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are you a "conspiracy theorist"?
- Thread starter trichrider
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lets try not to make this a fight. i understand peoples frustration at some of these dismissive posts with nothing but the posters say so to back them up, specially when one has taken the time to post things that would answer every one of the issues raised.
i could take your posts S4L and answer point for point, but when you say you try and stay up to date, it just isn't true is it, otherwise you'd be looking at the information posted. when you told TR that you didnt waste your time with 1 of his links you basically made your opinion valueless. how can you form an opinion without studying both sides of an issue?
your idea that the weight of the buildings load and the placement of the furniture made all the difference is really quit funny, because there is no way that would explain the way those buildings fell down so fast. but it also ignores the turning to dust a huge part of the structure. and the hundreds of witnesses talking about explosions and detonations inside the building.
anyway, seems to me you will not be studying this as your mind is made up and you said yourself you won't bother, so to me it looks like i'm being more logical about things, i'm prepared to look at any evidence you'd like to show me, in fact i still want to see pics with the wreck of a 757 on the pentagon lawn.
i could take your posts S4L and answer point for point, but when you say you try and stay up to date, it just isn't true is it, otherwise you'd be looking at the information posted. when you told TR that you didnt waste your time with 1 of his links you basically made your opinion valueless. how can you form an opinion without studying both sides of an issue?
your idea that the weight of the buildings load and the placement of the furniture made all the difference is really quit funny, because there is no way that would explain the way those buildings fell down so fast. but it also ignores the turning to dust a huge part of the structure. and the hundreds of witnesses talking about explosions and detonations inside the building.
anyway, seems to me you will not be studying this as your mind is made up and you said yourself you won't bother, so to me it looks like i'm being more logical about things, i'm prepared to look at any evidence you'd like to show me, in fact i still want to see pics with the wreck of a 757 on the pentagon lawn.
Cognitive dissonance is what your pointing out gaiusmarius.
yes. this is very important, because it is one of the key mechanisms with which the masses are kept under control.
ever wonder why fox news preaches conservatism but has the raciest shows? same goes for church, government, etc. they constantly induce cognitive dissonance in us.
from wiki:
this is also quite revealing:
i can't overstate how important blackmail is in this context. it is the #1 tool to bring politicians and businessmen to do your bidding.
works like this: DC cocktail party -> send underage (but older looking) hooker to wait for the target in his hotel room after the party -> record and file for future use.
easy as fucking pie...
and if the person happens to have too much integrity for that there are other methods ...
good morning theorists.
and you too S4L.
MKUltra and mind control interview. recent.
http://www.salve-tv.net/web/de/webt...oplay=true&area=8&division=&counter=1&leaf=on
and you too S4L.
MKUltra and mind control interview. recent.
http://www.salve-tv.net/web/de/webt...oplay=true&area=8&division=&counter=1&leaf=on
Mayer Amschel Rothschild
If I could go back in time and Eliminate one person from history..... Id start here if world peace and Evolving was my numero uno Priority
If I could go back in time and Eliminate one person from history..... Id start here if world peace and Evolving was my numero uno Priority
http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm
Oh weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Oh weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
The foolish plan to sell American toll roads to foreign companies.
By Daniel Gross
For rent: U.S. toll booths For rent: U.S. toll booths
If a governor told you there were a way to spread pork, raise funds for infrastructure investment, promote jobs, avoid raising taxes, and put a dent in the trade deficit—all in one fell swoop—you might think he had a bridge to sell you. And you'd be right. Only in this case, it's a toll road. And instead of a sale, how about a long-term lease?
Earlier this month, in a triumph for Gov. Mitch Daniels, Indiana's House narrowly approved his proposal to lease the 157-mile Indiana Toll Road, which spans the northern part of the state, for $3.85 billion to a joint venture of Cintra, a Spanish company, and Australia's Macquarie Bank. The two companies have been active in the U.S. road business. In 2004, the two inked a 99-year lease for the 7.8-mile elevated Chicago Skyway. Last year, Macquarie completed its acquisition of the Dulles Greenway outside Washington, D.C. And Cintra, which manages toll roads in Europe and the Americas, is a strategic partner to the Texas state government in the planned Trans-Texas Corridor. There are likely more such deals to come.
For Daniels—who failed to live up to his nickname ("The Blade") when he served as director of the Office of Management and Budget in the first Bush administration—the 75-year lease is an elegant solution. The state needs billions of dollars to invest in new roads. Getting the cash upfront will allow Daniels to speed up construction on needed infrastructure projects, create new jobs, and fund his Clintonian Major Moves initiative. (Here's a list of projects to be funded and a fact sheet on the deal.) And by raising the cash from foreigners, he's doing his part to rein in the pernicious current-account deficit. "Too often in Indiana, we see Hoosier dollars and jobs leaving the state. Major Moves is an exciting opportunity to recapture U.S. dollars by attracting foreign investment, and use them to create jobs for Hoosiers," he said.
What's in it for the foreign companies? Huge potential profits. Gigantic, steady profits. Toll roads are an incredible asset class. They're often monopolies. They can support debt, since they provide a recurring guaranteed revenue stream that is likely to rise over time, as more people take to the roads and tolls increase. According to Cintra, the Indiana Toll Road generated $96 million in revenues in 2005, and Cintra expects a 12.5 percent internal rate of return on its investment. The heavy lifting has already been done: The state or federal governments have acquired the land and rights of way, built the roads and maintained them for years, and enacted toll increases. All the private companies have to do is deliver cash upfront, maintain the roads, and collect the windfall. The buyers can also increase their profits by making toll roads run more efficiently with technology. After assuming control of the Chicago Skyway, the Cintra-Macquarie consortium installed electronic toll equipment on some lanes. And by refinancing nimbly, companies can cash out. Last year—just seven months into its 99-year lease—Cintra announced that it had recovered 44 percent of its initial investment in the Chicago road through refinancing.
(So, why aren't American companies buying up our toll roads? Here's a theory.)
This easy money for foreigners makes the locals uneasy. In mid-March, the Indiana House approved the deal by a surprisingly slim margin. The Indiana scheme continues to engender local opposition. Last week, while participating in a panel discussion in South Bend, Ind., I got the sense that the toll lease made Hoosiers uneasy for reasons they couldn't quite articulate. It's not like the buyers could uproot the concrete and move it to Queensland, Australia, or Seville, Spain. The 400-page contract spells out in detail obligations of the consortium to invest in maintenance and safety and to keep a lid on toll rates. And unlike the Dubai ports case, it's hard to see how management of the toll road by a foreign entity could raise security threats.
I think the uneasiness has more to do with what it says about the peculiar fiscal climate in the United States. How is it that in the richest nation on the earth, localities simply don't have the cash to do necessary maintenance on basic infrastructure, the political will to raise such funds, or the competence to run such easily profitable operations? Why are they being forced to sell off long-term cash cows for short-term cash?
Leasing or selling a public asset is a classic one-shot—a short-term measure that bolsters the balance sheet today but that can't be repeated. While politicians like Daniels focus on getting through the next few fiscal years with minimum pain, foreign companies are thinking about how to get rich off of tolls for the next three-quarters of a century. From Gov. Daniels to his former boss, President Bush, there's a troubling unwillingness to align governmental resources with the express goals and responsibilities of government. At the federal level, we rely on China's central bank to buy our bonds and fund basic operations. As a result, our tax revenues wind up in Beijing—as interest payments. At the state level, Indiana is relying on foreign companies to lease public infrastructure like toll roads. And under these arrangements, tolls—taxes people pay for driving—are being paid to foreign shareholders of foreign companies.
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2006/03/lost_highway.html?nav=fo
By Daniel Gross
For rent: U.S. toll booths For rent: U.S. toll booths
If a governor told you there were a way to spread pork, raise funds for infrastructure investment, promote jobs, avoid raising taxes, and put a dent in the trade deficit—all in one fell swoop—you might think he had a bridge to sell you. And you'd be right. Only in this case, it's a toll road. And instead of a sale, how about a long-term lease?
Earlier this month, in a triumph for Gov. Mitch Daniels, Indiana's House narrowly approved his proposal to lease the 157-mile Indiana Toll Road, which spans the northern part of the state, for $3.85 billion to a joint venture of Cintra, a Spanish company, and Australia's Macquarie Bank. The two companies have been active in the U.S. road business. In 2004, the two inked a 99-year lease for the 7.8-mile elevated Chicago Skyway. Last year, Macquarie completed its acquisition of the Dulles Greenway outside Washington, D.C. And Cintra, which manages toll roads in Europe and the Americas, is a strategic partner to the Texas state government in the planned Trans-Texas Corridor. There are likely more such deals to come.
For Daniels—who failed to live up to his nickname ("The Blade") when he served as director of the Office of Management and Budget in the first Bush administration—the 75-year lease is an elegant solution. The state needs billions of dollars to invest in new roads. Getting the cash upfront will allow Daniels to speed up construction on needed infrastructure projects, create new jobs, and fund his Clintonian Major Moves initiative. (Here's a list of projects to be funded and a fact sheet on the deal.) And by raising the cash from foreigners, he's doing his part to rein in the pernicious current-account deficit. "Too often in Indiana, we see Hoosier dollars and jobs leaving the state. Major Moves is an exciting opportunity to recapture U.S. dollars by attracting foreign investment, and use them to create jobs for Hoosiers," he said.
What's in it for the foreign companies? Huge potential profits. Gigantic, steady profits. Toll roads are an incredible asset class. They're often monopolies. They can support debt, since they provide a recurring guaranteed revenue stream that is likely to rise over time, as more people take to the roads and tolls increase. According to Cintra, the Indiana Toll Road generated $96 million in revenues in 2005, and Cintra expects a 12.5 percent internal rate of return on its investment. The heavy lifting has already been done: The state or federal governments have acquired the land and rights of way, built the roads and maintained them for years, and enacted toll increases. All the private companies have to do is deliver cash upfront, maintain the roads, and collect the windfall. The buyers can also increase their profits by making toll roads run more efficiently with technology. After assuming control of the Chicago Skyway, the Cintra-Macquarie consortium installed electronic toll equipment on some lanes. And by refinancing nimbly, companies can cash out. Last year—just seven months into its 99-year lease—Cintra announced that it had recovered 44 percent of its initial investment in the Chicago road through refinancing.
(So, why aren't American companies buying up our toll roads? Here's a theory.)
This easy money for foreigners makes the locals uneasy. In mid-March, the Indiana House approved the deal by a surprisingly slim margin. The Indiana scheme continues to engender local opposition. Last week, while participating in a panel discussion in South Bend, Ind., I got the sense that the toll lease made Hoosiers uneasy for reasons they couldn't quite articulate. It's not like the buyers could uproot the concrete and move it to Queensland, Australia, or Seville, Spain. The 400-page contract spells out in detail obligations of the consortium to invest in maintenance and safety and to keep a lid on toll rates. And unlike the Dubai ports case, it's hard to see how management of the toll road by a foreign entity could raise security threats.
I think the uneasiness has more to do with what it says about the peculiar fiscal climate in the United States. How is it that in the richest nation on the earth, localities simply don't have the cash to do necessary maintenance on basic infrastructure, the political will to raise such funds, or the competence to run such easily profitable operations? Why are they being forced to sell off long-term cash cows for short-term cash?
Leasing or selling a public asset is a classic one-shot—a short-term measure that bolsters the balance sheet today but that can't be repeated. While politicians like Daniels focus on getting through the next few fiscal years with minimum pain, foreign companies are thinking about how to get rich off of tolls for the next three-quarters of a century. From Gov. Daniels to his former boss, President Bush, there's a troubling unwillingness to align governmental resources with the express goals and responsibilities of government. At the federal level, we rely on China's central bank to buy our bonds and fund basic operations. As a result, our tax revenues wind up in Beijing—as interest payments. At the state level, Indiana is relying on foreign companies to lease public infrastructure like toll roads. And under these arrangements, tolls—taxes people pay for driving—are being paid to foreign shareholders of foreign companies.
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2006/03/lost_highway.html?nav=fo
LET'S WATCH A DEBATE!!
When I am not expert on something, and I don't have the time to invest in doing the hours and hours of research on that thing, I find it very valuable to watch two opposing parties (who have spent many hours and are experts in the area of that thing) debate each other. I do consider myself very capable of listening to these experts and deciding who seems to have a better handle on the info and who's conclusions I support.
Here for your enjoyment (or displeasure...) is a debate about 9/11 between the "Loose Change" filmmakers and the Popular Mechanics editors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths." This happened on the show Democracy Now, and seems to be a decent debate to help inform.
Divided into parts for easier viewing (each part is about 6 or 7 minutes long)...
[youtubeif]stVmEmJ666M[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]1d0XEHahJ2Q[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]T_Fm3Zc7D8I[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]lpckijMVe3I[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]fEg6XEP-Cig[/youtubeif]
When I am not expert on something, and I don't have the time to invest in doing the hours and hours of research on that thing, I find it very valuable to watch two opposing parties (who have spent many hours and are experts in the area of that thing) debate each other. I do consider myself very capable of listening to these experts and deciding who seems to have a better handle on the info and who's conclusions I support.
Here for your enjoyment (or displeasure...) is a debate about 9/11 between the "Loose Change" filmmakers and the Popular Mechanics editors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths." This happened on the show Democracy Now, and seems to be a decent debate to help inform.
Divided into parts for easier viewing (each part is about 6 or 7 minutes long)...
[youtubeif]stVmEmJ666M[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]1d0XEHahJ2Q[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]T_Fm3Zc7D8I[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]lpckijMVe3I[/youtubeif]
[youtubeif]fEg6XEP-Cig[/youtubeif]
Last edited:
pentagon lawn.
the pentagon is a very secure area, no public access, no tours
They have NEVER been accused of transparency, whatever film & photos they have and are not sharing is in their control.planes being flown hard into structures will not leave the same debris field we're used to seeing of planes that have fallen to earth or crashed into a mountainside.
so that pic above to you looks plausible? that can't be more then about half a door? where are the twin engines? if that pic convinces you that what the gov claims happened happened, then there really is no point even debating.
what do the surviving family members have to do with what actually happened? no one is saying it's not a horrible idea, the point is when has that ever stopped them when they feel they have reason enough?
as for the twin towers, lets say it did happen from office furniture fires, where did all the steel and concrete disappear to? how did the buildings turn into so much dust? while i'm not an engineer or an architect, i have read what they have to say, and they destroy the theory of office furniture fires causing the building to fall into its own foot print at near to free fall speed. so no personally i'm no expert, but i have read what the experts say, 1700 pilots, architects and engineers all seem to agree on this point. look it up if you want to know the 100's reasons why it's not possible. if we could just demolish steel framed building with office furniture fires why would we pay demolition companies to do it in painstaking work. would be much easier just to set some fires and stand back to watch the building fall into it's own foot print turning most of the rubble to dust. perfect demolition really.
peace.
what do the surviving family members have to do with what actually happened? no one is saying it's not a horrible idea, the point is when has that ever stopped them when they feel they have reason enough?
as for the twin towers, lets say it did happen from office furniture fires, where did all the steel and concrete disappear to? how did the buildings turn into so much dust? while i'm not an engineer or an architect, i have read what they have to say, and they destroy the theory of office furniture fires causing the building to fall into its own foot print at near to free fall speed. so no personally i'm no expert, but i have read what the experts say, 1700 pilots, architects and engineers all seem to agree on this point. look it up if you want to know the 100's reasons why it's not possible. if we could just demolish steel framed building with office furniture fires why would we pay demolition companies to do it in painstaking work. would be much easier just to set some fires and stand back to watch the building fall into it's own foot print turning most of the rubble to dust. perfect demolition really.
peace.
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Why was there molten steel found among the wreckage...for weeks after the towers fell?
And why was the steel immediately shipped off to China to be melted down, before any investigators could even take a look at it?
There's thousands of architects and engineers who have signed petitions wanting to know the truth of what really happened! If they don't believe the official story, why would anyone else?
And why was the steel immediately shipped off to China to be melted down, before any investigators could even take a look at it?
There's thousands of architects and engineers who have signed petitions wanting to know the truth of what really happened! If they don't believe the official story, why would anyone else?
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