Blumat auto watering

[bigbadbiddy]

Hi there,

the grow isn't terrible large as it is for my personal use.

I am calculating about 20 5gallon pots although it looks like I will run less (maybe 15 or 16) at a time, calculating with 20 should be alright.

The pump+accumulator is a bit overkill but it is the smallest one I could find.
There are maybe one or two smaller pumps available but the manufacturers don't mean anything to me. The one I selected, I can trust the manufacturer.

I also have some height to overcome as I will place the res and pump in an adjacent room and have to run the line around (or over) some furniture.

A pre-filter is already part of the pump system but I am using well-water with 0.1 ppm anyway and won't run any nutes through the system either. Just plain well-water.

A pressure gauge is also part of the pump/accumulator system as is a foot-valve.

I am unsure however if the pressure can be set or if it always runs at 3.6 bar. But I hope the pressure reduction nozzle from the Blumat kit will handle that?

Thanks a bunch for the kind response Bwanabud. Very informative and nice, was expecting something more along the line "yo you retard, read back a few pages it's all laid out there".
So this is very refreshing and makes me smile

 

[Bwanabud]

BBB,
I think your pump/expansion tank assembly is far too large. The standard Blumat set-up is a 26oz accumulator & 1.8gph pump, according to Blumat this will handle 200 plants. I enlarged my system capacity to handle 45-60 plants in 5 gal. pots, to increase efficiency and minimize pump cycling...others mileage may vary

I'm now running 2 full Blumat systems, each watering 2 different rooms, 75 plants per system, 2 & 3 gallon pots using Coco as media...utilizing a 1.8 gph pump & 5 gallon expansion tank per system (if I do another system will increase to a 3 gph pump).

The rule of thumb is 1/4 gallon of water per plant-per day, your accumulator sizing is reasonable...but the pump far too large. Blumat recommends a 34-38 psi system pressure, that's provided by a 150 psi pump...that steps down to 12-14 psi at the pressure reducer. Basically you've mis-matched your initial set-up in my opinion, I'd look at other options in sizing based on your location.


Here are the some suggestions that are available on Amazon or Ebay:

Shurflo 182-200 accumulator
Shurflo 2088-594-154 demand pump 3 gpm
Shurflow 255-133 filter strainer housing

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Thanks mate,

problem is, I'm a euro fag and thus work from a different basis on much stuff.

For example: I would have no idea where I would get a separate pump and accumulator to work together.
On the flipside, there are pump+accumulator systems available for relatively cheap (100 Bucks).

But none of these have less than 3300 l/hr and 630W is also the smallest pump already.


Do you think the system will be too powerful and thus wear down the Blumat system unnecessarily?
I had hoped that it would just result in "additional capacity" and as a result, hopefully, less wear and tear over the years.

But I simply can't get a smaller pump+accumulator system.

A pump alone could be available at smaller specs but then I would be running around looking for an accumulator, connect it all, hoping everything matches and works together.
For 100 bucks I was quite happy with this all in one solution that looks like I only need to connect the parts and flip on the switch.

 

[chris harris]

Could you not put a "t" in before the pressure reducer, and run a return line back to your reservoir? Put a valve on it to give you some flexibility, and it would help aerate, and agitate the reservoir?

 

[Bwanabud]

Thanks mate,

problem is, I'm a euro fag and thus work from a different basis on much stuff.

For example: I would have no idea where I would get a separate pump and accumulator to work together.
On the flipside, there are pump+accumulator systems available for relatively cheap (100 Bucks).

But none of these have less than 3300 l/hr and 630W is also the smallest pump already.


Do you think the system will be too powerful and thus wear down the Blumat system unnecessarily?
I had hoped that it would just result in "additional capacity" and as a result, hopefully, less wear and tear over the years.

But I simply can't get a smaller pump+accumulator system.

A pump alone could be available at smaller specs but then I would be running around looking for an accumulator, connect it all, hoping everything matches and works together.
For 100 bucks I was quite happy with this all in one solution that looks like I only need to connect the parts and flip on the switch.

I'm quite sure the UK boys camp and travel, go to an RV camper dealer/parts on-line and you will find the parts/or similar that I posted. The smaller demand pump/accumulator are used extensively for campers/boats/wet bars

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Thanks, will look into it.

The ones I looked at were something like this one (can be found on amazon uk for pics n english description n stuff):
Güde HWW 1000P

The one I wanted to buy is more or less the same, just a bit less powerful.

Still not sure if this is fine, just a bit overkill or if it is overkill and not fine because it will harm the system ...

 

[Bwanabud]

Thanks, will look into it.

The ones I looked at were something like this one (can be found on amazon uk for pics n english description n stuff):
Güde HWW 1000P

The one I wanted to buy is more or less the same, just a bit less powerful.

Still not sure if this is fine, just a bit overkill or if it is overkill and not fine because it will harm the system ...

I just jumped on Ebay-UK and found all the Shurflow parts I had listed, you can use what you want...but system design specs have reasonable guidelines for a reason, you are far outside of those especially with 20 plants.

Good luck and happy growing

 

[skyview]

Could you not put a "t" in before the pressure reducer, and run a return line back to your reservoir? Put a valve on it to give you some flexibility, and it would help aerate, and agitate the reservoir?

Putting a tee before the pressure reducer is good way to use more than one pressure reducer. That can really make sense if if you have plants in different rooms. And if there is a long distance between your reservoir and the plants, you can separate the pressure reducer from the pump and put it close to the plants without losing as much pressure to friction loss. Running a line back into your reservoir though could keep the pressure switch from turning the pump off.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I'm still not sure if the pump/accumulator I wanted to use is too large as in "unnecessary but fine" or if it is too large as in "that stuff will hurt your blumat system"

I will look into the parts you listed and uk ebay/amazon again but if it doesn't actively harm the blumat system, I would prefer the option I picked out for ease of use (and also because I can use it for other parts of the garden, watering the tomatoes and whatnot).

 

[chris harris]

Putting a tee before the pressure reducer is good way to use more than one pressure reducer. That can really make sense if if you have plants in different rooms. And if there is a long distance between your reservoir and the plants, you can separate the pressure reducer from the pump and put it close to the plants without losing as much pressure to friction loss. Running a line back into your reservoir though could keep the pressure switch from turning the pump off.

Good point. I was thinking he was running the pump continuously. I guess you could if it was an inline, but submersible would probably heat the res up too much.
Maybe try setting the pressure switch limits fairly high/ fairly low, to limit the amount of time the pump cycles then. If your accumulator is large enough, and the pressure regulator is downstream of it, then that pump shouldn't see too much cycling.

 

[skyview]

I'm still not sure if the pump/accumulator I wanted to use is too large as in "unnecessary but fine" or if it is too large as in "that stuff will hurt your blumat system"

I will look into the parts you listed and uk ebay/amazon again but if it doesn't actively harm the blumat system, I would prefer the option I picked out for ease of use (and also because I can use it for other parts of the garden, watering the tomatoes and whatnot).

I don't think there is much downside to having a bigger accumulator or pressure tank. Basically the bigger the tank, the less the pump has to run and longer it lasts.

 

[Bwanabud]

I'm still not sure if the pump/accumulator I wanted to use is too large as in "unnecessary but fine" or if it is too large as in "that stuff will hurt your blumat system"

I will look into the parts you listed and uk ebay/amazon again but if it doesn't actively harm the blumat system, I would prefer the option I picked out for ease of use (and also because I can use it for other parts of the garden, watering the tomatoes and whatnot).

There's 460 pages of help and useful advice, all listing either a 1.8 gpm or 3 gpm pump for up to 200 plants...if you choose to make your own configuration with a pump that's 5x larger for 20 plants that's your call.

A larger pressure tank is one thing, a larger pump is quite another considering head pressure/self priming/check valve/supply piping/internal pressure switch/noise...but have at it

 

[rives]

The biggest downside to a larger pump would be the potential for the motor to have a significantly shorter life. Electric motors pull substantially more current while starting than running, and you want them to run for as long as possible to cool down after the inrush current from startup dissipates. They are usually designed to self-cool while running. Pumps are very low inertia, so they would have less problem with this than a hard-starting load. The rule of thumb for usable volume from an accumulator is roughly half of it's capacity, so you can estimate that your pump will need to kick on after 10 liters of usage and it will run for about 10 seconds. On the other hand, a 1.8gpm pump would run for about 90 seconds.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't think there is much downside to having a bigger accumulator or pressure tank. Basically the bigger the tank, the less the pump has to run and longer it lasts.

Not quite. The pump will have to run just as much to push the same amount of water. It'll just start less frequently & run longer than it would on a smaller accumulator. That's a good thing, in general.

If the accumulator becomes water logged, loses its gas charge, the pump will short cycle on/off/on/off rather quickly causing heat buildup in the motor & possible failure.

 

[skyview]

Not quite. The pump will have to run just as much to push the same amount of water. It'll just start less frequently & run longer than it would on a smaller accumulator. That's a good thing, in general.

If the accumulator becomes water logged, loses its gas charge, the pump will short cycle on/off/on/off rather quickly causing heat buildup in the motor & possible failure.

It seems like this kind of damage to the accumulator tank is more likely when the pump is too big as Bwanabud describes.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Thanks guys.

It's not that I want to disregard 500 pages of info and advice.

I just have that available and wanted to check if it has any drawbacks aside from being "larger than necessary".

The short-cycling of the pump makes sense to me and I can understand how that can shorten the life span of the pump.

I will have a last chat with the pump manufacturer to hear his opinion on all this. I do have a 2 year warranty on the pump system I chose if I go with it after all. If the manufacturer agrees that this will be a bad use of the pump system and should significantly shorten its life span or something, I will try to source the components Bwanabud listed and build something myself.

Thing is I already had a quick look at the components and it looked like it would be as if not more expensive to build a system myself. And without the warranty.

 

[Bwanabud]

BBB,
Do as you like, but the pump/tank you're considering is a high discharge transfer pump...it's for large quantities of rain water or cistern applications. For it's intended use works great, for a small dripper application it's a short cycling loud ineffective mofo.



There's nothing wrong with thinking out of the box, or adapting systems to your own requirements...but your intended application will be ill suited to the finicky dripper heads, and fluctuation in pressure only make tuning the carrot sensors more difficult.

Best wishes

 

[blowingupjake]

Okay, noob-ish question here:

If I want to run in soil should I just amend it so that I don't have to adjust pH of the reservoir?

Been hand watering for 6 years now, pHing every time, so the concept of filling the reservoir and forgetting about it scares the hell out of me.

I need to order the blumat system this month as I am about to take a job that will have me away from the garden 4 or 5 days a week...

The pH thing is my only question.

Thanks to all the contributors earlier in the thread!!


Stay hazed,
Jake

 

[Bwanabud]

Jake,
Adjusting PH in the rez is easy, if you know how many gallons are in the rez,,,if you don't run air stones in the rez, your PH will be pretty stable...just don't plan on using an organic nute base, if you're organic soil.

The plants use 1/4 gal. each plant/each day as an average,,,so size rez accordingly for a 5 day trip away from home. Remember your initial sensor adjustment is critical, and could possibly have a run-away pot...but should know in a day or 2.

 

[blowingupjake]

I'm surprised by your response. When I leave one gallon jugs out over night the pH always seems to creep up (more basic) the scale, so I figured the same thing would happen in my 20 gallon (or whatever) reservoir.

Does the sheer volume of water help to maintain the pH level?
I do run Organic, but don't feed very often.
Thank you for your reply, very much appreciated!

Stay Hazed,
Jake