Badly need advices on my problem.

[dvine]

Hello fellows! I have been having problems and i have asked you for tips before but nothing have helped.

I have homemade skunk-passion seeds that i now try to grow "again" but it have now gone on my last nerve after five months of failure and wasted over 200 seeds on different tries.

Here is a picture of the problem.

Let me explain the symptoms and how they look/grow.
They all start with dark green small round leafs like they should but something happens after that. 95% of all plants get discolored in different ways. Some get really light green veins, some get light green tips and some get light green outgrowth and some are just completely light green. All of the plants slows down/stops after they have gotten there first 2 real leafs (1 point leafs). Those who don't stop completely starts go get kinda burned from the bottom up (look at the picture). It starts with just a tiny tiny dead tip and then the leaf just get eaten away slowly and the growth get slowed down even more (have not managed t get one single 7point leaf yet!!!).

Thats basically the problem...

My setup is...
100*70*200(hight) coverd in mylar.
1* 250w MH with cooltube 40cm form the top of the plants.
Really good ventilation.
~50% air humidity.
~24-26 celcius.
2* 120mm computer fans aimed at the plants.

I have tryed...
9 different premixed soils (around 20-25 modified premixed soils, and one completly nutrient free soil) with and without perlite, vermiculite.
Using a pH meter to measure the drain off water and adjust the watering water. Using normal tap water, lake water & rainwater.
Tried to use florescent tubes and 250w MH.
Tried to water less and water more.
Flushing the soil atm the problems start showing.
Tried using nutrients in water.
Small and large containers.

Now as you see i have tried the most things and what makes me EXTREMELY UPSET is that i also sell these seeds and ALL who have bought em can grow it... WYYYYYYYYYYY, I even tried growing in the exact same soil using same setup and everything but still fux it up.

I have now an idea... my last idea if you can't help me come up with something... I'm using toilet paper to germinate my seeds and instead of doing that i now trying to use a "rubber dishwasher towel"(i hope you understands me). I think that my problems begins before i even put em in the soil. I believe it has something to do with the toilet paper i germinate them in (never heard or seen that problem before). Can it be that the toilet paper give some strange poison to the seeds when they are in the paper?

Well if this does not work then I'm completely out of idea's so PLEASE help me, i KNOW for a fact that these seeds are good ones but i can't understand hwy i can't grow em!

 

[MynameStitch]

Well based on the information you gave sounds like you got a nitrogen and magneisum issues; why I have no clue then it coulda been caused by a number of things; I will try to help ya out as much as I can.....

1* 250w MH with cooltube 40cm form the top of the plants.

First off plants that size should not be under a strong light; 250 mh is a waste of energy; you should always use fluro tubes or compact fluros either or; so the light can be close as possible to prevent stretching. After they hit there 4th set of leaves you can pop that 250 back in there.......

MH has the proper spectrum (blue) for vegging plants, flowering plants need orange like HPS....

WHat mixture are they in now? What is the pH?
I can't help you out with your last grow as I do not have all the details but as for this grow I can help you out.

When was the last time you checked your ph for this grow and how often are you feeding in this grow if fed at all and how much?
How often are you watering?
I would aviod using toliet paper unless it's brown paper like cheap schools have....
you want to use something that does not have bleached in them I have seen people have problems with that TP can carry dioxins from the bleaching and all the rinsing they do; not to mention a lot of TP have additives in them which I would say not be good for them.
Use paper towels.

 

[Guest]

Hey Stitch.......what do think that stuff is that dvine is using to grow in his pics above? Looks sorta soppy & something that doesn't drain very well. One suggestion I'd give is to say make sure you don't pack down your soil, etc. Just let gravity & watering settle it in your container and add a little perlite to aid drainage. Once Stitch knows more about your growing conditions, I'm sure she'll provide some helpful tips.....like with the lighting.
Good luck dvine.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, I agree with you X420; the soil looks packed and very wet; no perlite added from the pics and the mixture looks like it was intended for top soil use.....
Packed soil like X420 has stated causes issues with the root development you want to leave it sorta packed, but not hard compacted. You want to leave it a little loose for plants that size.

Not to loose to where when you water the soil sinks; but just enough to where the soil will stay intact and will not descend when you water.
Packed soil like that causes roots to grow slower it's like you trying to get your feet under a door frame.....

 

[dvine]

Thanks for the PT advices i got.
I do not pack my soil down i just let gravity and water do the trick. The soil you see at that picture has 30% perlite in it but because i packed the soil to loose the soil did drop down some and then i just added some normal soil on top of the "soil/perlite" mix.
I have tried to water really little as well as pretty much. When i say little i mean that i have let the soil completely dry out and so that the pot feels really light. The ph of the drain water have never been below 6.5 nor has it ever been above 7.0 (6.8is the limit tho). I let my water just stand still 2 days before i use it.
I have tried to you both fluro tubes an compact fluros but with the exact same result as with the 250w mh. However, the light output does not matter because there is no light on earth that is stronger then the sun and these plants grow naturally under the sun form the start. What matters is the temperature and its never above 27 degrees and never below 22 (24-25 always normally).
I know that Mh has a blue light and that HPS has a red light, i have both at home

I have tryed 9 different soils that you can buy in garden shops, everything from seed/catuar soil to heavy professional soil but all soils with the exact same result. I even tried to use some completely nutrient free mediums where i have only watered with normal tap water that i did set a pH level on 6.5.
I have tried to mix all the different soil loose with allot of perlite (as much as 50%) and have also tried to use no perlite at all and as well somewhere between (20-25%).

So basically i have tried almost everything but germinating the seeds in other things but toilet paper.

I always check the drain water pH during this time now when i have these problems.

Can it really be that the problems have been in the germinating section this whole time??? (sound to easy ^_^)

I gladly answer all tips and questions you got for me

 

[daddyweez2000]

Have you tried the moonshine mix? I just sprouted about 20 seeds in the mix.And boy was it hot 2300 ppm was runoff the P.H. is high but they love it.

 

[MynameStitch]

Dude, 2300 ppms is going to fry your seedlings; goodluck with getting them through that mixture.

owever, the light output does not matter because there is no light on earth that is stronger then the sun and these plants grow naturally under the sun form the start.

Yes, but having the light close to the plant is what matters; does not matter the strength yes; but if you have a high wattage light close to the plant it will get heat stress or bleach; the sun is not directly above the plant so to speak; it's above it but not direct contact like the HPS is.

You are telling me the same thing over and over again; but you have not answered my questions....

WHat mixture are they in now? WHat brand?

How often are you feeding them and how much if you fed them?
If so when was the last feeding?

I even tried to use some completely nutrient free mediums where i have only watered with normal tap water that i did set a pH level on 6.5.

Well that is not going to grow anything good, I think honestly the issue you have is when you did feed you burned them or caused other issues from using to much so you decided not to use anything......

so when they get around that size they need small doses of nutrients.

I always start my mixture out in seed starter mixture; never had any issues as long as you transplant them after 2 weeks of age into a better mixture; by the time they use up all that food in there they need a better mixture....

Again like I said stop using toilet paper and go to paper towels.

So please answer the questions about your feeding and soil mixture; they are important.

your ph may be off if you are using soiless medium, the ph range needs to be in hydro range so we need to rule things out...

Like I said though in past grows when you did feed what kind did you use and how much how often?

In this grow have you fed them yet? If so how much and how often?
WHat mixture are they in now? What soil brand? Any thing added besides perlite?

 

[dvine]

would not help much to tell you what brand i use because i live in Sweden But i can tell you as much as the soil i use is common to use for this plant directly from the start to the end with good result (i have tried all common used brands for this plant). I basically never feed them, alto I have made a try with a common used nutrient for cannabis here in Sweden but with no other result then what i have.
The thing is that all ppl I have sold to have used the exact same soil as me and they have not used any nutrients in there water so therefor i should succeed as well, don't you think?

When i tried to feed i tried to feed em as soon as they started to show any symptoms (light green disscolloring) with 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and even 1/1 nutrient strength but with same results.

About the lights... I have tried to have the lamp at maybe 60-70cm distance but the only difference is that they did stretch more (and they still got sick). I tried to use only floro tubes at 5-10cm but with the same result.

Did i miss some question ? =)

 

[MynameStitch]

I basically never feed them,

There you go; there is your answer; since you live in sweden get some canna terra nutrients and listen to the back of the bottle and feed every 7 days m8! problem solved.

Well you need to find out if your mixture is consdiered soiless or soil to get your right ph; if it is soiless which will have stuff like peat coco and other stuff
if it does not have that it's most likely considered soil which then you want a ph of 6.5 to 7.0

1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and even 1/1 nutrient strength but with same results.

Yes, but how OFTEN were you feeding them? Dosage has some to do with it, because you can't just give them a strong dose at that size you need to feed them weekly. Your mixture is not that strong you can use it for seedlings but after 2 weeks you need to start feeding them.

WHat nutrients do you have now?

THey are sick,because you do not feed them enough; get some grow nutrients like canna terra and you will be straight. Feed weekly at the doses they give you; but if you do not get that brand depending on the brand unless it's advanced nutrients and canna terra; you can't listen to the directions on the back, because the dosages they give are way to strong and then you will end up turning your plants crispy!

 

[dvine]

I have tried to feed em nothing, 1 times each weak and everytime i water them. All the times i have tried at different strengths.

It don't seam to be the nutrient that messes with them because other ppl who uses my seeds in the same soil as i use succeed to get at least a few 7pointy leafs before then need to use any nutrients. I only get two "1 pointy" leafs before they start giving up on me whatever i give em food or not.

Here is the scary part, two years ago i used these seeds in the same soil as i have used now under the same lights as now. However i have moved to a new place but its not that far away from the last place. I still use the same water supplier as before. The only difference i have found is that my growspace is new and that i using another paper to germinate the seeds. If its not the germination stage that is the problem then i honestly start thinking that god him self don't want me to grow these seeds

To make things clear, i have tried to feed em none to all, from nutrient free to overfeeding them and all stages between. Ofc i have also tried different nutrients mixes common used here in Sweden to grow cannabis.
As i sad i have tried all common used soils used for cannabis that can be found here in Sweden (famous ones).

 

[BigAl]

These plants need food!! Plain and simple.

Whack them with 420-560ppm of nutrients, if they handle that well feed them @ 560-700ppm and then 700ppm. They should be sitting pretty within a couple of days.

Seedlings can go straight under 400w HID's with no worries at all.

 

[dvine]

food... Alright i gonna try and give some of them TWISE what the nutrient bottle says Ok maybe not twice but at least 1.5-2 times more then normal.
Kinda strange tho, i have heard/read that they basically don't need any food at all at this early stage. I will give the extream feeding a try as well.

Any other idea's?

 

[BigAl]

DON'T give them TO MUCH NUTRIENTS follow the schedule I just gave you.

Hit them once with 420-560ppm if they handle that well up the level to 560ppm on the next feed. Then if they handle that well slowly move up to 700ppm.

It's all about listening to what the plants are telling you.

 

[dvine]

i have no EC meter to see the values sadly :/

 

[dvine]

My seeds work perfectly when others grow it! They grow it in the same soil with the same lamps and they don't get yellow/lightgreen anywhere. So its not the seeds. Good point tho but i know they work perfect.

 

[DreamMaster]

Have you ever tried to change the water? Like using bottled water or destilled water..
It might just happen that your problem resides in the water, even though you're letting it "rest" for two days that only helps the chloryde to evaporate, if the water is to hard can still be not to healthy to them.

Peace.
DM

 

[Guest]

So you're selling seeds that you can't grow and everyone else is doing ok with them? Try giving away the seed stock for a few buds of the harvest. At least you'll get some weed that way.

 

[MynameStitch]

Dude, your making this harder than it really is; your plants need food plain and simple; it's obvious something YOU are doing if others are growing your same seeds fine.

Feed them!

 

[dvine]

I kinda find it strange that i have to feed em while other don't even tho we use the same soil but i will try and feed em, don't worry

About the water... have tried different water such as rainwater, tap water and lake water but i have not tried bottle water, i might try that as well

I will not try ll the things at ones, i will try them in turns.
Thanks for the tips but i really want more tips if there is any

 

[DreamMaster]

Please man don't get me wrong but did it ever occurred to you that the problem might just be you, instead of the soil, nutes, pots, water etc etc etc...

You know i find it extremely strange that everybody else is doing right with the same kind of setup...
Maybe you're not reading the signs right...
Like when to feed or water.
Besides do you have any pet or is there any chance of any animal peeing on them for instance? I once got that, stray cats were peeing on my girls and were killing them all the time and it took me quite some time until i found them peeing on my girls...

Please don't be pissed with me for saying that it might just be that the problem is you, but that happens man, not everybody have green-fingers mate.

Peace,