Blumat auto watering

[Sforza]

Is the feeding 8mm tube best to keep under the pot level or over the pot level? Just rearranged my setup and made the feed line sit above the pots to feed down to the carrot because i just automaticly assumed this was the best?

Is it best to have the feedingline feeding from under the carrot or over the carrot and down?
What option does prevent air in the lines the most? im confused on this

Peace

I don't think it matters whether you run the 8mm line at the level of the bottom of the pots, as I do, or at the same level as the top of the pot, or above the pot. Since it is all below the level at the top of the reservoir, the actual pressure at the carrot is going to be the same.

I use a line at the end of the run with a valve on it to let water run out the end of the line to purge air out of the lines. Sometimes, when I have adjusted things, I will run the water out the purge line and if there was some air introduced into the system, the water coming out of the purge line will spit and sputter a bit as the air is pushed out and then the water will come out in a nice steady stream. I also use the purge line to water plants that I want to add a little extra water to and to water in the carrots when I first put them into the pots.

Once the air is purged, and as long as you keep your upper reservoir topped off, there really isn't any way for air to get into your lines if all your connections are tight.

 

[kollos]

I don't think it matters whether you run the 8mm line at the level of the bottom of the pots, as I do, or at the same level as the top of the pot, or above the pot. Since it is all below the level at the top of the reservoir, the actual pressure at the carrot is going to be the same.

I use a line at the end of the run with a valve on it to let water run out the end of the line to purge air out of the lines. Sometimes, when I have adjusted things, I will run the water out the purge line and if there was some air introduced into the system, the water coming out of the purge line will spit and sputter a bit as the air is pushed out and then the water will come out in a nice steady stream. I also use the purge line to water plants that I want to add a little extra water to and to water in the carrots when I first put them into the pots.

Once the air is purged, and as long as you keep your upper reservoir topped off, there really isn't any way for air to get into your lines if all your connections are tight.

Okey thanks alot for the info.

The problem is i run 1 time with this setup Before, and Everything worked perfect, but im afraid that "next time i will get air in the system like i have read"

Because i dont really know why they have air in the system so im not sure when or if i will get it.

But the wierd thing is that when i purged my end line i also have a valve in the end of the line, it was air allways in my line, but never had a single problem, Im thinking that i had so much pressure so it sucked in air when i purged it in my special line in the top, i had a 8mm go up in the air over the reservoir because i read and see Pictures of people using a airline right in the start of the feedline up by the reservoir.

Im thinking that i had so much pressure so when i purged it, it sucked in air tru the "air vent" in the beginning? and when i stopped purge it was all good again?

Anyone have any idea why ? A good guy on this site told me to get rid of the air line in the beginning also, so now its gone untill next run anyway. I hope i will not get any air problems!!

 

[sunnydog]

Doesn't matter if the small lines come from the top or bottom. I left mine long so I could move the pots around, and had them drop down from the top so they were less likely to be pinched by the pots.

 

[Sforza]

A good guy on this site told me to get rid of the air line in the beginning also, so now its gone untill next run anyway. I hope i will not get any air problems!!

I think that the good guy gave you good advise to get rid of the air line near the reservoir.

Blumat does not show any open air lines in any of their diagrams and neither does Sustainable Village. I use a loop of 8 mm line with both ends attached to the upper reservoir. The purge line at the mid point of the loop.

I think that if you have your upper reservoir up high, so that you have good pressure at the carrot, and you have an open air line in the loop near the upper reservoir, when you open your purge line, it sucks air into the line from the open air line. Somewhere in the 290 pages of posts I think I remember a poster saying that he had an open air line and a purge line and he noticed that when he opened up his purge line, it sucked air into the system because that was like the path of least resistance in the system.

 

[kollos]

I think that the good guy gave you good advise to get rid of the air line near the reservoir.

Blumat does not show any open air lines in any of their diagrams and neither does Sustainable Village. I use a loop of 8 mm line with both ends attached to the upper reservoir. The purge line at the mid point of the loop.

I think that if you have your upper reservoir up high, so that you have good pressure at the carrot, and you have an open air line in the loop near the upper reservoir, when you open your purge line, it sucks air into the line from the open air line. Somewhere in the 290 pages of posts I think I remember a poster saying that he had an open air line and a purge line and he noticed that when he opened up his purge line, it sucked air into the system because that was like the path of least resistance in the system.

Ye! exaclly what i meant all of it. Now its gone and i hope it will work out fine, because as i said last time it was allways air when purged but never any failures, and i guessed the air came from the air line in top! but in all the 300 pages somewhere it was a big disscussion about the air line in top, and everybody sayd ye its awesome i Think lets try it, thats why i tryd it.

But u say the small line is the same above or under the pot, yes but the whole 8mm line? seems like it maybe lose pressure or something if it has to feed upwards, i have 8mm feed line, and then i have 3way split to each pot, and a shutdown valve, and then a small small 8mm more, to a 8mm/3mm split, and then to the carrot, so i can shut down every line and lose the small 3mm feed line to the carrot and change the pots move them.

Is this a good idea? dident had this Before this idea is the new setup, because 1 plant died because i couldent move them etc because i dont want to lose the line at the carrot, thats a big job and air in the lines. But does this setup allow me to move and not get air ?

Thanks

 

[rives]

I have one system with the 8mm line at the base of the pots, and two systems with the 8mm line a few inches over the top of the pots. There is no difference in how they work - the pressure is based on the difference in elevation from the water surface in the reservoir to the 3mm connection on the Blumat, and what happens in between is irrelevant to static pressure. Looooong lengths of 3mm tubing could reduce the pressure somewhat at higher flow levels, but that should only happen during runaways and is probably a good thing!

The plumbing arrangement that you describe should help keep air out of the system - you would likely still get some air in the line between the valve and the Blumat when you pull that line, but it should be easily purged by opening the setting on the spike and letting the water run briefly when you reconnect. Mark the setting of the arrow on the spike with some white-out correction fluid (Liquid Paper) so you can easily come back to your setting.

If I need to work on an individual spike during a run, I turn off the feed valves at the reservoir, pull the 3mm line off and replace it with a short piece of 3mm line with a couple of knots tied in it. The feed valves being turned off pretty well hydraulically locks the 8mm line and keeps air from entering. When I hook back up, I turn the reservoir feed valves back on and open the Blumat valve briefly as described above, and it has always worked for me.

 

[Ez Rider]

I'm considering changing my blumats over to a pressurized system with a pump and accumulator tank as I'd like to do away with the elevated rez. The kit they sell on the blumat site is like $800! I seriously doubt there's $200 worth of parts in this kit. Does anyone have some solid DIY info for building a pressurized system. I seem to recall someone posting a build, but I can't find it.

Thanks,

Ez

 

[skyview]

I think the kit you're talking about also includes 50 carrots and many more parts and fittings. The pump parts alone are only $389:
https://www.sustainablevillage.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_75&product_id=210

 

[stoned-trout]

after about 6 years they finally have gotten near some soil....lol.. I actually have one more big milk crate on the pallet now.so 7 big, one small..I lost one of the bulkhead fittings...I wanna do 2 small plants per container except for the small one ....yeehaw...now I need to get a reservoir setup..so hopefully within a few months at the rate I been going should be running ....

 

[Ez Rider]

I think the kit you're talking about also includes 50 carrots and many more parts and fittings. The pump parts alone are only $389:
https://www.sustainablevillage.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_75&product_id=210

From what I can see, the accumulator tank, pump, and filter run ~$100 together from amazon or e-bay, the blumat pressure reducer is $45. I can't see paying SV an extra $200+ just for putting it all in 1 box. I've been doing a little looking since I posted, and setting it up looks very simple. I'd still like to see a good DIY writeup though.

 

[kollos]

I have one system with the 8mm line at the base of the pots, and two systems with the 8mm line a few inches over the top of the pots. There is no difference in how they work - the pressure is based on the difference in elevation from the water surface in the reservoir to the 3mm connection on the Blumat, and what happens in between is irrelevant to static pressure. Looooong lengths of 3mm tubing could reduce the pressure somewhat at higher flow levels, but that should only happen during runaways and is probably a good thing!

The plumbing arrangement that you describe should help keep air out of the system - you would likely still get some air in the line between the valve and the Blumat when you pull that line, but it should be easily purged by opening the setting on the spike and letting the water run briefly when you reconnect. Mark the setting of the arrow on the spike with some white-out correction fluid (Liquid Paper) so you can easily come back to your setting.

If I need to work on an individual spike during a run, I turn off the feed valves at the reservoir, pull the 3mm line off and replace it with a short piece of 3mm line with a couple of knots tied in it. The feed valves being turned off pretty well hydraulically locks the 8mm line and keeps air from entering. When I hook back up, I turn the reservoir feed valves back on and open the Blumat valve briefly as described above, and it has always worked for me.

Once again you have blown me away by perfect answer on my questions.

Thanks alot for all your input, this helped me alot once again.
ICmag should be proud to have such a great spirit with your knowledge.



Do anyone know if a "airpump" with a so called "airstone" makes the resevoir bad or air inside the lines then?
Because i have a circulation pump with a 16mm hose connected with some holes to it that just spread water around inside the resevoir to keep it moving, but its making alot of sound and i Think maybe the air pump make a better job just moving around the water? Because i also need to move the water for my new autoaquasystem PH regulator.

Or is the airstone causing more problems then it helps me should i just continue move it around with waterpump?

 

[rives]

Once again you have blown me away by perfect answer on my questions.

Thanks alot for all your input, this helped me alot once again.
ICmag should be proud to have such a great spirit with your knowledge.



Do anyone know if a "airpump" with a so called "airstone" makes the resevoir bad or air inside the lines then?
Because i have a circulation pump with a 16mm hose connected with some holes to it that just spread water around inside the resevoir to keep it moving, but its making alot of sound and i Think maybe the air pump make a better job just moving around the water? Because i also need to move the water for my new autoaquasystem PH regulator.

Or is the airstone causing more problems then it helps me should i just continue move it around with waterpump?

Glad I could help!

I would stay far, far away from airstones - entrained air screwed me blind when I was running a self-topping reservoir off of the municipal water system. I run a 2-reservoir system now and use a stir pump in the bottom (large) reservoir, but only kick it on when the lift pump is used.

 

[kollos]

Okey! very good to know, then i drop that idea.

Is stirpump the same as a circulation pump? takes in water in one side and push water out on the other side?

How often is the lift pump going? because im unsure how many times a day / times a week i need to move the water, i have never used my aqua automatic PH system, its new installed.

And my fill up pump only moves 1min every 24H.
And i just guessing i need to move the water around more then 1time a day?
Or do you Think its good enought to move it around 1time/day because the resevoir keeps the same PH anyway and it corrects it when it moves ? Resevoir is 80L

 

[rives]

Yes, stir pump and circulation pump are the same thing.

I kick the pumps on twice a day for 5 minutes each time. The upper reservoir usually tops off in under a minute, and the rest of the time the water just circulates between the two reservoirs. I use V+B, and it is very stable over long periods. Other nutrients may need something different. I wouldn't think that pH would drift very quickly in any case because there is no flow coming back to the rez from the plants.

 

[nastynate420]

Here's a thread with a DIY pressure pump https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=308769.

I'm still interested to see if anybody has the actual pump from sustainable village and if so could they post the part list for this pump kit https://www.sustainablevillage.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_75&product_id=210

Right now I've got this for the tank accumulator
http://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-181-201-Shurflo-Accumulator-Tank/dp/B004KF41CY

this for the pump
http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-8005-233-236-Demand-Pump-1-5gpm/dp/B00571IEF0

this http://www.amazon.com/Watts-Miniature-Plastic-Pressure-Regulator/dp/B009KSLGTM or the sustainable village pressure reducer, I haven't decided

and an $8 pressure gauge off of amazon

And now all I think I need is the inline filter.

The total for all of those parts is $175.

If anybody has the parts list for the actual pump though or pointers on my list they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks y'all.

Also, does anybody know if adding a water chiller would help avoid cyanobacteria/ bacteria in general and would that help with more dissolved oxygen in the water?

 

[Ez Rider]

Here's a thread with a DIY pressure pump https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=308769.

I'm still interested to see if anybody has the actual pump from sustainable village and if so could they post the part list for this pump kit https://www.sustainablevillage.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_75&product_id=210

Right now I've got this for the tank accumulator
http://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-181-201-Shurflo-Accumulator-Tank/dp/B004KF41CY

this for the pump
http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-8005-233-236-Demand-Pump-1-5gpm/dp/B00571IEF0

this http://www.amazon.com/Watts-Miniature-Plastic-Pressure-Regulator/dp/B009KSLGTM or the sustainable village pressure reducer, I haven't decided

and an $8 pressure gauge off of amazon

And now all I think I need is the inline filter.

The total for all of those parts is $175.

If anybody has the parts list for the actual pump though or pointers on my list they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks y'all.

Also, does anybody know if adding a water chiller would help avoid cyanobacteria/ bacteria in general and would that help with more dissolved oxygen in the water?

I'm in the process of building my own system. Just waiting on an accumulator from amazon, 182-200 I believe. I've got a different model shurflo demand pump (45psi, 3.3 gpm), a shurflo inline filter(amazon), and the blumat pressure reducer. Not sure what you need a gauge for. I'm pretty sure the SV kit is using a SHURFLO 4008-171-E65 115V 3GPM Revolution Pump, but I opted for SHURflo Industrial Pump - 198 GPH, 115 Volt, 1/2in., Model# 2088-594-154 because it was half the price. I'm using a 25gal FlexTank for my water. The flex tank is pretty cool. If your accumulator has male threads, get the shurflo 1/2" npt female to 1/2 barb fittings for using braided hose. Same for the pump. There'll be way less vibration(noise) than if you use rigid pipe. Not really sure about the bacteria thing, I just keep topping off my res, and I've never had and problems with it.

 

[jointventure420]

Has anyone found a less expensive alternative to the 3mm tubing that comes with the blumat..? Need several feet of it but not at .30 cents per foot..

Thanks for any help

JV

 

[Sforza]

Several feet at $0.30 per foot would be about a buck and half, wouldn't it? I think that the 3mm tubing and the carrots are two parts of the system that you can't substitute. I think it is because the tubing is very soft and flexible so it reacts well to the slight pressure that the diaphragm in the top of the carrot puts on the hose when the tiny vacuum in the partially depleted carrot is replaced by water infiltrating into the carrot from the damp zone.

If you find another source for 3mm silicone rubber hose for less money, let us know. You could try some other tubing that is 3mm or the English measure close equivalent and try it to see if it works. I bought a big ol' roll of that 3mm tubing when I bought my system, so I think I have a lifetime supply.

I needed to rearrange some plants and in the process, I had a few carrots that I did not need to be working. So I bought 35 of the little caps that close off the 3mm part of the tee that goes into the 8mm line from Sustainable Village.

I saw somewhere in this thread where someone had used the 3mm line and tied a knot in it to cap off an unused tee fitting, but the 3mm line had bulged and either failed or looked like it could fail, so based on that experience, I bought the caps to stopper the unused tee. $0.10 per cap and $5.00 for shipping. The little caps work well.

 

[Ez Rider]

I've got my pressurized system up and running, and so far I'm very happy with it. I'd been using a gravity system for the past year or so, and I can already see that constant 14.5psi on the feed lines is the way to go, especially if you're running more than just a few drippers.

With the gravity system, I'd always have to spend 3-4 days adjusting drippers, before all the runaways and not enough's were dialed in. I'm only able to elevate a res 6' above the plants, so my head pressure was minimal. There was a noticable pressure drop on the main after all the drippers were hooked up, and also between the closest and farthest drippers in the loop.

With the pressurized system, I did the standard "dial to a clinging drip, than back 2 more arrows. About 4 hours later, 1 dripper was mildly running away. I readjusted it to a clinging drip -2, and a day later, the system seems dialed. The pressure is the same(and much higher) at all points in the system now. I had to tighten the adjusters quite a bit more than I'm used to because of the higher pressure. I figure I was running at ~3psi on gravity, so I've upped my pressure by 500%. It definitely seems to work better. The demand pump only kicks on every 10min or so, for under 5 seconds.

Sforza is right about the 3mm caps...they're awesome. They hold very firmly. Even with my pressurized system I have to work at it to get them off the t's. I WOULD NOT recommend knotted 3mm line as a stopper for a pressurized system.

As for buying the 3mm line...the shit lasts forever if you keep it clean...throw the dog a bone a buy a small roll or even a big one. I agree that all the accessories & tubing are grossly overpriced for what it is, but most are still fairly cheap, and purpose made for the blumats.

 

[Jhhnn]

Has anyone found a less expensive alternative to the 3mm tubing that comes with the blumat..? Need several feet of it but not at .30 cents per foot..

Thanks for any help

JV

Their marketing strategy with the kits is to give us enough to see that they work great but that we can make 'em work better. So we buy more stuff to do that, their stuff.

Once you're hooked, resistance is futile.