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BigTokes ~ "How-To" Of The Bio-Buckets 101
- Thread starter BigToke
- Start date
N
Neptune
Alright, fair enough.. sorry to drag you into a debate 
I've read a little more, and have some questions!
What kind of jesus-style pump are you employing? to run 36 buckets at elevation takes some serious pressure... wow.
Also, you say that pump is running 24/7, how much power does it consume, and has/dose it ever fail? Seems like continuous duty would wear it down pretty quick(???).
Do you ever have to clean down your system? I see a lot of build up on some of your parts, and I get a lot of build up too (probably salts, dried). I generally dissassemble my enitre system and scrub it down with a light bleach solution between grows, its a pita, and may not be necessary... its more for asthetics than anything i suppose. Just wondering what your cleaning practices are..?
I've read a little more, and have some questions!
What kind of jesus-style pump are you employing? to run 36 buckets at elevation takes some serious pressure... wow.
Also, you say that pump is running 24/7, how much power does it consume, and has/dose it ever fail? Seems like continuous duty would wear it down pretty quick(???).
Do you ever have to clean down your system? I see a lot of build up on some of your parts, and I get a lot of build up too (probably salts, dried). I generally dissassemble my enitre system and scrub it down with a light bleach solution between grows, its a pita, and may not be necessary... its more for asthetics than anything i suppose. Just wondering what your cleaning practices are..?
………………….the thread your in covers (pump, elevation, and pressure) do some more reading!!................the power that my pump consumes is relevant, look at the yield!!! That covers EVERYTHING!!!................I don’t know what your looking at but the build up in my system is very little………………….clean-up time is very simple, just drain system refill with fresh tap-water and put 3 bottles of H2O2 in it, let run for 24 hours drain and your done…..it’s that simple………I take nothing apart……..I wash nothing.
It's all about O2
It's all about O2
It all comes down to: If all else is equal he with the most DO (dissolved O2) grows the healthiest plants. O2 transfer takes place at the surface. Aerating disturbs the surface allowing O2 transfer. Circulating does the same thing. A water fall has a very large "continuous" surface area. So if you have a recirculating, aerated system with waterfall you are maximising the surface area for O2 transfer to take place. I have such a system and have had success with weekly res changes and equal success with a res change only at the switch from veg to flower. Something I have not understood is with this system is. If nute ppm goes over 700 plants get burned and ph is a pita to control. It dives daily. Keeping the ppm down results in stable ph. Plants are extremly healthy and show no ill signs even at 400 ppm at week 12. I am only guessing that the closer one comes to max DO the more efficient nutrient uptake becomes? Keep in mind all else must be within specs. Water temp at 68 degrees, Air temp 75, RH at 50%, Ventalation and correct lighting. And you must take into account the strain requirements.
It's all about O2
It all comes down to: If all else is equal he with the most DO (dissolved O2) grows the healthiest plants. O2 transfer takes place at the surface. Aerating disturbs the surface allowing O2 transfer. Circulating does the same thing. A water fall has a very large "continuous" surface area. So if you have a recirculating, aerated system with waterfall you are maximising the surface area for O2 transfer to take place. I have such a system and have had success with weekly res changes and equal success with a res change only at the switch from veg to flower. Something I have not understood is with this system is. If nute ppm goes over 700 plants get burned and ph is a pita to control. It dives daily. Keeping the ppm down results in stable ph. Plants are extremly healthy and show no ill signs even at 400 ppm at week 12. I am only guessing that the closer one comes to max DO the more efficient nutrient uptake becomes? Keep in mind all else must be within specs. Water temp at 68 degrees, Air temp 75, RH at 50%, Ventalation and correct lighting. And you must take into account the strain requirements.
daltron
Member
Hello Big Toke
Hello Big Toke
Hello BT,
god I'm so glad to be back it has been almost a year now, a word to the wise, don't lose your health, for truly without your health you have nothing..........
Anyway still running the bio-system and loving it..... I too was cleaning my system your way, but guess what I just went 2 entire grows, including veg to flower without changing out the resivor...... using the Prue Blend grow and flower [organic, not the Pro mix] I always go from veg to flower without a change out..... this last time when I finished the grow my ppm's were down to 185, my tap water is 140........ it looked so clean and smelled so fresh that I decided to try another grow without a cleaning or res change out..... take a look at some of the results:
SnowWhite side view harvest day 44:
and a close up:
I found Snow White and Bog's Bubblegum have the same nute requirements so Bogglegum was my second strain for this grow....have a look:
and a closer look see:
For a year now I've been growing trouble free thanks to this system, life is so much easier now that I don't have to waste money or time troubleshooting sick plants..... before this system I had a closet full of nute's, enhancers, silicon, magnesium and well you all know what I mean , I'm sure you all still have the same stuff......now I buy only the a grow nute and bloom nute and nothing else saving me a ton of money. The living Beneficial Bacteria gets all that it needs from the grow and bloom nute's to produce healthy trouble free plants..... another couple of grows and the savings in nute cost alone will pay for my whole Bio system
I see medman is pushing you for a answer to what makes it a Bio bucket.... the question should be not bio-bucket but rather what makes it a bio system, for this method can be converted and used in several types of growing.... I would say that a bio system provides an environment that allows the Beneficial bacteria to propagate..... with their short life span, only by reproducing in large numbers, quickly, can they continue to be of use to the plants; as they expand in size. This makes it a living symbiotic bio system......
Your biobuckets provide a good environment for the BB's to reproduce..... it should be noted that Beneficial Bacteria require very high levels of oxygen, cool temps and a current { for movement of the BB's}
Hence the need for max DO. My waterfall provides a constant 11 to 13 ppm at 68* f with 13 ppm at 68* f being max dissolved oxygen possible.......Whereas molds, fungus and bad forms of bacteria require just the opposite: warm temps, low amounts of oxygen and stagnant conditions...... just by providing the proper living conditions for the good bacteria, denies a home to the bad bacteria...
The true payoff from a living bio system is the BB's providing for all of the needs of the plant with the proper nute at the proper time, in the proper amounts in a form most easily absorbed by the plant.....the plant in return supplies a healthy root zone for the BB's to thrive in..... all we have done is to supply food and a home for the BB's.
I hope this answers your questions in regards to what makes a bio system. If not be kind and start your own thread where we can discuss this instead of hijacking this thread, { thx}
so what is an easy way to see if you have a working bio system? A symbiotic relationship will exist between plant and Beneficial bacteria {BB's} on a nutritional and environmental level....in short you will have a healthy happy, well fed plant without having to add any other supplements or enhancers other than your regular grow and bloom nute's. The Beneficial Bacteria {BB's} will take from the nute solution and give to the root system all of the nute's that the plant requires in a form most easily used by the plants. The payoff looks like:
anyway just stopped by to say hello and once again say thanks for taking your time and effort to bring this info to people like me...... my illness is so severe that I would have had to stop growing this past year, if it were not for the simplicity of this system.....daltron
PS sorry almost forgot.... yes I never have a need to run my ppm above 500 ppm even for the most agressive feeder...average 400 ppm's for the grow...... over feeding the BB's tends to burn them out...... first sign of this shows up as unstable pH....their population is declineing and can no longer control the pH.....solution cut back on the ppm's and give them time to repopulate ...... I always use my stable pH as a guide to when I have reached my max ppm for flowering
Hello Big Toke
Hello BT,
god I'm so glad to be back it has been almost a year now, a word to the wise, don't lose your health, for truly without your health you have nothing..........Anyway still running the bio-system and loving it..... I too was cleaning my system your way, but guess what I just went 2 entire grows, including veg to flower without changing out the resivor...... using the Prue Blend grow and flower [organic, not the Pro mix] I always go from veg to flower without a change out..... this last time when I finished the grow my ppm's were down to 185, my tap water is 140........ it looked so clean and smelled so fresh that I decided to try another grow without a cleaning or res change out..... take a look at some of the results:
SnowWhite side view harvest day 44:
and a close up: 
I found Snow White and Bog's Bubblegum have the same nute requirements so Bogglegum was my second strain for this grow....have a look:
and a closer look see: 
For a year now I've been growing trouble free thanks to this system, life is so much easier now that I don't have to waste money or time troubleshooting sick plants..... before this system I had a closet full of nute's, enhancers, silicon, magnesium and well you all know what I mean , I'm sure you all still have the same stuff......now I buy only the a grow nute and bloom nute and nothing else saving me a ton of money. The living Beneficial Bacteria gets all that it needs from the grow and bloom nute's to produce healthy trouble free plants..... another couple of grows and the savings in nute cost alone will pay for my whole Bio system
I see medman is pushing you for a answer to what makes it a Bio bucket.... the question should be not bio-bucket but rather what makes it a bio system, for this method can be converted and used in several types of growing.... I would say that a bio system provides an environment that allows the Beneficial bacteria to propagate..... with their short life span, only by reproducing in large numbers, quickly, can they continue to be of use to the plants; as they expand in size. This makes it a living symbiotic bio system......
Your biobuckets provide a good environment for the BB's to reproduce..... it should be noted that Beneficial Bacteria require very high levels of oxygen, cool temps and a current { for movement of the BB's}
Hence the need for max DO. My waterfall provides a constant 11 to 13 ppm at 68* f with 13 ppm at 68* f being max dissolved oxygen possible.......Whereas molds, fungus and bad forms of bacteria require just the opposite: warm temps, low amounts of oxygen and stagnant conditions...... just by providing the proper living conditions for the good bacteria, denies a home to the bad bacteria...
The true payoff from a living bio system is the BB's providing for all of the needs of the plant with the proper nute at the proper time, in the proper amounts in a form most easily absorbed by the plant.....the plant in return supplies a healthy root zone for the BB's to thrive in..... all we have done is to supply food and a home for the BB's.
I hope this answers your questions in regards to what makes a bio system. If not be kind and start your own thread where we can discuss this instead of hijacking this thread, { thx}
so what is an easy way to see if you have a working bio system? A symbiotic relationship will exist between plant and Beneficial bacteria {BB's} on a nutritional and environmental level....in short you will have a healthy happy, well fed plant without having to add any other supplements or enhancers other than your regular grow and bloom nute's. The Beneficial Bacteria {BB's} will take from the nute solution and give to the root system all of the nute's that the plant requires in a form most easily used by the plants. The payoff looks like:
anyway just stopped by to say hello and once again say thanks for taking your time and effort to bring this info to people like me...... my illness is so severe that I would have had to stop growing this past year, if it were not for the simplicity of this system.....daltron
PS sorry almost forgot.... yes I never have a need to run my ppm above 500 ppm even for the most agressive feeder...average 400 ppm's for the grow...... over feeding the BB's tends to burn them out...... first sign of this shows up as unstable pH....their population is declineing and can no longer control the pH.....solution cut back on the ppm's and give them time to repopulate ...... I always use my stable pH as a guide to when I have reached my max ppm for flowering
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BigToke I apologise if I "hijacked your thread" as Daltron has suggested I meant only to point out the importance of dissolved O2 and how its gets there. Daltron perhaps you have me confused with someone else? "I see medman is pushing you for a answer to what makes it a Bio bucket" ? Wasn't my question... But you did shed some light on my ph question. Thank you
Haya daltron its very good to see you old friend, I am truly happy that your doing some what better now that is great new!! It’s also great to see you here at IC I hope yea stick around, it’s been some time but I understood seeing how that you had your hands full over at HC with that killer Bio-Grow grow you did that was answer dude nice pic’s and great info…………….I have also went several grows start to Finnish without every doing a change-out or a cleaning but to keep it simple for the first timers until they understand just what this system can do I like to just give them basic rule of thumps to go by until they get more advents at it.
I couldn’t agree more, the money that growers could save is staggering!! But you know what, I’ve come to understand that some growers just like to waste there money on shit that doesn’t work but you cant tell them they just have to learn it on there own for some reason?
………………….yea I try to answer all the Q’s that I can but when I feel that some growers need to just read a little more I let’m be for a while……………..
if I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times but some folks just don’t seem to get it, the BB’s will almost double your nutrients efficiency in the delivery process.
I couldn’t agree more, the money that growers could save is staggering!! But you know what, I’ve come to understand that some growers just like to waste there money on shit that doesn’t work but you cant tell them they just have to learn it on there own for some reason?
………………….yea I try to answer all the Q’s that I can but when I feel that some growers need to just read a little more I let’m be for a while……………..
if I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times but some folks just don’t seem to get it, the BB’s will almost double your nutrients efficiency in the delivery process.
daltron
Member
Hello BT thanks it is great to be back and I plan on sticking around just as long as my health holds out..... my new years resolution is to prove my doctors wrong and still be alive come January 2007, even though I'm in remission now, the damage done to my chest makes it tough to remain in a upright sitting postion for very long, so my time spent reading and posting is less than one hour per day..... so I do plan on spending most of that time here
U R right I don't know what that reason is..... I blame it on advertising doing such a great job of brainwashing people into thinking that they gotta have it...as with most things in life.......But I say again.... I love the fact the my nute storage closet has only 2 bottles in it, one for the grow and one for the bloom nutes and that is it !!!
and enjoy bigger, better tasteing buds now than I ever did before......
thanks it is great to be back and I plan on sticking around just as long as my health holds out..... my new years resolution is to prove my doctors wrong and still be alive come January 2007, even though I'm in remission now, the damage done to my chest makes it tough to remain in a upright sitting postion for very long, so my time spent reading and posting is less than one hour per day..... so I do plan on spending most of that time here BigToke said:
U R right I don't know what that reason is..... I blame it on advertising doing such a great job of brainwashing people into thinking that they gotta have it...as with most things in life.......But I say again.... I love the fact the my nute storage closet has only 2 bottles in it, one for the grow and one for the bloom nutes and that is it !!!
Man you've got that right..... when I was running the DWC system I always tried to max out my nutes at a 1000 ppm's or more..... now that is just not needed.... I average 400 to 450 ppm's / growBigToke said:
and enjoy bigger, better tasteing buds now than I ever did before......
Hummm…….so you plan on sticking around, that’s good news to my ears ~ I hope that you prove them all wrong………….well that’s pretty humbling to know that when you have a little time you spend it with us.
Haya D, I hope all that great info you wrote-up on HC didn’t get lost and if it didn’t maybe IF you feel like it you could make a thread and repost it here at IC……man that would be GREAT!! If but for nothing else but for posterity sack, that is just to much good info to let go to waste there’s not to many growers that has come up modifications to the Bio-Buckets that I agreed with but you have took the Bio-System and made it yours that’s for sure, I usually don’t agree with the “so-called” improvements that most growers do to there Bio-Buckets but from what I could remember I couldn’t find one thing that I disagreed with the changes that you made to your Bio-System; that was one hell of a job you did on that thing………….I mine, that was one sweet grow you did over at HC and I believe folks could lean a lot from the things you did…………well it’s just a thought.
Well old friend even if your not up to it I understand and you are most certainly welcome here and I’ll be glade to chat with ya anytime…………….If you do decide you can I’ll see to it that it gets put to good use and that your dream-system gets shared with as many folks as possible.
Haya D, I hope all that great info you wrote-up on HC didn’t get lost and if it didn’t maybe IF you feel like it you could make a thread and repost it here at IC……man that would be GREAT!! If but for nothing else but for posterity sack, that is just to much good info to let go to waste there’s not to many growers that has come up modifications to the Bio-Buckets that I agreed with but you have took the Bio-System and made it yours that’s for sure, I usually don’t agree with the “so-called” improvements that most growers do to there Bio-Buckets but from what I could remember I couldn’t find one thing that I disagreed with the changes that you made to your Bio-System; that was one hell of a job you did on that thing………….I mine, that was one sweet grow you did over at HC and I believe folks could lean a lot from the things you did…………well it’s just a thought.
Well old friend even if your not up to it I understand and you are most certainly welcome here and I’ll be glade to chat with ya anytime…………….If you do decide you can I’ll see to it that it gets put to good use and that your dream-system gets shared with as many folks as possible.
gregor_mendel
Active member
Greetings BT and others!
I have run bio buckets per hurtback directions one time, then switched to KBS. No slam on KBS, but for me personally, it was a mistake. My best yield ever was from the bio buckets with a low yeilding cultivar.
Props to you BT for spending so much time building this thread.
Question:
Has anyone used floranova in bio-buckets? I searched that several ways and got nothing. Yes, it is a mineral salt nutrient, but has 3% humic acids. This concerns me in a bio bucket.
Another:
BT says do not use Lucas formula, as it is too high in phosphorous. The 5-10-15 flower formula on the GH bottle gives 106ppm phosphorous. Lucas formula gives 106ppm phosphorous. Perhaps I misunderstand, and BT uses other than the GH bottle directions.
Any anwers are appreciated, and thanks again to Big Toke for this thread.
GM
I have run bio buckets per hurtback directions one time, then switched to KBS. No slam on KBS, but for me personally, it was a mistake. My best yield ever was from the bio buckets with a low yeilding cultivar.
Props to you BT for spending so much time building this thread.
Question:
Has anyone used floranova in bio-buckets? I searched that several ways and got nothing. Yes, it is a mineral salt nutrient, but has 3% humic acids. This concerns me in a bio bucket.
Another:
BT says do not use Lucas formula, as it is too high in phosphorous. The 5-10-15 flower formula on the GH bottle gives 106ppm phosphorous. Lucas formula gives 106ppm phosphorous. Perhaps I misunderstand, and BT uses other than the GH bottle directions.
Any anwers are appreciated, and thanks again to Big Toke for this thread.
GM
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G.M ~ sorry about your luck with the KBS: you know way back when Gorilla Seeds website was up they gave Krusty special section on that site and gave him moderator status over it, (much like we do here with our “Seed Vendors”) it was something like commercial grows………….anyway, me and Krusty talked about a lot of things but never had a hard word with each other……go figure.. ~ I just thing he was a lot like myself and didn’t like answering questions about thing that he has already talked about a thousand times, over and over and over………….to make it sort, if you consider yourself as good of a grower as Krusty then I’m sure you wouldn’t have a problem with his system……..I personally don’t grow in that style but have thought about it more then a few times myself, but I backed away from it because of more reasons then I care to talk about.
…………….I am not sure if anyone has tried floranova in the Bio-Buckets or not and as far as the Lucas Formula I have already spoken soooo much on this, that I don’t care to talk about it anymore!! Most grower are going to do whatever the hell they want to anyways, but if you want to be RIGHT then do as I have done.
Brooklyn ~ yes, there is a simple answer to this and it is don’t go mediumless!! if your looking to take advantage of the Beneficial Bacterium the lava rock needs (MUST) be at the top or surface of braking water.
…………….I am not sure if anyone has tried floranova in the Bio-Buckets or not and as far as the Lucas Formula I have already spoken soooo much on this, that I don’t care to talk about it anymore!! Most grower are going to do whatever the hell they want to anyways, but if you want to be RIGHT then do as I have done.
Brooklyn ~ yes, there is a simple answer to this and it is don’t go mediumless!! if your looking to take advantage of the Beneficial Bacterium the lava rock needs (MUST) be at the top or surface of braking water.
gregor_mendel
Active member
Thanks for the response, BT.
I don't knock KFB, in fact I think it great, and I don't blame it for my shortcomings, but while I was having them, I wondered why I didn't just stick with bio buckets.
I understand you point about both you and Krusty:
How to threads are for how to questions, not why not, or show me the science questions. If I am unable to locate your discussions on the nutrient question, I will start a thread on the matter.
Let me take this opportunity to say nice work on the many mods you made to this system that have become standard in the community. When I ran this, I was constantly thinking that although the line in line system that hurback did was visually elegant, the engineering was bad.
Anyway, I bought several pounds of fittings at the irrigation shop recently. Ready to get back to the bio!
GM
I don't knock KFB, in fact I think it great, and I don't blame it for my shortcomings, but while I was having them, I wondered why I didn't just stick with bio buckets.
I understand you point about both you and Krusty:
How to threads are for how to questions, not why not, or show me the science questions. If I am unable to locate your discussions on the nutrient question, I will start a thread on the matter.
Let me take this opportunity to say nice work on the many mods you made to this system that have become standard in the community. When I ran this, I was constantly thinking that although the line in line system that hurback did was visually elegant, the engineering was bad.
Anyway, I bought several pounds of fittings at the irrigation shop recently. Ready to get back to the bio!
GM
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................I was just giving you a little background between ME and Krusty that’s all: well when your ready and if I can be of any help to yea just let me know and I’ll do my best……………..but you know, it’s like this, the things that I have already made statements about such as the “Lucas Formula” or another thing those are just the way I feel about it and things that I have found to be true in the Bio-Buckets and I really don’t care about debating over them…………….well like I said, when your ready let me know and I’m there.
.................brooklyn, my bio-system holds three and a half bags of lava rocks and those are good sized bags!! I don’t know about you but my reservoir could not hold three and a half bags of lava rocks but you could possibly double the size of it and make it work but I would think they would be more useful at the root zone then in the res………..and if you did do it that way I would not recommend putting them right under the drain back or (water/falls) ………put them around the sides of your res, you can submerge all the way to the bottom of the res as long as you have an inch or so above the water…………..
thanks big toke, right now i run a 50L(about 13gal) mediumless bubbler w/powerhead&airpump and a 35L(about 10gal) bubbler same configuration, but stand alone, i want to change over to 2 x 35L with the 50L as the external res., u said would it be benefical to run the larva coral with the root zone and leave the ext. res. for nute addbacks and agitation, correct? since i'm coming in with an already huge rootball from growin in a smaller bubbler and transfering, there would be no way i could mount my girls in larva rocks but i would like to add rocks to the 35L res itself. whats the possibilities?
…………….”possibilities?” ~ well it like this, I don’t know how many buckets your growing in ~ I don’t know if your system is a completely Recirculating system or not…….BB’s will NOT survive if there are any dead spots!! And pumping compressed air into your system/buckets only serves to heat up your water that much more………….maybe a pic of your system would help me understand were your coming from, plus the res.
right now i run a 50L(about 13gal) mediumless tub bubbler w/powerhead&airstones and a tub 35L(about 10gal) bubbler same configuration, but stand alone, these don't recirc. but theres movement in each because of the powerheads i want to change over to 2 x 35L tubs with the 50L tubs as the external res., the powerheads do heat up the liquid a lil but only to 22c it's still weather/springish where i'm at and i keep a very close watch over my dwc's temps, learned the hard way, now with the warmer months coming, i want to recirc. and downsize physical involvement. my setup also is a trellis'ed scrog, i have the airpump feeding air to the powerhead(not necessary but hey never to much bubbles) which is churning the soup as well as to airstones. i once had a slime on the roots problem and dumped some BB's with some sensizym in the res. and BAM slime done in a matter of days, this with no medium whats so ever, just foam to hold the girls in place, so i guess in that case the BB's ate then died, but they did their job, now that being said the most important thing is to get the larva rocks above the surface of water in the plants tubs, correct? how much larva rocks are u using per netbasket? i'm sorry if u've already answered that one! thanks for ur time yo! peace
