15% of that going to the trash. Much better than the complete crop loss it could have been.

I hope everyone else is doing well this year

Next year better IPM and more air circulation and even more refined mold resistance genetics