Bare Bulb Big Boy Room

[Mr Blah]

These first post are the preparation before we actually forgo any construction.

First off is a rough drawing of what I would like to have done to my all ready grow area.
The 2 rooms on the bottom of the picture are actually in use and growing.
To the left of grow area is a garage bay.
Garage is 40'x26'x10' upstairs is unused living area.

The 2 rooms at the top is what I want to create.
Guide;
Red squares are 12000 btu acs (red arrows are direction of air flow)
Green boxes are fans exhausting air out of the rooms
yellow are lights
Blue is Undercurrent/RDWC set up.
Gray boxes are intake (not sure how many cfm's needed)
Any help, suggestions, reconfiguring, comments is wanted. I want it done right the first time.
Medi grow.

First time I uploaded/inserted pic on this forum, so if they don't come out I will edit.

 

[Mr Blah]

Trying to find a DIY 10 light flip box build (5 ballast).
Anyone know where there is one?

And does anyone know if it shortens the lifespan of Lumatek ballast while plugged into flip boxes?


Still figuring thing out for my build coming up in the next few weeks.

 

[danielJackson]

Don't know of a DIY for 10 specifically. I would check out dxhydro before you build one; they do custom gear and my light controller was not much more then it would have cost me to build something myself.

 

[Mister_D]

Shoot rives, or bobblehead a pm. They can tell you what you need, and how to wire whatever size flip/flop you need .

 

[Mr Blah]

Thanks Mr D.

All I could find for Dig ballast was this one written in 08.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99252&page=2

Wonder if there was a cheaper one without all the fancy crap. Made for dig ballast.
The search continues.

 

[Mister_D]

There's definitely a cheaper way to do things than with plcs'. I just remembered whatthe215 also recently built a flip/flop for digital ballasts. You can find him here (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=263152). Pm anyone of those guys and they can hook you up with the needed information. Ultimately you just need an appropriate sized relay for each two lights, two timers, and a box to hold everything. Bobble and wt215 are friends of mine. Both are helpful dudes, just tell em D sent ya . Rives is our resident electrical expert (he's an electrician in real life), and a very helpful guy. Anyone of em i'm sure would be happy to point you in the right direction.

 

[Mr Blah]

Thanks Mr D, I did contact Bobblehead and he is kind enough to lend me his expertise when time allows him to.

On to another question;

Since I will be keeping one of the rooms 9'.9'' wide and 7' deep x6'.10" (top left in picture) high I am going to use a 8" Vortec fan I all ready have it should exhaust the 422cft about twice a min.
I see all kinds of speed controllers for these fans on fleabay.
Just wondering what other people use?

 

[Mr Blah]

This is an old pic of the two rooms separated by a wall you can't see.
This will be room in the above sketch top left.
Each one of these rooms held 12 RDWC buckets.
2x600hps in ea (raised for pics) cooled by one 8" Vortec
These rooms served me well with 1.5# average ea.
With the wall broken down and a 4 tote UC system in play with 5 hanging bulbs I should pull a little better and less to take care of.

 

[Mister_D]

You don't need a speed controller if your fan is rated for twice per min air flow. Ideally you want twice per min flow 24/7. If temp is an issue i'd suggest a thermostat controlled outlet to turn the fan on/off as needed to maintain whatever temp you desire. These can be had on amazon, etc for around 40 bucks. Here's a link to one I've used in the past (http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8)

 

[Mr Blah]

Cool thanks again!

In the flip rooms do I need the air exchanged 2x even if the temp falls below? Probably just add heat? or circulate the hot air from the other flip room when the lights are on.

 

[bobblehead]

Fuck a speed controller... Use cooling controllers, and seal everything up so that no smell gets out if the fan has to turn off. I've built too many air-cooled rooms, and temps are always unstable when the environment changes outside.

Just my opinion... Michigan has constantly changing weather systems.

 

[Mister_D]

Cool thanks again!

In the flip rooms do I need the air exchanged 2x even if the temp falls below? Probably just add heat? or circulate the hot air from the other flip room when the lights are on.

"Ideally" you would have twice per min air exchange 24/7. However if temps won't allow this, sacrifices have to be made. Do what you can to keep temps inline (75-85 deg F), while allowing as much exhaust as possible.

Personally I got tired of this battle long ago and switched to sealed rooms.

 

[Mr Blah]

I would have to have a very dialed in lung room then.

Bobblehead and Mr D, are you suggesting just ac the room and have no air come and go? If so how many BTU's to cool 5. 600watt (3k)?
Just supply Co2?
HHmmmm got me thinking again.

 

[Mister_D]

That's exactly what we're talking about. No air in, no air out. Co2 is supplied via a burner or tanks. I size my a/c's at 4k btu per 600w light. So in your case 20k btu, closest size sold is 24k btu, so you'd grab a 24k btu mini-split a/c (preferably). Read my redemption thread to see what's involved with sealing. I think I sealed up around page 10.

 

[bobblehead]

Imo the 2x a min air exchange rule is a good baseline... But its flawed and leaves room for improvement. If you're using ambient CO2, you don't need 2x a minute exhange to replenish the CO2. That rule is more about cooling the room. Maybe you only need 1x a minute exchange or less.. idk. Depends on the temps of the incoming air. The best way to control temps with air exchange, imo, is with cooling controllers. Set the exhaust to 75F and the intake to 80F. Seal the room up and put. A backdraft damper on the intake. That's the only way I'll run an air exchanged room anymore.

My new room doesn't exhange any air, 100% sealed... But I might make some modifications to be able to run more light...

 

[DHF]

Imo the 2x a min air exchange rule is a good baseline... But its flawed and leaves room for improvement. If you're using ambient CO2, you don't need 2x a minute exhange to replenish the CO2. That rule is more about cooling the room. Maybe you only need 1x a minute exchange or less.. idk. Depends on the temps of the incoming air. The best way to control temps with air exchange, imo, is with cooling controllers. Set the exhaust to 75F and the intake to 80F. Seal the room up and put. A backdraft damper on the intake. That's the only way I'll run an air exchanged room anymore.

My new room doesn't exhange any air, 100% sealed... But I might make some modifications to be able to run more light...

For the record...... I always ran intakes and exhaust/scrubber combo`s on simple plug-in thermostats and speed controllers , not fancy "environmental" hydro whore controller thinga ma bobs , but .....

Once my lungrooms were dialed to accommodate the "median" temps and rh levels required for bein pumped in and sucked outta both flip rooms regardless of lights on or off , then......

Air exchange twice per minute did indeed control temps during lights on , as well as getting rid of excess humidity/transpiration and expelled CO2 the plants didn`t use lights on during lights off , so I find a setup that was dialed for so many yrs to be anything but "flawed" Bobbles.....but....

EVERY environmental setup has room for improvement , ESPECIALLY sealed w/CO2 setups without dialing every bell and whistle piece of equipment it takes to actually make a sealed setup hoon and produce......as in .......

What to do with all that excess RH durin lights off once swellage is in full force with dehuey`s that pump out as much heat if not more than the results from dehueyin the air to prevent all the airborn nasties during late bloomage......and....

Air exchange twice per minute allowed me to NEVER have a single issue with PM , Botyritis/Greymold , Budrot , etc , etc , etc .....now....

Krusty ran major air exchange during lights off to get rid of excess rh and humidity AND ran sulphur burners late bloomage in his "so-called" sealed rooms with CO2 tanks with controllers and spaghetti tubing with holes punched in em that were draped around the tops of 3+ lb monsters back in the day FTW .........and....

He just never advertised exhausting all the excess RH and expelled CO2 the plants didn`t use during lights on to the multitudes , only to the freedom crew , cuz he enjoyed playin God and tellin folks everything they were doin wrong.....anyways....

Many ways ta skin a mule......and.... I`ve always said that lung room setups take time and dialage with the sq ftg to properly control environment in flip rooms or even single bloom rooms with waaay less bells and whistles than sealed rooms need , but.....

I`ve also always said that each individual setup is different and to be determined what could be put in the budget for total environmental control for the best bottom line result product "consistently" , and that`s where air exchange twice per minute did it for me growin in basements as long as I did .....

Mr D and Bobbles know what they`re doin and howta do it , but air exchange twice per minute to control ambient temps as WELL as constant ambient CO2 levels in and OUT of the bloom rooms while keepin excess lights off rh at bay , worked well for me almost 20 yrs Mr Blah.......regardless.....

Things to ponder with whatever available budget and sq ftg is ultimately the best choice for which setup to go with.....Sealed rooms with everything it takes to be perfect run in and run out are expensive , but work well once dialed.......but.....

I`ve always tried ta help folks do it cheaper and just as well..........

Good luck and.....

Peace....DHF..........

 

[Mr Blah]

Thanks DHF.

As good as a sealed room sounds, DHF is right I do not have the funds/amps to do a sealed room let alone 2 right now.

Thanks Mr D and Bobblehead.

Going to do the 2x air thing.

For the record in the sketch (post one) the bottom right room was my first room started a few yrs back with 2 1k lights (vert passively cooled) in the middle and 2 600's over head on both sides of that 6 bucket set up. No Co2 except for opening up the door every day only for an hr...that is my so called sealed room. Only a 12k wall banger above the door and a large Deh sitting on the shelf (hard piped to waste). temps at 78 lights off and tops off at 88 lights on. 54%rh lights off and 42%rh when on. 3# average for the last 3 yrs.

These pictures are nothing compared to what you guys can do. But these runs have been practice for the flip rooms.

 

[bobman]

Hey sorry to butt in here but did u get three pounds per plant equaling eightteen pounds for the room from 3200 watts or was that three pounds total. One senerio seems way high the other seems way low. Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Mr Blah]

Hey sorry to butt in here but did u get three pounds per plant equaling eightteen pounds for the room from 3200 watts or was that three pounds total. One senerio seems way high the other seems way low. Just curious. Thanks.

Sorry, should of clarified that it was 3# for the whole room. at least 1 of the bunch reaches 1# or pretty close.

 

[Mr Blah]

Almost can grasp the workings of the flip box just need some clarification.
Even though I will be powering my ballast on 240 from my light controller it has nothing to do with the relay?
So getting a 120v relay for each ballast is the one to get?

After this I am ordering the relays....finally.

Sorry so many questions and PM's to Bobblehead, DHF, Rives and whatthe215 about flip boxes but with electricity you got to be spot on. There is no "ops sorry" after the house burns down.

I built my house and garage back in 03 so I know I can do this.