~ back to the Old School

[stix~]

a little tired of all the threads being excessively obsessed with the Chems , diesels & OG's lines & outcrosses... i love them too , but come on people lets mix things up for this New Year

seems like real breeders are all in amsterdam ... booYAh .. there , i said it !! lol

most of you guys spread bananas & not love .... simply a bunch of pollen chuckers that aim at getting whatever plants you believe to be special to randomly cross them together and call the result your creation eeeeggghhh

that being said .. the very few that care enough to properly test their seeds before releasing them get my respect

im just pointing out that all the norcal cuts are legendary ... but they got whored out by seed companies so unless you are in the " grapevine " you can forget about them..

so .. long story short .. im a little pissed about the fact that there isn't a good supply of classic or different seeds ........

and

im thinking those who can showcast some old school buds should do it since many of these are being lost as time goes by ...

here's a TARBERRY pic to get things started...


Cripple Creek x Strawberry Creme
^(Pine Tar Kush X Deep Chunk)

 

[Lesnah]

Right on Stix, I'm on the same boat as you and Red Rider....I'm a young dude out of NYC and just got into researching cannabis about 6 years ago.....and quickly realized most of the industry just rework each others "Proven Lines". Straight monotonous skunky bullshit. I do disagree with you about the real breeders being in Amsterdam, I'd say Australia and Spain have straight real deal powerhouse genetics.

 

[homebrew420]

That looks fantastic stix! I too agree to some extent on the rehashed remakes. I am guilty of this as well...sorta.
WHere the hell did you find Cripple Creek? I live in CO and I have been looking for quite some time. Or did you get some seeds? Either way sounds like a lovely complex flavor and aroma.

Peace

 

[Mustafunk]

This is because the global cannabussiness commercial scene situation. And it's certainly the same in USA, Holland, Spain or anywhere in the world. Don't get confused, this obsession and trends are found anywhere. Maybe they arrived later but Amsterdam and Spain are exactly the same nowadays. Everyone smokes, looks for and grows exactly the same. And all the big seedbanks are working with the same genetics every year, it's just like fashion, when a new trend comes most jump into the bandwagon otherwise they are gonna be "outdated". This is not a weed thing, is a global phenomena in our society. And a terrible thing in my opinion as well.

We just need more underground breeders with interest and passion for creating new strains and providing something for the community. More guys using proper brand new breeding material to release original strains to the market and the growers. More breeders tired of the commercial scene and strains and with an urgent need to create something new for their own stash and for others alike to enjoy. Let's say what breeders are really supposed to be doing if you ask me. Stuff like what DJ Short, Sam Skunkman and a few others did in the past for example, and they changed everything!

But hey, it seems that nobody wants to spend years working with landraces, testing and taking the time to see if they have potential or not, digging the palette to find succesful brand new P1 plants of high quality. I mean, when they can use trendy and recognized cuts and hybrids much more easily, who wants to waste so much time, money and effort? Most are just pollen chuckers if you ask me. And most people is simply looking for fast, productive, dank, frosty and potent buds to get stoned if you know what I mean. They don't have any problems with smoking the same kind of strains over and over again and most aren't even open to try different stuff. They have their own standars and there is no love for what falls out of them.

I guess you need lots of passion for the plant rather than for the cash to end with this. Unfortunately there are not many artists and plant artisans among us nowadays.

Las but not least, this is also a problem of us growers/smokers/consumers and what we demand or support. Not much people knows that there is a whole world of cannabis diversity to be explored out from the commercial strains (skunks, hazes, dutch strains, chem/bubba/OG strains, etc). This is like wine, music or whatever hobby you may have. As you get more educated and interested on it, you will start exploring more out from the commercial scene and focus on different things. Pop may be cool but there are so many genres and bands to explore so far! This is how you find fantastic stuff and what you really like in life.

Vibes to all the last artisans standing, those who create brand new hybrids for us to enjoy! It's a shame that we can count them with our fingers though. But there is no big love or room for underground and independent products in this consumerism society of nowadays.

Globalisation just homogenizes everything, even the cities worldwide and their inhabitants, they are loosing their very own traditions and character. Nowadays you can find the same damn shops and franchises everywhere in the world. 5 small local bussiness may close everytime a new Starbucks opens in the district, even if they were amazing places with a fantastic product and their own distinctive character. With the underground breeders is the same, if everyone demands trendy strains, releasing conoisseur independent works that only a few people grow is a waste of time.

Educating ourselves is the key to everything and what could be really changing the world in every single aspect. I'm 100% sure about this.

 

[red rider]

I think I'm pre old school......

 

[VerdantGreen]

im kind of joking, but if you cali guys would STFU for a minute about how great your elites are.... then us 'pollen chuckers' might stop wanting to make seedlines out of them or use them in our crosses.

the only thing that stops you guys hyping a cut is when the next elite comes along and you hype that instead. and so on



happy new year to you all

VG

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

We just need more underground breeders with interest and passion for creating new strains and providing something for the community. More guys using proper brand new breeding material to release original strains to the market and the growers. More breeders tired of the commercial scene and strains and with an urgent need to create something new for their own stash and for others alike to enjoy. Let's say what breeders are really supposed to be doing if you ask me. Stuff like what DJ Short, Sam Skunkman and a few others did in the past for example, and they changed everything!

But hey, it seems that nobody wants to spend years working with landraces, testing and taking the time to see if they have potential or not, digging the palette to find succesful brand new P1 plants of high quality. I mean, when they can use trendy and recognized cuts and hybrids much more easily, who wants to waste so much time, money and effort? Most are just pollen chuckers if you ask me. And most people is simply looking for fast, productive, dank, frosty and potent buds to get stoned if you know what I mean. They don't have any problems with smoking the same stuff and most aren't even open to try different stuff. They have their own standars and there is no love for what falls out of them.

I guess you need lots of passion for the plant rather than for the cash to end with this. Unfortunately there are not many artists and plant artisans among us nowadays.

I think the main difference is that when Sam S or DJ got started decades ago cannabis was so rough around the edges and all over the place genetically based on it's landrace heritage. These guys had to put in years worth of selective breeding to create something worth smoking.

We take it for granted that we are living in the golden age of cannabis, it is not hard to pick up a strain grow a few and find excellent results, in terms of potency, yield, bag appeal etc.. where as in the 70's you might have had to pop 100's if not 1000's of seeds to find something that is quite common today.

Couple this with the cultivation knowledge we have today and we are moving at light speed compared to the past. Hell, a huge leap forward in properly grown herb here in the pages of IC just over the last 8 years or so. When I first came here in 07 the bud pics I was seeing were not like I see here today, it really has come such a long way in such a short period of time in refining our grow skills.

Also as much a people here bitch about hype, take a minute and think about it. In a sea of premium herb we are living in today the only way anything will stand out is to hype it up. I could be sitting on the best plant on earth but if no one else has ever grown it or smoked it my word is not going to carry it very far. This is why the clone/hype thing is how the best strains float to the top even if they are not your holy grail most elites prove superior in one quality or another. Now this is not to say I am not sick of the chems, og's etc.. but where the value of these strains lie is they breed plants even better than themselves. Almost anyone can cross something to chem or OG and have something even better pop out. This is why they have risen to the height of weed fame, its not for nothing these plants are special, not to say they are something that you find the best but they do stand out amongst the crowd for one reason or another.

Think of weed like this quote, "we stood on the shoulders of giants" we would be no where with out the work of guys like DJ and Sam S, but today we will surpass their creations, and 20 years from now growers will surpass what we hold in highest regard today so long as we dont fuck up the gene pool.

We have to keep strains around in their pure form as much as we like to chuck them into polyhybrids, ibl'ing our best strains serves equally as much importance.

I think the best thing growers can do is to follow their own interests in breeding, because where we are being led down the wrong path is everyone is growing and breeding the same exact shit, there is a lack of originality in change for creating things that "will sell" this is the bi-product when there is too many people trying to get rich rather than trying to create something that will be worthwhile.

Money ruins everything, and what we do today to deal with the changes to the the landscape will be what dictates the future. Right now we are seeing an over flow of money hungry opportunists, things are going to get interesting.

 

[red rider]

Globalisation just homogenizes everything, even the cities worldwide and their inhabitants, they are loosing their very own traditions and character. Nowadays you can find the same damn shops and franchises everywhere in the world. 5 small local bussiness may close everytime a new Starbucks opens in the district, even if they were amazing places with a fantastic product and their own distinctive character. With the underground breeders is the same, if everyone demands trendy strains, releasing conoisseur independent works that only a few people grow is a waste of time.

This is very true here in Colombia where we now have starbucks and Crippy.

 

[TrinZilla]

^---- LOL

 

[KiefSweat]

cannabis genetics evolve an f1 seed that was sold 30 years ago will be almost impossible to recreate.

 

[J-Icky]

Genetics don't really "evolve". What we call evolution is just a genetic possibility we haven't seen before.

But this topic is exactly why I'd love to see a community start where people can openly share seeds and those of us that truly want to breed something new and different don't have to go to a seedbank and get their bottlenecked version of landraces.
I would also love to get a source to some of these chinese and japanese "hemp" plants that why not worthwhile by todays standards still have 1-5% thc. Much like Sam did in the old days, i;m sure with enough selection you could eventually turn those "hemp" plants into a new drug line. Heck even wihtout doing much selection those plants could contain some genes that bring out things we have yet to see from this plant.

 

[Betterhaff]

…it's just like fashion…

Some fashion comes back around, hopefully some understand this in the weed biz. I sure see a lot of talk of late about the old school stuff.

Most of the old school (to me) was import and coming from areas where long flowering strains were grown. I just think it’s hard for a lot of growers to grow these types of plants. That’s part of the conundrum.

 

[The Revolution]

I agree Id like to see more old school genetics being bred. Many new "breeders" are jumping on the chem/gsc bandwagon. Some of these hybrids sound interesting, but personally I dont see anything appealing about the gSC. It doesnt seem to yeild for shit. Sure its frosty as fuck, and potent if u get the real cut, and get it dialed.. but its not something I would personally be excited to grow. Id like to see more old school afghani pure lines. Alien isnt the only fire Afghani line out there. No offense to anyone involved, but we all know who are the marketers and who are the real breeders. CC for example, put out sub par genetics, but have their marketing down, so theyre selling 10s of thousands of shitty seeds lol. This is fact. Im not bashing anyone. I personally enjoy the Sour Diesel, and Sour hybrids. We need to start digging into our seed stashes and growing out the old seeds before theyre no longer viable and sharing so they dont go non existent. I am guilty of this also I was sitting on thousands of rare seeds, and I lost them all in a raid. I was addicted to collecting, these seeds. Dont get me wrong I shared a lot of seeds. I gifted out every seed from my breeding projects, and just recently began selling a few packs before I lost everything I collected, and created over a 15+ year period. I lost a lot of stuff thats just not available anymore. Pure landrace sativas, old LMN seeds, old african seed co seeds.. The ones I did gift out were fucking pitched to make room for chems and oGs.. Kinda pissed me off, but it is what it is.. Pop those old seeds while u still can.

 

[RandyCalifornia]

The ball keeps rollin and the herb keeps changin from what I've seen, that's just the way it goes.

 

[TerpeneTom]

 

[Mustafunk]

I think the main difference is that when Sam S or DJ got started decades ago cannabis was so rough around the edges and all over the place genetically based on it's landrace heritage. These guys had to put in years worth of selective breeding to create something worth smoking.

Do you really thing this is true?? So what's the difference between them and the good breeders from today that create similar strains instead of commercial poly-hybrids? I'm pretty sure that back in the days there were lots of top notch available herbs too. Many tests reported plenty of thai or african imports reaching 12-15%THC. This is even average for many commercial strains from today, excluding elite clones of course. And keep in mind that those oldschool potent buds were just a few batches between the very few tested buds from another few researches at the time. Even Sam and other OGs told many times that it's no longer possible or very unlikely to find any modern quality thais, colombians or mexicans like in the 70s. Plus we know as well that THC % and potency is not what matters in a good effect, but the terpenes as well.

It's an urban myth that weed is better nowadays, sure good weed it's more available for everyone to grow and smoke. But the strains were fantastic in the 70s already, when there were no laws to stop farmers to grow hundreds of plants with finesse and refine strains to find only the best product (of course all those top notch buds were only for the connoisseurs who could afford them back then). Talk for example about the ancient indian ganja culture... a highly specialized industry that was never replicated until today at that scale. They even had specialized workers to examine and cull males and hermies.

You just need to study a bit of cannabis history to find out about this phenomena and the "evolution" of drug cannabis strains. It's not just an OG or nostalgic veteran pothead thing. Indeed strains did changed and evolved but in many ways for worse in my opinion, just following pure commercial criteria. This made us end with the highly homogenous collection of bottlenecked commercial strains we have nowadays. It's basically everything skunk or afghan hybrds. Plus you can't even find good old skunk, afghan or haze in pure form because everything is so diluted and hybridized that it's an impossible task lol. It was just a matter of a coincidence that those and not other lines were the bricks for the modern hybrids.

What happened in Holland when the american lines arrived or even the afghans were introduced in USA in the 70s is far from cultivar evolution, it was exactly the opposite, a tragedy for the cultivar and strain diversity! Simply an evolution into more commercial profitable crops, suitable for domestic an even indoor growing and so on. The problem is that much people puts potency, production, appeal or taste as their standars for high quality cannabis while it shouldn't be like that. This is what made the whole cannabis scene focus into one single direction instead of multiple ones and a more diverse offer. This also happened with corn, apples, tomatoes, mangoes or whatever crop or product... most commercial varieties evolved only from the most profitable and commercial cultivars or the ones that the companies favored. But not because they were the varieties with the best flavour or quality available for example.

The problem could be that many people is ok or even enjoy that because they couldn't try anything different so nothing changes. Absolutely all the commercial strains belong to just 4 or 5 strain families, all with the same characteristics, genetics, terpenes, behaviour and so on. You can put any strain inside one of those groups. So the offer is really poor in my opinion. Yeah thousands of different strains, but most are the same genetics and they smoke, smell and get you high in almost the same way.

And by the way, then what's up with the real breeders from our time that decided to take a different path and work with pure lines to create new hybrids because they don't like the commercial strains or they wanted to create something totally brand new? Just like Short or Sam did in the past. They are doing it nowadays even though they have much limited space and resources (due to the laws mainly) than Sam or the seed companies in the 90s. But with a bit of love, patience and consistence good and original strains are being created even nowadays. Even many amateur growers are doing that too just for the passion and not as a job or bussiness. So I don't think it was done in the past just as a need to find something worthy. It's done simply to find something different that many people could like.

You are right with the fact that anyone can take a good clone and make S1s or cross them and get a fantastic offspring or hybrid. But hey, is that really adding something new to the scene? Nowadays the market rules everything... the companies just need to favor new trends so they can sell something new to the same old people. And with the underground nature of our community this are the consequences. I don't know much about the american market but what I see is not very different to what I see in Europe or the rest of the world. So let's give the credit when credit is due and stop supporting pollen chuckers who just look for the cash and the easy props. Everyone can pollen-chuck at home, but there's a big difference between that and working with pure lines for years to create NEW strains from the start.

I really want to thing that I'm not such a rare guy here or an rebel without a cause. It's just a matter of finding what you like or being open to different stuff. Everyone may like pop but there are so many different music genres out there ready to be discovered. Problem is that industry only favors and supports the commercial bands or movies so you need to dig a bit deeper or get involved with that too, just like with cannabis strains.

Vibes.

 

[satva]

Hey homebrew420,

Old school, arg, I resemble that comment. Sad to say, but that's all I know.

Any old school strains you stock in the store? I live in Arvada, CO and spend weekends in Boulder. The clean and clear effect of Highland Thai (Destroyer) is my favorite. Is there still old school floating around in Boulder or Nederland?

PS> 1975 Highland Oaxacan Gold, 1973 Maui Wowie, and 1970's Acapulco Gold were my favorites. 1976 Juicy Fruit Thai stick was (one of) the best and one of the few to be grown sinsemilla. Call me crazy, but I'd have gladly paid a $1 for a handful of those seeds.

PPS> 1970's Panama Red and 1970's Dark Colombian was very strong, and psychedelic but not my cup of tea. I didn't get to smoke enough of the early 1970's Colombian Gold. My brother's farmer friend grew sinsemilla Oaxacan for many years, and I grew the 1973 Maui Wowie for a couple of years. It was never the same after that......

PPS> Cannabiogen, seems to be providing strains with stellar old school effect.

PPPS> In 1974, the "Complete Marijuana Growers Guide" was 16 pages, and cost $0.75 cents. The paragraph on 12/12, was gold. Got things rolling in the right direction.

 

[red rider]

Best of both worlds

Best of both worlds

I love the new weed standard of fresh seedless aromatic flowers. Most of the weed even in Colombia is now Crippy and that’s what I’m buying now (since I have to buy at the moment). I don’t buy it for the effect as much as economy, I pay ten grams and get 10 gr of very potent smoke. Because of security reasons I need a quick powerful hit on the fly and the Crippy is perfect for this. When I can find the old lumbo it is cheaper and I get a lot more like 500gr or more but there’s a 50/50 chance its bullshit. In fact I don’t even bother with the “regs” unless my guy calls saying he found something “special”.

As far as growing old school my plan is simple and direct, take seed from the best old school Colombian representations and reproduce them here in their native environment. I’m not trying to be any kind of breeder, I just want the pure Colombians I had. I know exactly what it is I want from the plant and now I want to find that here. Nothing at all against Colombian growers but I think I can grow it better for my personal tastes based on existing possibilities. I believe these Colombian genetics to be old but not gone in anyway but in fact live on in current strains, cut and homogenized. I simply want to reestablish a long time proven set of genetics and reintroduce them.

Here’s is a good comparison, the bud on the left is very potent indica dominant Crippy. It hits hard with a sweet fruity delicious flavor, quick onset and full body effect. Long duration too, sticks to your bones type of stone.

The bud on the right is Colombian high altitude grown Black. Also very potent but with a dark earthy, musky flavor and a devastating effect. Unlike the Crippy the Black has more thought generation and creativity. You can smoke more of the Black and get even higher, with the Crippy you hit a wall after two or three hits. Once you get over the pretty pot and it’s down to the real reason I consume the Black for me is the best choice.
The more things change the more they stay the same and I'm sure that Colombian will come back.

 

[stix~]

( OldSuperSkunk ) X ( Deep.Chem )
(M11) X (Deep Skunk 9 x Chem D )

 

[MOneYMiKe]

Nice stixx.....deff some affy in there.....