Blumat auto watering

[wisco61]

I agree with that, and that's what makes it frustrating. To exacerbate the mystery, I actually allow my rez to drop as much as eight inches at times before refilling, due primarily to laziness or hectic schedules.

I wish I could add some useful information to the conversation, but I have no idea why my experience might be any different from anyone else's. I use two Blumats per pot, have my feed line in a loop configuration, have my reservoir about five feet above the drippers, and once they are set I never adjust my Blumats. Other people do those things too, with apparently widely varying degrees of success.

I love my Blumats and strongly feel that they have been quite an asset, but I completely understand why people reading this thread may be less confident in spending the money for them.


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What do you use for the feed line? I think part of the differences may be the manifold effect some people are getting by using larger feed lines versus the 3mm throughout. The five foot high res is big too. If I take a 3mm feed line off a tee water shoots up to my ceiling.

 

[rrog]

People are using something other than the 3mm silicone drip lines from BM? I know some use 1/2" rather than the 8mm supplies

 

[wisco61]

Not sure what you mean exactly. You have to use the 3mm for the drip lines. But some people use it all the way from the res as feed line because its easy to work with.

You could use 4" pvc with the kent systems tees stuck in for a feed line if you wanted. It only matters what is going directly to the dripper. The patio kit comes with a a lot of the 8mm so people are probably still using that stuff up.

 

[rrog]

From what I've read, using anything but the BM 3mm is no way gonna work

 

[rives]

The fact that the plants farther away from the res were the affected ones points to either a clog or pressure problem. It just seems unlikely to me that it would happen that way if it was some other type of problem. Perhaps there was some partial blockage in the tee after the first pot that dropped the pressure to the remaining pots? Are you using the 3mm drip line to connect the plants?

What kind of auto top off are you running anyways?

I use the 8mm line for a supply line, and then T into it with the 3mm line for the blumats. I would lean toward an air bubble causing the problem more than some other type of blockage - there should have been something that came out of the supply line when I purged it if that were the case. I use an aquarium refill circuit from the following link. To my knowledge, it has never missed a lick.

http://www.marinedepot.com/SpectraP...ms-SpectraPure-SP5111-FIRORAFV-SP5111-vi.html

 

[mugenbao]

What do you use for the feed line? I think part of the differences may be the manifold effect some people are getting by using larger feed lines versus the 3mm throughout. The five foot high res is big too. If I take a 3mm feed line off a tee water shoots up to my ceiling.

I use the larger-diameter (8mm?) line that came with the Deck and Patio set for the main feed line, and the standard-length 3mm (brown) tubing from the main feed line to individual Blumats. Perhaps it's significant to note that I use only what came in the Patio kit?

As for the rez height: If I pop a 3mm line off of the tee, I would say it shoots just barely far enough to shoot me in the face unexpectedly, lol

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[rrog]

... But some people use it (3mm drip) all the way from the res as feed line because its easy to work with.

Ah. I understand. I had no idea people did this. Thanks for that clarification

 

[wisco61]

I use the 8mm line for a supply line, and then T into it with the 3mm line for the blumats. I would lean toward an air bubble causing the problem more than some other type of blockage - there should have been something that came out of the supply line when I purged it if that were the case. I use an aquarium refill circuit from the following link. To my knowledge, it has never missed a lick.

http://www.marinedepot.com/SpectraP...ms-SpectraPure-SP5111-FIRORAFV-SP5111-vi.html

I would try using a small water pump running 24/7 next time you leave. If I remember correctly you have a pretty short res which exaggerates the differences in water height.

 

[ak-51]

Sorry to hear about your problems Rives. I think we all seem like bright enough motherfuckers in here so maybe we can all figure these problems out together.

When I was just setting mine up I've had instances where the 3mm drip line seemed to stick together at the pinch point. I think this was just because they were new though, and I haven't had this issue since. Even if it were an issue, proper pressure should open it back up, and running water only makes it seem unlikely that it could gum up at that point.

Air leaking into the core of the unit could cause the problems that you described with one unit... although it seems unlikely that it would happen to so many units at once. I see 4 places where air could be leaking in:
1. Where the ceramic meets the light green plastic, solve with thing ring of silicone
2. Where the unit screws together, both light green plastic, solve with teflon tape
3. Where the white diaphragm meets the light green plastic, possibly a very small amount of silicone

Where the light green plastic and the dark green plastic meet is not important. It is not airtight.

I disassembled one of my units and took some macro pics of the insides. I'll upload them in a minute so nobody else has to mess theirs up (although I think this one is still fine actually).

 

[ak-51]

 

[sunnydog]

I have them in regular black garden trays at the moment, plastic on the floor. Concrete slab, so not such a big deal, just a potential PITA.

I have a theory on this; Seems floods are possibly(likely) caused by the silicone (3mm) drip line getting pinched and staying that way. This in turn allows the soil to dry out, sucks water from the carrot and shit gets all fucked up.

So... the B/M pressure reducer puts out a good bit more pressure/ volume, much more than most passive systems. This could be why peeps like Lazyman ,using really large resos, appear to suffer less than folks using smaller systems.
If the above is an accurate "failure scenario" I expect to see a decrease or complete elimination of this troubling aspect of an otherwise perfect device.

If this is true, possibly using HIGHER pressure than is practical with a gravity fed unit is the answer.
So far, so good....................

 

[rrog]

Very interesting and helpful. I agree that with all these smart bastards on the scene the solution should be illuminated

 

[Herborizer]

I don't keep constant pressure. I have two tents. Each tent has it's own 30 gal reservoir. I don't refill each reservoir until they are empty.

I don't have runaways. On my 8th month of constant usage.

Maybe you guys are on to something about higher pressure. In my setup I use 1/2 inch tubing from the res to my tray. Then I use the Kent systems connectors with the 3mm lines to the drippers. The 3mm lines are maybe 12-24 inches.

One thing I do when going out of town for 4+ days, I adjust the drip to 1% runoff and leave it there. When I get back everything is great. I just figure I am compensating for the drop in the reservoir.

Another thing I do is I have the drip line shorter than the 8cm they recommend. I think everyone thinks that making it longer is safer. I agree this seems to make sense. In practice, shorter is more consistent. I don't know why, I just know it works. I will measure and report back if anyone is ciorious. I would guess 1.5 inches.

 

[mugenbao]

Another thing I do is I have the drip line shorter than the 8cm they recommend. I think everyone thinks that making it longer is safer. I agree this seems to make sense. In practice, shorter is more consistent. I don't know why, I just know it works. I will measure and report back if anyone is ciorious. I would guess 1.5 inches.

I also keep the 3mm line short. It might seem reasonable that having it longer is helpful, but I've not had any problems so have not been tempted to try it.

This might be significant?

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[rrog]

I haven't done shit yet myself, but I've read and have in my notes to keep the drip lines short to help with runoff.

AK-51, you are a prince to post your thoughts and those pics

 

[ak-51]

AK-51, you are a prince to post your thoughts and those pics

No prob! I was curious myself what the insides looked like so I figured while I was taking a look I might as well share.

I haven't stopped thinking about how Rives' problems could have happened. The probability of 4 of 6 going out, and the two functioning ones being in one pot may be a clue. It seems like it would be much more likely that 2 units in different pots failed, and somehow caused a domino effect in each of their counterparts. Is it possible that when one unit in a pot failed the other one was unable to keep up with the 100% increase in demand and dried out as well? I know the units self-adjust to a certain degree, but I wonder what degree that is. This domino theory would be more probable if having more units means having the flow knob tighter/ further down. But thinking about it it seems like each individual blumat unit is essentially "blind" to other variables that effect the moisture level. We adjust them to flow at a certain rate when the moisture level drops below a certain point. Runoff should be the only thing we're adjusting to effect right? On the other hand (again), it's possible that with the increased demand, even with the diaphragm/lower pinch point all the way down/open the flow knob was already so tight that the maximum rate it could drip was not enough to keep up with the demand of the plant. Of course this domino theory doesn't explain why the initial two failed in the first place. I'm still thinking that air leaks into the core of the unit itself is the most likely culprit

Thoughts, criticisms welcome. If these ideas I'm throwing out are flawed tear them apart.

 

[rives]

I've been kicking the idea around of elevating the supply line to slightly above the blumat level, and turning the T's for the 3mm take-off points so that they point down (right now my supply line is at floor level with the 3mm T's pointing up). It seems that this would help keep them from getting an air lock - the air would naturally hug the top of supply tubing and hopefully get pushed along toward the vent at the end of the run. Has anybody tried this?

 

[rrog]

This seems like a good train of thought. As is having valves strategically placed / elevated to catch rising bubbles and vent. Being unaware, I would have only set up a system based on the water being delivered, not on channeling, capturing and venting inevitable bubbles.

I could imagine that the drops in pressure could help create bubbles by removing dissolved O2, and this might be compounded by temp changes. Water in 3mm drip lines might be higher temp than res. Water in drip lines would warm further if the valve is shut.

Not sure if any of that is remotely relevant, but this is obviously a delicate system so perhaps influenced by delicate variables.

 

[sunnydog]

So far...Excellent!

So far...Excellent!

Sunny has FINALLY hooked up the pressure reducer.
This will (eventually) supply 60-100 sites
I will advise.

So far...Excellent!
Side note, I have 2 identical rooms,one with B/Ms, one without, (haven't had time). Room with B/Ms is clearly outperforming the unequipped side.
Watering is a pain in the ass.

 

[heady blunts]

when you make the drip line longer than 8cm from the blumat to the drip end you're asking for runaways.

if you feel compelled to do that your container might be big enough for two blumats.

shorter than 8cm seems to work fine.