Benefits of Vertical Growing

[ChaosCatalunya]

I have been a fan of 3d growing since year dot. Ed R & Mel F's book iirc started me off thinking, I am sure it was them that showed the 'stadium' ... a normal 2d table, but with the tallest plants at the edge. Now I am playing around with putting taller [stretchier] strains on the sides and/or starting these clones 10 days before the 'middle table clones'.... a Wall of Green.....best not use an acronym for that one... I first did this years ago, running a row or two of Swazi outside a middle of SuperSkunk, it worked really well.

Chatting to my Guru mate, he runs 'valleys' IIRC just 3 NFT systems, with the outside 2 tables 20/30cm higher than the middle one and a light mover up and down the middle, this fills out the plants really well and he is happy with the improvement over the same at the same level.

I am not really indoors at the moment, but may well go back there soon, hopefully with a proper setup and a homemade 3d NFT system. My second ever grow featured a homemade NFT table/system and I have done them DIY ever since, what I really want to do is convert this into a proper 3d system, either a valley first, or a full on colliseum.

The thing that I always look at and do not like with the commercial systems is accessibility, or rather, the lack of... so I was thinking along the lines of welding up strong steel frames, setting up 4 freestanding, but wheeled quarters that move in and out of place.. with remote reservoirs. As I like to play about and try different things, I would probably start with several experiments with the 'table' ... large uPVC drainage ducts vs Fibreglass resin covered wood vs pot holders for drain to waste Coco spring to mind ... and... with any luck some good ideas pinched from you lot....

All I ever learned about homebrewed NFT & Hydro is in Molyneux's "A Practical Guide to NFT" ... just fantastic and also relevant to any Hydro system, not just NFT, the ideas and sections on Materials are pure Gold IMO.

Good luck all, thanks to HGOz, Gypsy & all involved in getting this section up, I am really looking forward to learning a hell of a lot here from you IC people, not to mention stealing all your best ideas... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all....

 

[Teeg420]

TTG, k... had a problem, or two... who is NF? Couldn't find on search. Krusty's posts seem old & couldn't find pics, so not sure on his set-up, though didn't go all the way through... seemed heavily edited...? Here's a clip from teeg420: "Yea hopefully more people will get turned on to growing vert. Guys like heath robinson, 00420, green bastard, prawn connerey, green light, sunny dog, northern farmer, and bongholio have proven that you yield more with vert. It just amazes me the yields these guys are getting." Of all the names listed, 00420 is the only member I could find through search. Other names popped up on word search, but just by reference w/in thread. This seems quite odd to me?!? Why are all the verti growers removed?!? What's up w this...?

Because a majority of those people are on other forums, I love ICMAG but for longest time they didnt have a vert section. 00420, sunny dog and northern farmer are all members. There is plenty others as well in the search function go to advanced and type vertical with the title only it should help narrow down your results.

 

[oregon bob]

Thank you brother! kinda fig that out after my short-bus moment... thank you!

Disregard my other post as hit you up again when discovered you were o/l. Best brah! ;-)

 

[dontae1000]

im not sure i believe the hype about vertical circular grows, im on the vertical stadium as being the best use of space, best use of light yes i agree its vertical circular but not space,,with the circular its only going to be one plant in front of the bulb ,..... the square foot standard of measureing all this increase sqaure foot of light with the cirucular setups is a little misleading , the light efficiency isnt , theres almost complete shade just behind any plant next to the screen on a vertical ciruclar grow, that means one plant per few feet around the light, in the end not much differant to other methods, i mean with substantial light, more tops would yeild more to me as opposed to this method, i think the integration of both via vertical stadium is the best- when ever people quote someone pulling alot of pounds of a few 1000 bulbs their always talking about monster plants and are well out of the quick veg fast flower timeline most people base yeilds on anyways-

 

[Teeg420]

nope with a circular vert you end up getting more surface area/ grow area. compared to the stadium.

 

[turbolaser4528]

vertical growing is chill, definitely makes sense as far as efficiency. I would like to see a 3x3 grow or something similar done with vertical lighting.

but I agree that plants have to be grown completely different, vertical scrog anyone?!

 

[VerdantGreen]

interesting!

you mention high yields, what kind of gram/watt are you getting?

thanks

V.

 

[oregon bob]

I found Heath's stuff... a m a z i n g... who is this guy?!? Talk about constantly pushing your limits... wow.

Thanks Teeg- got a few more days til my pm's activate (think i need 7 days registered, not there). will pm a few questions soon. best to all!

 

[FreezerBoy]

GREAT illustrations! You're my new hero. Rep points for you. Let's see that garden comparison chart again ...

Damn if that don't say it all. I'll STFU now.

 

[Teeg420]

thank you took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[antimatter]

badass

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Hello to all, lots of posts, great to see everyone taking it all in.

There are so many different ways to convert your garden, no matter if you grow in soi, hydro, just a few plants, hundred's of plants, you can always go vert!

System: Vertical Scrog or V-Scrog
Grower's:
Effectiveness:

This method is the most basic, it is most suitable for grower's that like to keep a low plant count or for growers looking to grow sativa dominate strains vertically for maximum yield. This system is mostly used by small scale growers that like to grown under 250w although it can be used in the bigger scale with great success as well. It's as easy as it looks but has a number of features that makes it a very effective system. It is setup using a screen around a 600/1k bulb at 18" in diameter or bigger if your looking to squeeze more plants around it. Remember an 18" diameter will give you a distance of 9" from bud to bulb this gives you an excellent 72,000 lumens of intense light hitting your canopy. The grower has a floor fan at the base of the screen, usually a 12-18" fan, this fan's job is to keep blowing all the heat from the lamp upwards towards the exhaust, it also provides great airflow around your plants that keeps pests at bay,

I have used a different fans for this and the best of the lot has to be the Honeywell 18", this is a very powerful fan with 3 speeds, I find it works excellent!

Photo by, stke_fingas

When growing in a V-scrog it's very important to veg your plants in the same setting, if you veg your plants under a horizontal light then switch them over to vertical during flower you will see bad results, I know a few growers that done it this way and it put them off vertical growing for life which is a pity because they will never try it out again, what happens is when you veg under a horizontal lamp and switch to a vertical light you confuse and stress your plants, this slows down growth and will make your internodes stretch, give you weak steams, sick looking plants, and will kill your potential yield. When you veg vertically your plants grow towards the light from day one and you can pull them through the screens without causing too much stress.


DO NOT VEG UNDER HORZIONTAL LAMPS AND THEN FLOWER WITH VERTICAL LIGHTING.

Photo by, Neptune as you can see Neptune never had a screen around his bulb to get a better canopy and he never used a fan.

As opposed to allot of vertical setups this one gives you the advantage of growing sativas very effectively, I usually give heavy sativas 2 weeks veg then flip them, strains like Super Silver Haze have certain phenotypes that have a massive stretch BUT this is controllable with vertical lighting, in a V-Scrog you have to keep pulling your bulb up as your plants grow bigger, once sativa's have went through the majority of their stretch STOP RAISING THE BULB, once you do this the plant seems to focus more on bushing out than stretching, they don't stop stretching all together but they slow down a load, I'm not sure of the exact reason behind this but it could be the effect of the hormone auxins being released by the plants to adopt to the changed environment, this is the same hormone that is released by supercropping your plants.

Photo by, stke_fingas

When running a V-Scrog you might not need a cooltube, I would advise not to use one, build your system leave it on for a few hours and do a temperature check to see how things are, if its boiling up then get one but if you think you can get away with it then don't use a cool tube, the glass in the cool tube will kill off lumen's that we want to save for the canopy.

Photo by, Rainman

Small number of plants around a bulb is ok, it isn't the best but it can be very successful if done correctly, if you know how to scrog then you'll more than likely master this fairly quickly as it has the same principal, the only real difference is that you can get your canopy closer to your bulb.

More systems to come!

 

[Power13]

Hundred Gram Oz,

Great info there, thanks for posting it up.

How would you modify this scrog technique for using several 600's stacked on top of each other, with a cage type system behind it? Any ideas or tips?

 

[dontae1000]

nope with a circular vert you end up getting more surface area/ grow area. compared to the stadium.

i said circular stadium, not stadium, my points accurate-

 

[Teeg420]

i said circular stadium, not stadium, my points accurate-

Well than it wouldnt be a circular stadium, it would be a coliseum, or whatever you want to call it.

BTW what kind of garden do you run? A vertical circular stadium? if so would love to see pics.

Hundredgarmoz - why is rainmans garden not efficient? thats pretty much how my garden is minus the screen. I would always recomend a cool tube cause 1K's radiate a lot of f***** heat. Especially when you have em stacked 3 in a row. Plus it makes it nice when working in the room.

 

[dontae1000]

your right teeg, circular vertical colesium...thanks for the vocab check.. as of right now im runniing a basic setup for some autos that ill finish outside....plans on c.v.c very soon though, what an efficient use of space and heat management all in one.

 

[charlesweedmore]

bro it is great topic and cooltubes are great for vertical growers.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Hundredgarmoz - why is rainmans garden not efficient? thats pretty much how my garden is minus the screen. I would always recomend a cool tube cause 1K's radiate a lot of f***** heat. Especially when you have em stacked 3 in a row. Plus it makes it nice when working in the room.

Hey Teeg420 sorry ya misunderstood me, what I was trying to say is that having 8 plants around a 600/1k is defo great way to grow vertically, without a doubt, but Vs a vertical SOG with large plant numbers you can achieve much more gpw, I'm not saying it's not efficient at all as I love the system. Rainmans garden is kickass and I'll be running a v-scrog when I get on my feet again, I just used his pic as illustration for anyone that hasn't seen a kickass vertical setup before. I amended my post.

Yeah if you've got 3k in a row your gonna defo need a cool tube, IMVHO I'd prefer to build 3 different setups with 1k for each and try to get away without using a cooltube. But this is just personal preference, people got plant numbers to worry about and the task of looking after it all.

 

[Teeg420]

Yeah if you've got 3k in a row your gonna defo need a cool tube, IMVHO I'd prefer to build 3 different setups with 1k for each and try to get away without using a cooltube. But this is just personal preference, people got plant numbers to worry about and the task of looking after it all.

I feel you get more grow area when you start stacking or having levels of plants, with 3 seperate set ups stacked you would be able to contain that in a 4' X 4' to 6' X 6' area as opposed to having 3 seperate setups on the floor. IMHO when you stack you truly utilize space more efficiently. Your allowing yourself way more gardening area, thats why that illustration is f***** awesome.

I understand not everyone can run high plant numbers, but you dont need high plants numbers in a coli, in reality you could veg out bushes or build bookshelf systems and use less plants.

dude yea at first im like no way this guy is dissing rainmans setup, just a total misunderstanding haha im way too medicated hope this made sense.

 

[crtoker]

A very nice and informative thread from someone that seems to be a real student of the vertical craft.

Peace,

crtoker