Best Red Wine, cheap and not?

[eastbeast]

Problem with inexpensive pinot noir, expensive pinot noir and Burgndy's is 90% of it is shit. Seriously. Growing pinot is like growing long flowering sativa. Its hard to do it well. I shudder at some of the tripe i have drunk and at some of the good stuff i shudder at the price. Its like a labor of love with no payday at the end. Pinot is my choice.

hrrmm i've agreed with the stuff you've said up until now terroir(nice name choice btw, considering the topic) and you seem to know your wines. Pinot noir grape skins are very thin, making it much more difficult to cultivate, and cheap pinot is shit, you're right.
But i'd think you'd be hard pressed to find an expensive red burgundy that is "shit"; especially from the 2005, 2009, and 2010 vintages, which are already classic and highly collectible.

Burgundy itself is only 3 miles wide and 30 miles long, and is entirely on an eastern-facing slope, making it one of the best wine regions in the world. Burgundy futures are soaring right now, while bordeaux are rapidly falling, making burgundy the most expensive wine at the moment; 2005 romanee-conti is currently selling for as high as $15,000 a bottle.

frankly maybe i'm a little partial to pinot noir, but i do think someone would have better luck with cheap burgundy from a recent vintage than a cheap cali pinot, which is hit or miss.

if you should feel otherwise please respond in good humour!

Cheers!!!

 

[Stoner4Life]

late 70s early 80s @ Christmas time a friend of mine Paul would produce bottles of Port wine his father would bring home from Portugal, his dad was a winemaker. He'd also have some aguardiente a type of Portuguese grain alcohol that his dad made from the grape skins.

Paul was all hustle, funniest mofo; to guarantee he'd score w/a babe he'd have me call the restaurant they were dining @ and have him paged "Dr. Ferreira, telephone call for Dr. Ferreira!" the hostess would call out, Paul would excuse himself and then fill me in on his progress.......

 

[Brother Bear]

actually you're both wrong, very wrong. it's Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill and '73 was an excellent vintage.......

Ah,

Innocence of youth + a pretty girl + handful of mushrooms + few bottles of Boone's = great memories for BB

 

[toughmudderdave]

frankly maybe i'm a little partial to pinot noir, but i do think someone would have better luck with cheap burgundy from a recent vintage than a cheap cali pinot, which is hit or miss.

Same here and yes, a lot of pinots seem "washed out" to me/us. Even some of the Oregon offerings are that way. Seamaiden and I were up in Portland not too long ago and had a one (can't remember the name though) that tasted like....nothing really. Sorely disappointed.

That being said, I still say that MacMurray for a CA Pinot is a great choice as is Williamette Valley (Oregon vintner). Archery Summit from Oregon makes a great higher end Pinot as well.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Honey, what's the Duck one from OR that we like? It's a bit more expensive. Oh! Castle Rock or something like that is another one, but again, IIRC it's more than $20/bottle, yes?

Some of the Chilean reds are pretty good.
I cracked a 2006 Casillero del Diablo Merlot last weekend to enjoy with some fresh venison steaks that was fantastic.

Here we go. I was going to also recommend a Pinot Noir (I'll go further and recommend trying to stick to central Cali coastal PNs), but then remembered that Mr. Hubster and I have had some very good experiences by experimenting with these wines coming out of SA. And we've been getting them from an outfit called Grocery Outlet. I can't remember what the Chilean wine was called that we got, maybe Dave'll remember, but there was also a Spanish wine I liked a lot, had good body, quite drinkable and it was <$10 bottle at GO.

Personally not a Shiraz, Merlot or similar type of wine fan. I have recently discovered Pinot Gris, which is a white wine from a grape believed to be very closely related to my favorite Pinot Noir grape. It is the same *grape* as what's used to make the Italian style Pinot Grigio, but it is most assuredly not the same wine. I've had an Alsatian Pinot Gris that was excellent, but pricey (Trimbach, IIRC, '09..? '10? can't remember vintage), as well as several Oregon Pinot Gris labels. My favorite still is MacMurray and I can't say how pleasantly surprised I was to discover that MacMurray makes a Pinot Gris.

I'm writing all of this because for decades I have only preferred red wine if I'm having any wine at all (generally not a drinker, I'm a toker, been that way most of my life now). But I decided purely on whim to try a glass from a house barrel of Pinot Gris because I just wanted to try something different, and it was delicious. Now I'm hooked. The MacMurray is one of the most complex wines I've ever experienced, and it changes according to what you're eating and even where you are, time of day, it's just amazing. It's even more amazing specifically for me because it allows me to experience scent in a way I haven't been able to for a while.

 

[toughmudderdave]

Honey, what's the Duck one from OR that we like? It's a bit more expensive. Oh! Castle Rock or something like that is another one, but again, IIRC it's more than $20/bottle, yes?

That'd be Duck Pond Cellars, another Williamette Valley winery. I'm drawing a blank on the SA wines at the moment. Perhaps a trip to GO is in order as I'll know it when I see it.

The Castle Rock cost us ~28 bucks at the bistro. I'm sure it's considerably less expensive if one was to purchase it elsewhere.

 

[eastbeast]

Duck Pond and Castle Rock both go for around $10-15 or less if it's on post-off... and Seamaiden have you tried hugel & fils "Gentil"? it's a nice dry alsatian blend that goes for around $12... very nice and minerally...

 

[skullznroses]

Hann from California
Merlot 1999

 

[Terroir]

hrrmm i've agreed with the stuff you've said up until now terroir(nice name choice btw, considering the topic) and you seem to know your wines. Pinot noir grape skins are very thin, making it much more difficult to cultivate, and cheap pinot is shit, you're right.
But i'd think you'd be hard pressed to find an expensive red burgundy that is "shit"; especially from the 2005, 2009, and 2010 vintages, which are already classic and highly collectible.

Burgundy itself is only 3 miles wide and 30 miles long, and is entirely on an eastern-facing slope, making it one of the best wine regions in the world. Burgundy futures are soaring right now, while bordeaux are rapidly falling, making burgundy the most expensive wine at the moment; 2005 romanee-conti is currently selling for as high as $15,000 a bottle.

frankly maybe i'm a little partial to pinot noir, but i do think someone would have better luck with cheap burgundy from a recent vintage than a cheap cali pinot, which is hit or miss.

if you should feel otherwise please respond in good humour!

Cheers!!!

Ok, my take.

Yes burgundy is the home of super premium Pinot NOir and naturally it does pretty dam well there. However (and this goes for all pinot growers) while site is so important for Pinot Noir there is a whole lot more to it. How the grapes are grown. From the pruning, shoot thinning, leaf plucking bunch thinning and, hand picking and triage of picked grapes removing bunches that dont cut the mustard. Most bad pinot comes from bad growers ie to much yield, not enough flavour. Then you have poor seasons when grapes fail to ripen. The cost of growing pinot is extreme. Therefore the cost of a bottle of pinot is higher.

French inheritance laws really stuff with the vineyards and some people just dont know what they are doing. some dont have the money to keep there plot going.

Next step though lies with the wine maker. PInot and chardy are the ultimate stage for a wine maker to show of his skills. Not every wine maker is good and there are alot of crap ones.

I have no experience with californian or oregon Pinot. NZ, Tasmanian, Victorian and South Australian plus a limited splatter of burgundy. I made my statement re 90% from what i have tasted plus experiences of good friends of mine who do vintage in burgundy and other places all around the world. They all say the same.


Romanee contee and the premiere crus and grand crus etc are out of my price range and always will be i suspect to be honest. The alcohol game is just a marketing exercise. He with the most hype commands the highest prices.

I just judge our wine against others. Good is equal, bad is worse and shit is for cooking and wow is for the cellar. I am a pretty simple guy i guess. Buts whats shit for me might be good for you. Our wine rates pretty dam highly if you are into that sort of thing.

Also i no longer drink wine. I was on the brink of alcoholism. Drinking 3 bottles a night. Cannabis got me off the drink. I can now drink socially (1 or 2 beers at christmas or on a camping trip with good mates) but i make sure i dont consume wine or alcohol more than 4 times a year. Never felt better.

 

[vintner]

I'm no wine snob. I like to try them all, & can appreciate them all :friends: My cellar is so full of home made wine that I rarely buy commercial wine anymore, but when I do I lean more towards the Old Vine red zinfandels myself.
Stay thirsty my friends &

 

[TURBD]

I found I got way to wasted on wine. Blackout drunk. The carbonation in beer and mixed drinks makes it harder to drink allot. I drank for 20 years and never got so drunk as I do on red wine. Thinking of that as I finish me beer I really should start drinking that again. Lol.

 

[Payaso]

Gotta put my 2 cents in here... Lived in Spain, France, Holland and did Germany etc. and of course lived in the Dam all those years - so I got to appreciate fine wine a bit...

Here in Northern California I am spoiled and constantly surprised by the wonderful wines around here...

Today I picked up a Smoking Loon Old Vine Zinfandel from 2010 that brings a wonderful smile to my face and the aroma and palate are to say the least, delightful.

I am spoiled indeed, it was on sale at Safeway for $4.89 today, so I got one of their six-packs and got another 10% off that!

The box was rounded out with some other Zins, and a few Cabs. BV from Sonoma is a favorite, and Valley Oaks label from Fetzer is surprisingly drinkable for cheap...

Lake County itself is really coming on strong with some amazing vineyards producing top quality wines. Don't forget they've been growing grapes and making wine here since the 1800s... good volcanic soil for grapes and cannabis!

 

[eastbeast]

$4.89 holy hell thats a good deal!
California seems unique in the fact that such close proximity to vineyards lowers the price of bottles, where as in oregon and washington this doesn't really seem to apply. I know that many prestigous wineries in california offer half price deals on site, where at many vineyards in neighboring states sometimes the wine is more expensive at the vineyard than in the supermarkets! Not always but i frequently see this with pinot noir producers in oregon and high-end washington state cabs..

 

[SeaMaiden]

Payaso, I recently learned that California's wine growing region also happens to be great habitat for truffles. To make things even better, there's an outfit that sells truffle oaks--oak saplings that have been inoculated with the truffle fungi.

The only thing they're not telling me is how to train the pig.

 

[Tup_amaro]

Try one of these (all DOC or DOCG)

Amarone della Valpolicella
Pinot Nero
Sassicaia
Brunello di Montalcino
Cirò
Dolcetto d'Alba
Barbera d'Asti

.. I think you'll be happy..:friends:

 

[huligun]

I have spent many years in Oregon and it really surprises me how such great wine is taken so lightly.

Look into Bethel Hieghts and Willamette Valley for some Pinot Noir or Chardonnay

 

[thcglory]

Mavrodaphne [sweet]
not sure of the spelling.

 

[Red Fang]

Wow! GFC! I have some reading to do! I have some awesome reading to do! Sweet!

 

[Red Fang]

I have a lot of catching up to do but look forward to it! And can't send rep but thanks for the tip!

 

[Bud Spleefman]

Alright, I read this short thread, you guys are killing me.....

In my wine cellar, I have:

Cali wine:

Frank Family Vineyards Cab
Duckhorn Cab
Stags Leap Artemis

French (I am a Bordeaux freak)
Chateau larose Trintaudan (This is a decent Medoc you can get for around 20 dollars a bottle)
Chateau du Tertre (Margaux) (like 50 a bottle)
Clos du Marquis (50 bucks)
Clos Rene (30)
Chateau duTertre (Marguax) (50)

Grand vin de Leoville (Expensive)
Clos Rene (Pomerol) (30)
Les Fiefs de LaGrange (St. Julien) (30)
Chateau Richelieu (20)
Chateau Plince (Pomerol) (30)
Château Pichon Longueville Baron (Pauillac) ($$$)
Pontet Canet (Pauillac ) ($$$)

Italian
Pietranera Brunello (40)

Obviously, some I have cases of, some I have single bottles, but we really like red wine, sort of like weed....... it gets better with age, and there is an art to the production. If I ever quit my job growing weed, I'd like to own a wine shop.