Are we ahead of the curve or fooling ourselves?

[Jericho Mile]

Got a guy here in town that sales fresh organic heirloom tomatoes. People buy em up for 3.50/lb. He really grows then around the corner from me in coco pots with GH 3 part nutes in a big greenhouse under lights. And they taste like hot house grown tomatoes. Hardly any flavor at all to em.

Locally grown organic tomatoes are cool and all....but then in most places...that makes them almighty seasonal. The rest of the year you're kind of fucked out of tomatoes...and right back on the trough...unless you're canning them.

Tomatoes are overrated anyway. Too acidic...even when sweet..they are still acidic.

greens are where it's at.

 

[tech1234]

Ok so to sum it up... a little from column A and a little from column B

 

[Coba]

So I am on some general gardening forums and I find that a lot of the accepted truths of the canna world are not accepted by the avid tomato/pumpkin ect growers.

Things like:
high P ferts to signal flower
Azomite
Any rock dust
beneficials in container plants
way more that I cant think of at the moment...

Do you guys think this is because we focus on every detail more closely because of the risks and money involved, or do you think we are over thinking/doing it? Some of the tomato experts have some amazing results with a lot less effort than we put in

Cannabis growing is ahead of the curve. ...lol and you are just talking a little bit of organics. you didn't mention flushing? what about R/DWC, ebb and flow tables? vert? 400 gallon smartpots? 1000 watt switchable ballasts? Panda film? tissue culture? DNA sequencing?

fruit and flowering plants association with high P ferts is really being debated. but, used to "signal" flower how do you mean? tomatoes and pumpkins are kind of like auto flowering. and cannabis uses this photoperiodism thing.

there isn't anything foolish about beneficial cover crops. planting and keeping a living, beneficial cover crop in between main crops is been a big ag practice for a long time. the right plants improves the soil. legumes like alfalfa and clover. don't know who incorporated that into container gardening. I'd say that doing it on a micro level like that is pretty cutting edge though.

i think the soil remineralization concept isn't new either. improving the poor soil has roots in Terra Preta here and here. bypassing the middleman and going straight for the Earth's rich innards ground into fine powdery dust kind of makes sense.

I think a lot of family owned big ag people get into it or are into it because it's tradition and they follow the same paradigm generation after generation doing what they were taught what works. deviating from the known means risk of loss of money. insurance doesn't cover science experiments or does it.

there is probably a great explanation why your friends do so well. compost really is great stuff.

I think it's communities like this that help with the innovation.

I think it's voices like yours that help to spread the information

the fooling ourselves piece is always up for grabs.hyped up fads come and go but the basics should just keep evolving.

 

[shithawk420]

Lol I live and breath ag businesses. its what I do.maybe I read it wrong but are you trying to say its easy compared to legal crops?.this is tough shit and its people like me who risked their ass to make sure half the fuking country got there shit.ain't no tomato farmer put there ass on the line like I did

 

[stoned-trout]

a lot of what we do and use has in fact come from other parts of the horticulture industry...yeehaw ...I learned about alfalfa from an old lady rose grower...due to greed and the value of our end product we are directly marketed to and lots of false claims are made to get your cash...

 

[PoweredByLove]

Lol I live and breath ag businesses. its what I do.maybe I read it wrong but are you trying to say its easy compared to legal crops?.this is tough shit and its people like me who risked their ass to make sure half the fuking country got there shit.ain't no tomato farmer put there ass on the line like I did

that's a different kinda tough than the op is talking about. it's just as easy to grow...no i take that back my weed is fine and my tomato is looking shitty right now. tomatoes might be a little harder or just as easy to grow as weed.

 

[stoned-trout]

marijuana is indeed easy to grow....even easy to grow excellent cannabis without much effort...heirloom tomatoes were harder for me commercially...cracking was an issue always and blossom end rot if not carefull....yeehaw

 

[soil margin]

Honestly I think it's a mix of both in regards to your question. The cannabis growing community is ahead of the curve when it comes to some of these topics, and we're probably fooling ourselves when it comes to some other topics.

For example I would say the average soil grower on average here at ICmag is much more aware of the need for a proper, well balanced soil mix that also can host a diverse group of beneficial microorganisms. Many farmers both casual and commercial often overlook doing things like this the absolutely most 'optimal' or 'perfect' way, because that can take too much money, planning, effort, etc. and they subsequently end up with subpar results as a consequence. Many cannabis growers are probably also a bit ahead of the curve when it comes to things like organic pest management and plant training.

We could be fooling ourselves though when it comes to any practices or techniques that are based on tradition, assumption, anecdotal reports, etc. rather than research and measured observation. I'm sure many of the older veteran growers can attest to how many growing tricks have fallen out of favor over the years because some smart farmer finally realized it was just superstition or bullshit.

In general though I would lean towards the "ahead of the curve" sentiment when it comes to the cannabis cultivation community. Very few other plant enthusiasts take the level of interest or have the amount of dedication that stoners do with their love for weed.

 

[Lester Beans]

I agree with Jericho on the farmers markets. That is one reason why I got into the business. I sell real organic heirlooms and high quality produce, grown by me and with zero chemicals. It is not easy. Not even close to easy. Cannabis is a dream compared to 20 acres of organic veggies. Everyday is an adventure in getting fucked by mother nature. I just try to play her game to the best of my ability and am grateful for anything I grow. I can what I can, freeze what I can, and hopefully avoid the GMO, chemical, shitty excuse for produce that is widely available. Do the best I can to provide people with quality.

As far as tomatoes go, 5$ pound for most except cherry and grape tomatoes, they are slightly cheaper. Sungolds sell so fast I am planting 4x the normal plot this year.

 

[Lapides]

Yo, I dont fucking get high from carrots or tomatoes no matter how much i dab them.

Fuck your argument.

edit: Wayyy ahead of the curve over here.

 

[Weird]

Even though prohibition was the catalyst to high costs and hidden operations, no other industry has adapted growing in so many different scenarios, so aggressively in such diversity with exposure to this kind of technology.

Cannabis growers have pushed the envelope in ways many traditional agricultural markets just couldn't afford to do. Most agricultural product isn't worth the electricity the average grower uses in growing.

Without prohibition much of the technique that has been developed under these conditions would not exist. Think about innovations such as LEDs, would that technology be advancing as aggressively if it where just bean and tomato farmers buying them?

People grossly underestimate what this plant has inspired.

 

[PoweredByLove]

i really wouldn't put the advancements in led technology on weed. i really wouldn't put the advancement of any lighting on weed, cept maybe those expensive ass sunmaster and growlux bulbs. most lighting is pushed forward by warehuoses, football stadiums, car manufacturers, home lighting ect. then weed growing is at the bottom of the list. we give ourselves way too much credit. this is a tiny tiny niche market we're a part of. we aren't really driving as much forward as we think we are.

 

[Weird]

LED use in horticulture is driven by the pot market, it is an example of how this agricultural market differs and pushes tech that would not be feasible in other sectors of the agricultural market.

 

[Jericho Mile]

I agree with Jericho on the farmers markets. That is one reason why I got into the business. I sell real organic heirlooms and high quality produce, grown by me and with zero chemicals. It is not easy. Not even close to easy. Cannabis is a dream compared to 20 acres of organic veggies. Everyday is an adventure in getting fucked by mother nature. I just try to play her game to the best of my ability and am grateful for anything I grow. I can what I can, freeze what I can, and hopefully avoid the GMO, chemical, shitty excuse for produce that is widely available. Do the best I can to provide people with quality.

As far as tomatoes go, 5$ pound for most except cherry and grape tomatoes, they are slightly cheaper. Sungolds sell so fast I am planting 4x the normal plot this year.

I'm at 4000'....pulling off an outstanding tomato harvest is difficult. I get frost until mid June most years...actually have had killing frosts in July and August. I grow them though. Started my seeds indoors a couple days ago...then into a hot house...then into the ground mid June. It's almost comical the efforts I go through.

I'm not a huge fan of tomatoes eating wise...but love growing big plants. They are fun....but yeah...gophers, worms, and hail balls the size of marbles are just a few more things nature throws at me every season.

I still have a lot of cans left. Had a record setting season last year...

I'm into cucumbers, peppers, garlic, and greens more than tomatoes. I do sell some of my garlic...just for shits and grins

I don't consider myself ahead of any curve.

 

[soil margin]

i really wouldn't put the advancements in led technology on weed. i really wouldn't put the advancement of any lighting on weed, cept maybe those expensive ass sunmaster and growlux bulbs. most lighting is pushed forward by warehuoses, football stadiums, car manufacturers, home lighting ect. then weed growing is at the bottom of the list. we give ourselves way too much credit. this is a tiny tiny niche market we're a part of. we aren't really driving as much forward as we think we are.

I have to disagree with at least some of this. The drive to grow cannabis indoors more cheaply and more efficiently has definitely changed other parts of the agriculture industry. They are still few and far between because it's only recently begun to be cost effective enough to be profitable, but we now have indoor lettuce farms that are growing with stacked LED lighting and hydroponics using growroom designs that were basically invented and perfected by cannabis growers over the past 25-30 years. Pretty hard to argue that we would have indoor urban farms like that popping up today without some of the ingenuity and drive for incredible efficiency/production that cannabis enthusiasts bring to the table.

 

[Jericho Mile]

I have to disagree with at least some of this. The drive to grow cannabis indoors more cheaply and more efficiently has definitely changed other parts of the agriculture industry. They are still few and far between because it's only recently begun to be cost effective enough to be profitable, but we now have indoor lettuce farms that are growing with stacked LED lighting and hydroponics using growroom designs that were basically invented and perfected by cannabis growers over the past 25-30 years. Pretty hard to argue that we would have indoor urban farms like that popping up today without some of the ingenuity and drive for incredible efficiency/production that cannabis enthusiasts bring to the table.

There are indoor lettuce farms? I don't see how that would be profitable or desirable.

 

[shithawk420]

Oy vey.commercial mushroom farms indoors has had way more impact than weed.

 

[Weird]

There are indoor lettuce farms? I don't see how that would be profitable or desirable.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...ces-a-day-in-led-lit-indoor-farm-9601844.html

Japanese plant experts produce 10,000 lettuce heads a day in LED-lit indoor farm

 

[shithawk420]

Man I was gonna say the Japanese are doing great things in greenhouses.they have these crazy bionic suits that help them carry heavy loads.like a smaller version of that machine Ripley used in Aliens

 

[RustyShcklfrd]

The Japanese have one of the coolest outdoor, hydroponic lettuce production facilities ever built the plants are in rows on vertical conveyors that keep everything in the light at the top, and when they cycle back to the bottom, they dip into a nute solution, the thins are like 75ft tall or something like that, but have like a 10x20 footprint. Im sure one of you knows what im talking about, I cant rememberwhere they are or what the company is.