Seriously, in practice it will suffer a lot the comparison. I agree that the pedigree have today an enormous weight in the market (see all the hyped masterkush cuts wich are theyr own brand in certain manner), but it's only a customer's side effect. The best examples imho being the sour diesel madness terminated by the coop of GHS. Today you can buy it "near bulk" for a relative good price, even if the seeds are old.
But for me it's more about the direct lineage that a true pedigree. Today more that before, the majority of seedbanks are simply unable to produce the true pedigree of theyr lines. Like it's done with dogs, horses etc ... because if they take the time to do it, they will disapear from the radars and from the interrest of the modern customers.
Sadly, i consider that without a solid pedigree full of informations you're simply unable to select anything. That's a pretty radical sentence but in practice it's simply logical. And it eat a lot of seeds lol
I understand what you mean, and i have the names that you don't drop in head. But i don't agree, backcrossing is an usefull tool to stabilize an IBL project too. I don't blame the guys wich are dedicated to outcross everything they can, generally with the same male, because it's a key of success today. And i prefer a million times guys wich do that, that chems-fems factories.
I just blame them to let people think that this technic (BX) is a lazzy ass way or the golden road to fix a specimen in a reg line. When you dig a combination of gens on a long term, you accept that you will loose maybe twos to four generations "for the science". It's when to BX a line can be usefulll (too). One more time i'm speaking about regular backcrossing and absolutly not selfing.
Like the example i've quoted, if you're too agressive in reducing the flowering time you will hit the maturity specs of your line. It mean a decrease in the duration of the high, taste nuancies, more trichomes but less valuable (i call that the "cacti effect") etc ... if you was enough clever to backup earlier a parralel "strong line" from the same P1 it's when the BX become a lifesaver. You're able to reinject (one or a fews time, depend on the agressivity of the "shortened" generation) the potency/quality again without destructing the work you've done previously. I compare that with the setting of a carburator "rich/poor" that BX offer in this specific case.
The most expensive cuts that i've seen offered was males cuts. But as breeding stock and between twos companies. Enough to buy a car with a funny motor.
I will never say enough that males are the key of the quality in almost everything. Good ones never do the things half like females, they transform anything you outcross in a yielder, a H bomb potency, a frosted as hell buds ... the hard part being to identify them with time.
I agree that the paradox is that the males reign is over since a good decade (lol) Near to the point that a lot of people consider it as useless in the equation. In another hands, they are the first to don't understand in front of a cone how a simple worked skunk#1 can handle the most hyped polyhybrids they have. It's why i think now that "real cups with real people" are becoming critical and vital for the global quality. And to reduce the part of marketing in knownledges by the shock of concrete examples.
A lot of people will disagree, but the more you give importance to your females buds instead males specs ... the less you can compete in the "high grade" range as breeder or homebreeder. I've saw too many proud "serial outcrossers" being owned by a simple classic strains rightly maintained, to think different. But these polished lines have nothing to sell (no story) but improvements, and customers since the first seeds catalogs are trapped in a neverending cycle of trends.
The infernal spiral, i think, is that these cycles reached today a point of speed wich is over the intrinsequal specificities of the plant itself. Quality eat time. I mean, like you writed before, that the game is faster that the plant itself. And it's a bad situation at long term. Maybe you will be right in the next decade, and that the genpool of old school homebreeders will become vaults. I hope not, i'm more dreaming on the come back of the private genpools. The technology we have now don't necessary need to be used to grow faster and cheaper.
Nice donor btw ^^ And i'm enough confident to say that it is a genetic timebomb with a little experience on both strains. The F1 heterosis experience will blind you, take care. I think that you allready known that the sensi star print more in depth that in shape, with a high domination rate with each successive inbred. To push to early the flowering time with dragster males will harm the NYCD blood fast with no return possible.
The example is silly but, i compare this blood (sensi star) with the WW in term of progeny. Cross one time a JH with a WW, you will have a decent equilibrum in heterosis (F1). Push the line and the WW will totally eat the JH within 3 generations if you don't breed fully recessive (the 25% rule).
The SS is one of my biggest regret. When the reg was available and at a good quality standart, i ignored it because the hype around. What a big mistake. But i can't backup all old catalogs lol
I wish you the best for your projects, be patient and you will have a rich explosion of gens to select.
It's more about a rate that specific donors give as a "bundle" if you want. I don't known the 79 cut he will use but the sensi star bundle will drive the potency all the way imho.
It's like crossing a cow wich produce a lot of milk with a cow wich is extremly resistant to cold weathers. In the case where they are genetically equals (it never happend without IBL behind or a luck of leprechaun lol), you allready known that the "milky" shape (fur color, traits like nose shape, muscles etc...) is to hunt if the new hybrid is not enough productive in term of milk and that you don't see any change in term of vigor/disease resistance (in this example, a decrease). I will not speak here about markers but that's the idea and it's a big part of MGO.
In this vein, i can barely predict that crossing a B52 male with a Sensi Star female will decrease the potency in adding vegetal mass to feed with extra potency, to stay at the same level of the original sensi star (but with an improved yield). Because you will judge your females in the spectrum of the male addition. You're forced to it because the heterosis.
If you switch the roles, you don't add additionnal vegetal mass to feed with quality trichomes. You just improve the potency of the B52. The females flowers being always our starting point of judgement.
I've tryed to be clear but it's hard with my level of english, it's a question of perspective in fact. This perspective will entirely drive your strategy among generations. The difficulty when you're fresh in this madness is to don't understand this perspective as a god law and to fall in absolute considerations. You have to be strong and without any pity about it or you will become crazy when segregation will occur, to don't find your previous markers in specimens that you don't planned to have.
Maybe in F3 you will need to BX an extremly strong sensi star pheno hybrid with the B52 P1 to get back in the range of your project. And it will push you more near to the specific hybrid that you wanted to create that directly select only mitigate specimens. These last ones are by definition the property of mother nature, it's extremly hard to handle them by theyr fake dominance (the shape tell you that it's stable, the offspring tell you that it's a mess with average qualities).
To end this hard part to digest, there is no stable rules of predominance but the intrinsequal qualities of the strains that you use and want to dilute in another specimen.
I increase the vegetal mass ? Ok, i will need high quality trichomes or more trichomes.
I increase the potency ? Ok, i decrease the vegetal mass to compact it or maybe i will high a little the maturity to let more time to the plant to reach this goal.
etc ... add to it the specificities of the donors (big bud yielder, sensi star hammer) and you have a good overview of the mastered chaos where you will swim.
Not the same way, but yes the results are similar in short periods.
BX methodologies must be used if you allready have what you search and that you just want to set the best equilibrum that you judge good. Between the donor and the host. I ignore the beauttifull tool that it is in an IBL project to don't mix too much the considerations lol
IBL is more for segregate a population in the same range of selection, the effects of your work are longer to come/touch but when the heterosis and the mendelian segregation are passed it's stronger. It is typically the "my plants look like clones but theyr are seeds". If you care enough in building enough parralel lines from the same P1, you can virtually push your selection potential over your own spanlife. You can't with BX, you reach fast a limit when the gens potential become too poor to be more pushed.
Advanced BX methodology exist (bateson jumps etc...) to counter this difficulty but it's very specific and mainly used to preserve something "naturally" not planned to survive a genetic blend. The SCBB cut is a perfect example of this type of case.
It's always nice for me to read a grower becoming a dictator in his crop. Nostalgia. I've learned all i known in killing a massive amount of plants, not in keeping them all. It's not a joke lol
SOG have the particularity to be handy with our conditions (illegal indoors mainly) with a great productivity when you juggle with your own seeds. With big plants the sacrifice is too high and it need professionnal/expensive structures. I use a lot the "seeds directly in 12/12" to test a batch of offspring before a selection.
Damn i writed a little bit too much, but nice talk. I always enjoy when i see people come back to homebreeding.
Be patient and methodic, respect your own choices and stay on it until your success ... and you will create weed that companies are not longer able to offer to you. I promise you that for good.
