Blumat auto watering

[rives]

Thanks...that's good to know. What's the strongest you ran in flower?

According to my records, I never got over 1.7EC+/-, but they were still having a pretty substantial mg deficiency and I was supplementing epsom without measuring it at that point - I just kept a mound of it under the Blumat drip point and let it gradually dissolve into the media. Since then I have found that the epsom works fine when added to the nutrients and run through the Blumats. I now routinely add 1.3 grams/gallon of epsom to my nutrient mix all the time (my tap water has virtually no Ca or Mg in it, and this gives a rise of 77ppm.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Thanks...that's good to know. What's the strongest you ran in flower?



My RH is running between 25-40%, depending on the time of day. Winters are pretty dry in my area. I'm still leaning towards believing the low ec is the problem. I've been running 1.4ec for the last few days, hoping for some noticeable improvement soon. On the bright side, I'm not seeing any tip burn. I may bump up the ec to 1.6 based on rives statements.

There is no major difference between the wettest and driest plants. Last run I had 2 pots that were constantly "running away" on me, and those plants never showed any indication of overwater.

25-40 is pretty low RH. Even if RH isn't what is causing your issues, I would still invest in a/another humidifier. As increasing your RH is only going to give you better results. I try to never let mine get below 50% if I can help it.

 

[Ez Rider]

Still not looking so good. Posted this in "Infirmary"(https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6665097#post6665097)...ideas anyone?

 

[rives]

I would suggest that you use the nute calculator in my sig line to see what you are really getting with the PBP and the additives. With RO, you don't need to make any adjustments to the spreadsheet, but if you are using tap you need to get a water analysis and plug in that information too.

It simplified the hell out of things for me once I found out what the plants were actually getting.

 

[Ez Rider]

I would suggest that you use the nute calculator in my sig line to see what you are really getting with the PBP and the additives. With RO, you don't need to make any adjustments to the spreadsheet, but if you are using tap you need to get a water analysis and plug in that information too.

It simplified the hell out of things for me once I found out what the plants were actually getting.

Well that was a bit of work, but if I did it right, I'm in real trouble.

I'm coming up with these #'s /gal

N-91ppm
P-22ppm
K-85ppm
Mg-22ppm
Ca-38ppm
Fe-1ppm
Si-20ppm
This is at 3/4 strength. At full strength, the #'s look like this:

N-127ppm
P-29ppm
K-114ppm
Mg-32ppm
Ca-50ppm
Fe-1.4ppm
Si-20ppm.

I'm confused. Where are all the extra ppm's coming from? @ 3/4 strength, I come up with 279ppm from the calculator, but more like 800ppm by my meter. Am I doing this wrong? I don't think I am, but I'm more confused than ever. I'd need to run my base at 2x regular strength to get into the ballpark.

 

[rives]

Have you checked the calibration on your meter? I've had problems with buildup on mine, but it always makes it read low. Also, are you SURE that it reads the scale that you think it does?

You are using RO at this point, right? It seems like you've used both tap, which had very high readings, and RO. If you are using the tap with a high inbound ppm, you could be getting a high reading but lacking the macro nutrients.

Another thought.... I'm not familiar with your nutrients, but it seems like a while ago you had mentioned that they have some organic component. Organic nutrients apparently don't read correctly on a meter.

 

[Ez Rider]

Have you checked the calibration on your meter? I've had problems with buildup on mine, but it always makes it read low.

You are using RO at this point, right? It seems like you've used both tap, which had very high readings, and RO. If you are using the tap with a high inbound ppm, you could be getting a high reading but lacking the macro nutrients.

Straight RO water, no tap. The profile for using the "grow" as a standalone @20ml/gal(mfg recommended) gives a total ppm value of 461. When mixed with 0ppm RO water, it gives an actual reading of ~1200ppm. It would seem there are a lot of non-food elements floating around in there. Not sure what to do now.

I was going to get the v+b hd, but he kept promising it would be "on the site tomorrow". After a month of this, I got tired of waiting. I just looked, he's got it on the site now...go figure.

So how does the v+b break down on the calculator?

 

[rives]

I was checking that, and I think that you've hit on your problem - there's no food in your food!

Guaranteed Analysis -

V+B -
N-8%
P-5%
K-13%
Mg-2.5%
S-4.5%
Ca-10%

vs.

PBP -
N-2%
P-3%
K-5%
Mg-1%
S-??%
Ca-1%

They both recommend starting with 1 tsp/gln. Huge difference. Do they want you to make up the difference with the supplements? You are using PBP Bloom, correct?

Tell me what your actual feed grams/gallon is and I can tell you what the calculated difference is.

 

[Ez Rider]

I was checking that, and I think that you've hit on your problem - there's no food in your food!

Guaranteed Analysis -

V+B -
N-8%
P-5%
K-13%
Mg-2.5%
S-4.5%
Ca-10%

vs.

PBP -
N-2%
P-3%
K-5%
Mg-1%
S-??%
Ca-1%

They both recommend starting with 1 tsp/gln. Huge difference. Do they want you to make up the difference with the supplements?

Tell me what your actual feed grams/gallon is and I can tell you what the calculated difference is.

I agree...no food.

"Actual feed grams/gal"...not sure what you mean.

Per the "expert soil/coco recipe" by botanicare I come up with 350 ppm's of calculated nutrient value, but I measure ~850ppm on my meter. With those #'s in mind, it would seem that my total ppms would hit +1600 in order to have ~700ppm food value, and it would still be imbalanced...WTF! I'm starting to understand the various defs I saw last run. I started with growbig(6-4-4) by foxfarm, then switched to the PBP grow when I ran out. I only veeged with it briefly under the 1k's the first time, and I did start seeing N defs early in veg. FWIW the PBP grow worked fine under the t-5's.

I'm seriously considering running down some v+b TODAY! We've got basically the same system, outside of nutes. You use the RO formula, no additives, correct?

 

[rives]

I was wondering what the feed rate that you were using was - how many grams of nutrient you are adding per gallon of water. The instructions that I saw for PBP Bloom say 1 teaspoon per gallon.

I use the V+B RO formula with 1ml of Drip Clean, 3ml of SM90, and usually 1.3 grams of epsom per gallon of water.

 

[Ez Rider]

I was wondering what the feed rate that you were using was - how many grams of nutrient you are adding per gallon of water. The instructions that I saw for PBP Bloom say 1 teaspoon per gallon.

I use the V+B RO formula with 1ml of Drip Clean, 3ml of SM90, and usually 1.3 grams of epsom per gallon of water.

I'm using the base at ~9ml/gal plus the additives...which don't add much(except calmag plus). By the calculator, the calmag+ comes out to ~90ppm. My meter measures 250ppm when 5ml is added to 0ppm RO. Not sure what the other stuff measured is. You think I should use the calculator to get my FOOD ppms where I need, and screw the actual readings? Or just get a better balanced food source? On that note: you seem to think that Mg is the only food supplement needed, correct?

 

[Ez Rider]

Here is the chart I'm using:http:///www.botanicare.com/Assets/PDFs/PBProFeedSheet2014.pdf

 

[rives]

I'm using the base at ~9ml/gal plus the additives...which don't add much(except calmag plus). By the calculator, the calmag+ comes out to ~90ppm. My meter measures 250ppm when 5ml is added to 0ppm RO. Not sure what the other stuff measured is. You think I should use the calculator to get my FOOD ppms where I need, and screw the actual readings? Or just get a better balanced food source? On that note: you seem to think that Mg is the only food supplement needed, correct?

I get 140ppm on the .5 scale per gram of V+B with my tap, which is pretty close to RO.

I think that I would make up a batch of nutrient per the calculator and get the N & K levels up to around 150-180 or so. That should still be pretty conservative, especially for Sour Bubble. You can then water the plants directly with that - the Blumats will just turn off when they sense the higher moisture levels. Keep a very close eye out for tip burn and back off if things start to get ugly, but from the looks of the plants I don't think that will happen and you can probably go up a bit from there with 1kw lighting.

If it was me, I would get some V+B on the way. They ship very quickly and you should probably have it by Wednesday if you are on the West Coast.

I have a couple of strains that are pretty Mg hungry, and have found that keeping the Mg levels at a minimum of 60 and up to about 80 works best for them and doesn't seem to bother any of the others. There is virtually no Mg in my tap (1.1ppm), so particularly at the lower feed levels it needs to be supplemented a little. That calculator is a damn handy tool once you get comfortable with it.

 

[Ez Rider]

I get 140ppm on the .5 scale per gram of V+B with my tap, which is pretty close to RO.

I think that I would make up a batch of nutrient per the calculator and get the N & K levels up to around 150-180 or so. That should still be pretty conservative, especially for Sour Bubble. You can then water the plants directly with that - the Blumats will just turn off when they sense the higher moisture levels. Keep a very close eye out for tip burn and back off if things start to get ugly, but from the looks of the plants I don't think that will happen and you can probably go up a bit from there with 1kw lighting.

If it was me, I would get some V+B on the way. They ship very quickly and you should probably have it by Wednesday if you are on the West Coast.

I have a couple of strains that are pretty Mg hungry, and have found that keeping the Mg levels at a minimum of 60 and up to about 80 works best for them and doesn't seem to bother any of the others. There is virtually no Mg in my tap (1.1ppm), so particularly at the lower feed levels it needs to be supplemented a little. That calculator is a damn handy tool once you get comfortable with it.

I'm mixing up some 20ml/gal grow, and adding 5ml/gal calmag. This should get me in range. We'll see what happens. Ppm's are ~1250..,screw it. Gonna order the hd in a bit, get me some samples of the size and life too. I'm thinking at least 5lbs for my size grow.

Do the sm90 or dripclean add to the ppm's? Seeing as there is no runoff, what's the point of the dripclean?

Just regular drugstore epsom salt?

Thanks for your help

 

[rives]

The SM90 doesn't add anything measurable, but it is kind of scummy.

The DC adds about 35ppm. It is supposed to keep everything soluble, and keep the salts from building up and creating a lockout condition.

Yes, I just use the commonly available epsom (Mg sulfate). Just make sure you don't get any that is scented or something.

 

[Ez Rider]

FWIW here's what the calculator says about 20ml base + 5ml calmag per gallon. N=186 P=46 K=176 Mg=43 Ca=97. Opinions?

 

[rives]

Sounds like a pretty good place to start. At peak feed rates, I hit around N = 137, P = 59, K = 200, Ca = 220. My light is considerably less intense, though.

I don't know if you noticed it, but on the opening page for the calculator, they have some recommended nutrient levels at different stages of development.

 

[Dave Coulier]

Ez Rider, it appears there is no Sulfur being provided by your nutrients. Did this yellowing begin from bottom up, or top down, or generally just developed across the whole plant? That first pic in your recent infirmary thread screams Sulfur deficiency to me as your whole plant appears chlorotic. Red/purple petioles & veins also points to it being S.

 

[rives]

Ez Rider, it appears there is no Sulfur being provided by your nutrients. Did this yellowing begin from bottom up, or top down, or generally just developed across the whole plant? That first pic in your recent infirmary thread screams Sulfur deficiency to me as your whole plant appears chlorotic. Red/purple petioles & veins also points to it being S.

Yep, there may be "some" but perhaps its variable, maybe it's too low ot measure, or for whatever reason it's lumped in with the micro nutrients that didn't make it to the guaranteed analysis.

I suspect that Sour Bubble may like higher levels of sulfur because I've had it show that deficiency in the past. That will also be aided by the addition of epsom.

 

[Ez Rider]

Ez Rider, it appears there is no Sulfur being provided by your nutrients. Did this yellowing begin from bottom up, or top down, or generally just developed across the whole plant? That first pic in your recent infirmary thread screams Sulfur deficiency to me as your whole plant appears chlorotic. Red/purple petioles & veins also points to it being S.

Like rives says...I think it's there, just not in the analysis. The chlorosis seemed to affect the whole plant, all at once.

Yep, there may be "some" but perhaps its variable, maybe it's too low ot measure, or for whatever reason it's lumped in with the micro nutrients that didn't make it to the guaranteed analysis.

I suspect that Sour Bubble may like higher levels of sulfur because I've had it show that deficiency in the past. That will also be aided by the addition of epsom.

I'm at 43ppm Mg according to the calculator. How much epsom/gal do you think I should add?