No i was watching it and posting earlier. The wife was getting mad at me so I had to finish it.
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Benefits of Vertical Growing
- Thread starter Hundred Gram Oz
- Start date
a very sad day in bikini bottom...
gonna take some time to process that comment. alot going on there...
yes
no
Quite the thread going here. I have noticed that theres not much talk given to the other side of the gpw formula. I always thought it was gpw/$=net. I sorta take that for granted when I talk about it but when I look at this time$ seems to be the integral factor. I can grow a few monsters and blow the gpw out the door. It seems the per/plant avg. is always dived by the time and cost. If I can flip a 5 week old plant (from time of roots showing) and make it yeild 90-100g my gpw/$ is solid.
Canopy size/plant count is another important part of this time/cost ratio. I have seen many many flat grows avg. right around .4 gpw. ( using 5 week time/$) and that seems to be the avg. in my opinion. In CO using a few plants changes things with longer veg if your trying to grow monsters. Any flat grow that has untrained plants using only some net or stakes at the end to hold the tops straight will NOT yield .5 with a 5 week veg. No matter how you look this up training plants is crucial to changing your gpw. I personally have done flats with nice healthy plants, but without clean up and a little topping there is too much waste and the yield sucks. When using vert scrog super cropped every bud is usable. Virtually no waste. Doing this on a flat is also possible but a pain in the back to manage. As others know its back breaking work even with just a couple of lights. Using verticals is soooo much easier. Training plants is vital to get 1.5 gpw on 5 weeks. You will never ever get that on a flat without growing monsters. Thats triple the time/cost and your 1.0 gpw is really much much lower.
This plant is 2 weeks into flower, 7 weeks old and there will be no waste.
Canopy size/plant count is another important part of this time/cost ratio. I have seen many many flat grows avg. right around .4 gpw. ( using 5 week time/$) and that seems to be the avg. in my opinion. In CO using a few plants changes things with longer veg if your trying to grow monsters. Any flat grow that has untrained plants using only some net or stakes at the end to hold the tops straight will NOT yield .5 with a 5 week veg. No matter how you look this up training plants is crucial to changing your gpw. I personally have done flats with nice healthy plants, but without clean up and a little topping there is too much waste and the yield sucks. When using vert scrog super cropped every bud is usable. Virtually no waste. Doing this on a flat is also possible but a pain in the back to manage. As others know its back breaking work even with just a couple of lights. Using verticals is soooo much easier. Training plants is vital to get 1.5 gpw on 5 weeks. You will never ever get that on a flat without growing monsters. Thats triple the time/cost and your 1.0 gpw is really much much lower.
This plant is 2 weeks into flower, 7 weeks old and there will be no waste.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Its all a matter of what u want to do. Sog cant be beat for true gpw and dollars per time and energy spent. Cause u need little to no veg time. After that its just about what u want to do. I prefer to spend a few bucks more for veg and bigger plants so I don't have to worry about leo as much.
I agree. Less plants, higher per/plant yield. Its worth mentioning the labor time for a vertical scrog super cropped is still much lower and overall easier to manage than a flat scrog. I let plants grow 7 weeks without any training except a pinching when they get really tall or stretchy. The net goes in 2 weeks into flower roughly depending on strain. The tops or ends are pinched if needed and theres a little cleanup if there really bushy at this time. Its all in front of you with a vertical. Nothing compared to a flat. Super cropping a flat is a serious bending over job. Brutal.
Once the net is in they grow without any other training. When a big 12in bud starts to fall I use a wire hook made from bendable bailing wire to hook it to the net at about 1-2 o'clock. I made a bunch of these, a few inches long to around 8in and just bent the ends over to make long hooks. I keep them in a can and when it starts to fall just hook it up. Takes 10 seconds. When it gets to the last phase of flower sometimes they need a light deleafing. If they are kept free of dead leaves and such they usually dont need much. In all honesty its the chopping that is the most labor intensive. The net has to be cut and I try to keep the plants whole so I cut around. Still easier than the flat because Im not bending over. For those doing 4 or 10 plants or 50 plants, flat or vertical, its hard to impossible get the high yields without training.
Once the net is in they grow without any other training. When a big 12in bud starts to fall I use a wire hook made from bendable bailing wire to hook it to the net at about 1-2 o'clock. I made a bunch of these, a few inches long to around 8in and just bent the ends over to make long hooks. I keep them in a can and when it starts to fall just hook it up. Takes 10 seconds. When it gets to the last phase of flower sometimes they need a light deleafing. If they are kept free of dead leaves and such they usually dont need much. In all honesty its the chopping that is the most labor intensive. The net has to be cut and I try to keep the plants whole so I cut around. Still easier than the flat because Im not bending over. For those doing 4 or 10 plants or 50 plants, flat or vertical, its hard to impossible get the high yields without training.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
I don't know if the labor is much less, I do know that its easier than leaning over all that time. I use those cheap fuzzy twist ties things that u find in craft areas. They are 12" long, and easy to use to train. Then I tie them back to my scrog fencing. No net cutting this way.
I prefer to over veg. It causes me to cut more out, but I really max out my screens this way.
Depending on the vertical system you are using the labor is definitely decreased significantly. Cutting out net that is right in front of me is not that difficult, but I dont like to do much work overall so I spend a little while on one day and it all done. I use hooks after the net is in, especially towards the end when they get big heavy. Over veg is great but I try to keep my time/cost down so usually under veg a little and let it fill in. I feel like I hit a plateau with the vertical scrog super cropped. Not sure where else I could go with it.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
whats ur idea of platea? Yield? U got a thread going yet?
By plateau I am referring to per/plant avg. divided by my time/cost. Sounds like you super crop vertically and have little to no waste so you can see where it is really all about the care (nute+air+light) quality. I dont have a thread going, I just recently started sharing as there seemed to be so many people with ideas and not as many who have the systems that work. I am happy with what I grow in comparison to others. My gpw/$ is great and my smoke is AAA. I am way below count and wattage and way above the norm for yeild. Is there anything more productive, cost effective, and easy to manage than a vertical super cropped system? I cant imagine anything in reality and definitely havent seen it.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Well if u add rdwc, or the likes maybe its a bit faster or more yield. But I run something close to as fast, just a little more safe from the old root rot that I used to have mastered. If only there was a use for root rot, I coulda made millions. But anyway I rock a ppk and they are pretty fast, and somewhat safer to run, especially in the case of old pythiums sake. I did heaths flooded tube vert, and it dominates the scrog, but then ur talking 70 to 100 plants a light. With my scrog its 2 plants per light.
I use soil in a system almost identical to the icon vertical agriculture system. I actually would like to upgrade to one of those because they are supposed to have a hydroponic set up that can operate much like a rwdc system. This would be an upgrade for me. I like soil, its super easy. I dont want to build anything else. You can do the same with a few plants as with the 70 yield wise. The more plants like that the messier it was for me but I did a few with that set up as well. It was difficult to mange so I went with the half circles and so I can get inside and work all I need to. Theyre on wheels.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
are u the one that poste that icon pic, that looked pretty neat. Im digging my pvc screens, I can just slide them around as needed. Just about like having wheels.
I'm sorry but I'm not beating round the bush here, but from beginning to end this is rubbish.
You're seeing the average flat grower do 0.4gpw?
That's 8 oz from a 600w bulb.
8oz from a 600 is a disaster. Either root rot has struck, or they've fucked their plants by forgetting to water them.. or something else they won't admit to, because that's a miserable yield which can only be explained by the grower not having a clue of the bare basics of how to grow those plants. EIther badly undervegged, badly over, or something else obvious which would cause such a calamity of a yield.
I remember having to pull a grow 2 weeks early and pulling 4oz more than that.... 8oz.?? No. No way. You must be cherry picking the worst grows out there to come up wtih that figure mate and if not, link me to those grows.
The bare minimum you should be doing with topped but untrained plants under a 600 is 12-14oz. That's a bad grow as well btw.
"Any flat grow that has untrained plants using only some net or stakes at the end to hold the tops straight will NOT yield .5 with a 5 week veg."
It's a mystery what you mean by this, because it sounds like you're saying that you can't yield 0.5 on a flat grow with 5 week veg?? I don't get that.
Training or no training, if you're not doing 0.5 you're fucking up mate and you need to go back to the drawing board. It's as simple as that.
1180 dry grams per 1000 watt with my eyes closed
7 pounds 2000 watts 5 week veg horizontal 1.58 stop looking in closet growing and look in real world growing average vert grows .85 - .87 thats a fact seen through out this forum anything more is multi light tree grows with way over 5 week veg add it up
Bull shit here 7 pound harvest un molested plants 2000 watts
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i'm sold on vert. since switching i don't even worry about trimming the bottom like i used to do to reduce larf. since switching to vert even the larf popcorn at the bottom forms solid buds. i think by the end the lowest node or 2 maybe is larf. unlike the horizontal grows of the past where anything below about halfway down was pretty much useless leaves and where i would take clones for plants i decided i liked later in flower.
it's really kinda useless actually, i trim off the larf and because there is so much light hitting the stem than would be in horizontal grows the shit just grows back in a couple weeks anyway. i just leave it and instead of repeatedly growing back more new leaves it just converts previously larf to smokeable popcorn.
reading these arguments about lighting and penetration...i think some of you need to have a closer look at that chart in the OP. it's older than some of you. maths don't lie.
http://bccp.berkeley.edu/o/Academy/workshop08/08 PDFs/Inv_Square_Law.pdf
it's really kinda useless actually, i trim off the larf and because there is so much light hitting the stem than would be in horizontal grows the shit just grows back in a couple weeks anyway. i just leave it and instead of repeatedly growing back more new leaves it just converts previously larf to smokeable popcorn.
reading these arguments about lighting and penetration...i think some of you need to have a closer look at that chart in the OP. it's older than some of you. maths don't lie.
http://bccp.berkeley.edu/o/Academy/workshop08/08 PDFs/Inv_Square_Law.pdf
