Hey chap - forgot to mention you should both screen and rinse properly. Not screening is a mistake, your AFP is way way too low for optimal root growth. In ppk you grow roots, not leaves and stems....
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Blah's First Ppk
- Thread starter Mr Blah
- Start date
Hey chap - forgot to mention you should both screen and rinse properly. Not screening is a mistake, your AFP is way way too low for optimal root growth. In ppk you grow roots, not leaves and stems....
McKush; I used the larger perlite curds and yes I didn't screen the Turface but from what I gathered from D9...he doesn't either.
I am trying to make this as practical as possible and more productive.
How can you tell it is too low? I think it is drying out the top 1/2" a bit faster on some because of a fan near by.
I am trying to make this as practical as possible and more productive.
How can you tell it is too low? I think it is drying out the top 1/2" a bit faster on some because of a fan near by.
how do your plants look? i am always playing around with irrigation timing trying to find the sweet spot.
i have since gone to 36 oz's every 20 minutes but i've just got a veg room with small plants going right now and the medium is not fully occupied by roots.
it takes about 10 minutes for the system to equalize levels after each pulse so that gives about 10 at rest.
i'm doing all this experimentally to see the effect on growth rate.
i'm sure in flower it will have to be cut back even further.
it's normal to have a dry crust on top as long as when you scoop out a handful from about an inch down you see visible wetness. by that i mean glistening in the light with water.
air spaces all drained and open and yet each particle coated with water and nutrients.
you won't see this with coco just hard subtrates.
well it definitely could and probably should be recleaned and reused but i don't have the space to either store it or process it right now so it's going to be tossed.
cleaning doesn't scale up well when labor costs are factored.
and both of these substances have just been sterilized by high heat processing and are bug free right out of the bag.
we are cutting the turface, which has about 22% afp before screening, with the chunky perlite, which is about 50%. used 50/50 by volume this combination has about 38% afp.
straight turface must be screened for sure!
Thanks D.
The growth is a lot faster now that I have the correct chunky perlite in the tailpipe and equally mixed with the un-screened Turface.
Before it was a wet mess of undersized perlite and Turface mixture. Where the roots sat in that very wet mixture and went down the tail pipe into the water.
While I got you here D. where is a good cheap place to get 3.5 gal buckets? USPlastics or Uline?
Starting to build downstairs. Even though I would love to use the 7gal feed pans I wont be able to fit all 8 of them in veg room. So it will have to be 3.5 gal bucket on top of another 3.5.
The growth is a lot faster now that I have the correct chunky perlite in the tailpipe and equally mixed with the un-screened Turface.
Before it was a wet mess of undersized perlite and Turface mixture. Where the roots sat in that very wet mixture and went down the tail pipe into the water.
While I got you here D. where is a good cheap place to get 3.5 gal buckets? USPlastics or Uline?
Starting to build downstairs. Even though I would love to use the 7gal feed pans I wont be able to fit all 8 of them in veg room. So it will have to be 3.5 gal bucket on top of another 3.5.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Argee-3-5-gal-Black-Pail-10-Pack-RG503Blk-10/203790000
i get mine here. shipping is free to the store
i get mine here. shipping is free to the store
Also what are your recommendations for vegging lighting?
I currently have 2 HPS 600's over 18 5 gal buckets butt up together.
Do you think I should just add more HPS lighting or? What are your thoughts on LED's and vegging PPK plants?
Sorry, it's Saturday question night
it's really hard to say in terms of watts and fixtures but 1000-1200 umols applied evenly over most of the plant is a good flow rate.
Coola, sorry man i forget....
Snook
Still Learning
chewing more COBs should help with your memory, no?
I am wondering if there is any scientific theory behind the positioning of the hose? Can I just go out of the control bucket threw one bucket to the next and so forth to create a loop back around? Or does it have to be in series; circle with "t's" off to each site?
I am trying to lay out the best (for me) bucket placement for my downstairs 12 bucket vegging room.
Also wondering just how big does the control bucket have to be? I see that The big black tuff totes with the yellow tops have a 17gal and 6 gal with the same 12.5" height.
Thinking of getting the 6 gal but not sure....Running the huge undercurrents it was always good to get the equivalent gal control bucket which should be the same amount as all the sites combined.
I am trying to lay out the best (for me) bucket placement for my downstairs 12 bucket vegging room.
Also wondering just how big does the control bucket have to be? I see that The big black tuff totes with the yellow tops have a 17gal and 6 gal with the same 12.5" height.
Thinking of getting the 6 gal but not sure....Running the huge undercurrents it was always good to get the equivalent gal control bucket which should be the same amount as all the sites combined.
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Snook
Still Learning
the control bucket has to be only big enough to include the float valve and only be tall enough to accommodate your representation of the water level in the bottom ppk rez. I use the 25 gallon black tub for the pump rez not for its height but for its width.. with a similar sized pulse rez there wouldn't be enough water to pulse 1.5 gallon of water (the pulse) for all 6 plants if I used a 4 gallon pump rez (<the size of my ppk bottom rez) that was the same dimension as the ppk rez (4 gallons) set to a 3/5"-4" GAP which will only be 1.25 gallons so 'wider' not taller.
Good point Snook...I forgot about needing enough water to pulse.
I was thinking more so on using less for this set up.
So I should figure it out as 1 quart (30sec) feeding every 90 mins (or amount whichever I choice) multiplied by 12 (sites) = 12 quarts + the amount of water needed to keep a 4" air gap.
needed at least for the pump not to run dry while pulsing.
I am figuring about 2.5gals of liquid in each 3.5gal bucket site with an air gap of 4". (roughly)
I am using the 1/2" black rubber hose between each bucket and do not know how much liquid will be in there....I will factor about 1 gal.
(2.5x12)=30+1= 31gal total - half the system; I need at least a 15 gal control bucket with the ability to pulse 3gals at a time.
IF my calculations are right than I could use a small 6gal tote....but I think I am going for the 18gal tote for being safe and the ability to change time on the pulse feed.
I was thinking more so on using less for this set up. So I should figure it out as 1 quart (30sec) feeding every 90 mins (or amount whichever I choice) multiplied by 12 (sites) = 12 quarts + the amount of water needed to keep a 4" air gap.
needed at least for the pump not to run dry while pulsing.
I am figuring about 2.5gals of liquid in each 3.5gal bucket site with an air gap of 4". (roughly)
I am using the 1/2" black rubber hose between each bucket and do not know how much liquid will be in there....I will factor about 1 gal.
(2.5x12)=30+1= 31gal total - half the system; I need at least a 15 gal control bucket with the ability to pulse 3gals at a time.
IF my calculations are right than I could use a small 6gal tote....but I think I am going for the 18gal tote for being safe and the ability to change time on the pulse feed.
Good point Snook...I forgot about needing enough water to pulse.
So I should figure it out as 1 quart (30sec) feeding every 90 mins (or amount whichever I choice) multiplied by 12 (sites) = 12 quarts + the amount of water needed to keep a 4" air gap.
needed at least for the pump not to run dry while pulsing.
I am figuring about 2.5gals of liquid in each 3.5gal bucket site with an air gap of 4". (roughly)
I am using the 1/2" black rubber hose between each bucket and do not know how much liquid will be in there....I will factor about 1 gal.
(2.5x12)=30+1= 31gal total - half the system; I need at least a 15 gal control bucket with the ability to pulse 3gals at a time.
IF my calculations are right than I could use a small 6gal tote....but I think I am going for the 18gal tote for being safe and the ability to change time on the pulse feed.
running the hose through the buckets one after another in a chain is not a good idea because in order to equalize readings in all the buckets you will have to create a small continuous flow of solution through them.
i have tried this and it's a bitch to get just right. we used a single 185 eco pump running 24/7 to create current for 12 flowering plants which worked ok but had to install valves on each row of containers to slow the flow even further in order to maintain equal water levels and therefore air gap.
if you don't circulate you will get substantially different readings throughout the system.
look at the plumbing in my new thread. it works really well with equal readings and great solution stability.
i loaded the system on dec 4 and it's been running at 780-800 ppm at .5 with 5.8-5.9 ph ever since. that's about 7 weeks.
Thank you D.
Not that I am doubting your knowledge but I still trying to grasp this; What you have in your new system is a 1/2" trunk line that has "T's" at every site (all the same size). Why is it that you do not need any flow with that set up?
I plan on doing what ever you say anyway.
Not trying to change anything just getting inside your head.This is the set up for my veg room downstairs which is a different set up as upstairs. The only big difference is the use of a perimeter trunk line vs a center one (seen on the first few pages of this thread) This one would be a closed loop for the connection to the sites.
The green line is the feed line open loop. THoughts?
The size pump will probably be 900-1200gph. I would love to do a 185gph pump for each site but the (4.5'x9.75') room wont allow more stuff on the floor. I wanted something that I could just freely walk around and taking and dropping off new sites.
I did think about having 3 different smaller pumps handling 4 sites each.
The green line is the feed line open loop. THoughts?
The size pump will probably be 900-1200gph. I would love to do a 185gph pump for each site but the (4.5'x9.75') room wont allow more stuff on the floor. I wanted something that I could just freely walk around and taking and dropping off new sites.
I did think about having 3 different smaller pumps handling 4 sites each.
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the big difference is that i'm using a bunch of small pumps instead of one big one. you see that my system uses 2 buckets per plant. the pumps all fire simultaneously and evacuate 36 oz's from each pump bucket and throws it over into the plant container.
so the pump buckets can only be replenished from the reservoir. the plant containers can only return to the reservoir. there are no connections between pump buckets and plant containers except the halo and the reservoir.
so immediately after the pumps fire the pump buckets are all 36 oz's low and the plant containers are all 36 oz's too high.
gravity makes them all equalize through the reservoir. creating circulation that is linear in form with positive displacement. equal readings.
your drawing as you show it is correct for 1 larger pump. you pump a load of solution into the plant container, it drains through and enters the return line independently of other buckets. this will keep the solution more even from container to container than daisy chaining the containers.
i hope this makes sense.
so the pump buckets can only be replenished from the reservoir. the plant containers can only return to the reservoir. there are no connections between pump buckets and plant containers except the halo and the reservoir.
so immediately after the pumps fire the pump buckets are all 36 oz's low and the plant containers are all 36 oz's too high.
gravity makes them all equalize through the reservoir. creating circulation that is linear in form with positive displacement. equal readings.
your drawing as you show it is correct for 1 larger pump. you pump a load of solution into the plant container, it drains through and enters the return line independently of other buckets. this will keep the solution more even from container to container than daisy chaining the containers.
i hope this makes sense.
i want to add that your drawing is probably the best way to do it in a small or tight space. what i'm doing scales up easily for large rooms.
Thank you D, it does make sense.
Basically didn't want to do it one way and post pictures only for the seasoned PPKers to tell me that I did all wrong.
The veg room is not a tent but is small like one. So getting in there for maintenance and transferring plants in and out was a huge deal in design. I have seen your grow pictures and av8or's as well. Unfortunately I do not have large open spaces to put two buckets pr site for my vegging.
I will have enough space for flowering downstairs and will take your advice on the two bucket set up pr/site. Pictures will follow that rebuild in about a month.
Basically didn't want to do it one way and post pictures only for the seasoned PPKers to tell me that I did all wrong.
The veg room is not a tent but is small like one. So getting in there for maintenance and transferring plants in and out was a huge deal in design. I have seen your grow pictures and av8or's as well. Unfortunately I do not have large open spaces to put two buckets pr site for my vegging.
I will have enough space for flowering downstairs and will take your advice on the two bucket set up pr/site. Pictures will follow that rebuild in about a month.
