Blackvelvet said:
I've bought straight potassium
What i have to do now?
Flush? Or spray diluited potassium?
Or flush one, and spray on the other?
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- Thread starter gramsci.antonio
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I've bought straight potassium
What i have to do now?
Flush? Or spray diluited potassium?
Or flush one, and spray on the other?
News:
First: why i did this (so you won't think i'm crazy
)
I did all of this because i was feeling frustrated. And i'm unexperienced. Yeah i did wrong dudes. But, really, i learned A LOT. I spent hundreds of hours surfing on cannabis growing comunity, and i though like i gained the minimum knowledge to allow me to grow.
Now that i'm doing it real i understand that growing is a whole different thing. I'm REALLY learning. And you all have been very kind to me, with your advices driving me through the path of knowledge.
ok
Now what i did:
At 11.30 i did a 2 liter (with RO water) solution of:
-3 ml of Canna A+3 ml of canna B
-a glass of tap water
-8 ml of cannazym
-2 ml of a solution of:
I watered my babies.
At 5.00 i came back and i checked the bottom water.
HOW AWFUL!
One was 1200 ppm@ph 7.2
Other (the one with worst issues, the biggest, the one i gave also some MG to the roots and not just by spray) 1480 ppm@ph 7.2
I immediately flushed with 2.4 liter of water, 1.2 liter for each pot of 25 liters, with:
-RO water
-8 ml of cannazym
-adjusted ph @ 5.8
The water out was: 800 [email protected] ph, 1000 [email protected] ph
I emptied the bottom shelf of both pots, so more water will came out and they will dry more by tomorrow, so if there's any need i'll flush again.
Oh, just one thing: today i recalibrated my PH/EC tester.
:'( :'( :'(
i'm raping my ladies
:'''(
What i have to do now?
Tell me please :'(
First: why i did this (so you won't think i'm crazy
)I did all of this because i was feeling frustrated. And i'm unexperienced. Yeah i did wrong dudes. But, really, i learned A LOT. I spent hundreds of hours surfing on cannabis growing comunity, and i though like i gained the minimum knowledge to allow me to grow.
Now that i'm doing it real i understand that growing is a whole different thing. I'm REALLY learning. And you all have been very kind to me, with your advices driving me through the path of knowledge.
ok
Now what i did:
At 11.30 i did a 2 liter (with RO water) solution of:
-3 ml of Canna A+3 ml of canna B
-a glass of tap water
-8 ml of cannazym
-2 ml of a solution of:
-Adjusted ph to 5.8
I watered my babies.
At 5.00 i came back and i checked the bottom water.
HOW AWFUL!
One was 1200 ppm@ph 7.2
Other (the one with worst issues, the biggest, the one i gave also some MG to the roots and not just by spray) 1480 ppm@ph 7.2
I immediately flushed with 2.4 liter of water, 1.2 liter for each pot of 25 liters, with:
-RO water
-8 ml of cannazym
-adjusted ph @ 5.8
The water out was: 800 [email protected] ph, 1000 [email protected] ph
I emptied the bottom shelf of both pots, so more water will came out and they will dry more by tomorrow, so if there's any need i'll flush again.
Oh, just one thing: today i recalibrated my PH/EC tester.
:'( :'( :'(
i'm raping my ladies
:'
''(What i have to do now?
Tell me please :'(
Why did you water them daily with sodium for 3 days ?
:jawdrop:
This entire thread reads as a classic case of over-tending the plant to death.
I'll say it again...
You need to flush the medium thoroughly, then give it a few days to dry out.
From that point forward, please stop sticking your finger in the soil and follow the lift the pot watering instructions link in my signature below. That 25 liter planter being watered as often as you've been doing IS a major factor in whats driven you to doing things like you've described above.
Are you using the pk 13/14?
G
Guest
That's a text book Potassium lockout. By lockout I mean, your pH is off and it's not allowing your plant to absorb the Potassium you're giving it with your nutrients. Your pH needs to be more constant. You seem to be letting it do whatever it wants.
If you really want to fix the problem, this will do it. I'm assuming you're growing in straight coco. If you are, you're not watering enough to carry out the old nutes/salts and it's building up in the coco. It won't do any good to give it more potassium as it's locked out and won't be used. By cranking up the nutes in an effort to get the plant to eat some of it, you'll only succeed in burning it with nitrogen unless it too gets locked out.
First, flush the pots. You haven't even come close to flushing them with the little amount of water you're putting in and calling it a flush. Get a 5 gallon jug and mix your tap water with RO at a 1:1 ratio. Measure the pH and adjust it to 5.8. Get it right on the money - 5.8 pH. Then pour the water into a watering can, the kind with multiple holes in the end so the water comes out in more of a sprinkling manner. You said you're growing in 25 liter pots but those don't look any larger than about 2 or 3 gallons to me. That would be 8-15 liters. Whatever their size, you need to flush with about twice to three times what the pot will hold. If 10 liters, flush with 20-30 liters.
Second, mix up some more water at 1:1 ro/tap. Add nutrients at about half the strength you've been feeding at and pH it all to 5.8. Exactly 5.8!!!!!!! It's very important that any water that touches the roots have a pH of 5.8. Coco really does ok between 5.2 and 6.2 according to the book, hehe. It also does a pretty good job of adjusting the pH itself and it seems to adjust it to 5.6 to 5.9. At least that's what it would like to do but you've been giving it water with a pH all over the place and the coco can't bring it back up.
Third, VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! Water at least once a day, every day and water the plants till you see water coming out of the bottom of the pots. Keep watering until you see about 15%-20% runoff out of the bottom of the pots. That means if you see water coming out of the bottom of the pot after 60 seconds, keep watering for another 9-12 seconds. By doing this every time you water, you'll keep salts from building up in your coco and your pH will be more stable. Whatever you do, remember to WATER EVERY DAY TILL YOU GET AT LEAST A 15%-20% RUNOFF!
You're using coco so watering techniques for soil won't work. Coco is not soil. Watering every day is a necessity when growing in coco. Coco will only hold onto so much water and it releases the rest out the bottom of the pot along with the residual nutrients left over from prior waterings. As I've said, coco is just like a sponge in that a sponge will only hold so much water and the rest drains out. As gravity pulls fresh water down into the pot, the new displaces the old, pushing it out of the bottom and when all that's going to drain out has drained out, all the millions of little spaces between the coco particles are filled with just the right amount of water, oxygen, and nutrients.
I love coco, hehehe.
If you'll go to this thread, I outlined the basics of growing in coco.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=74575
Please read it and use it. Stick to it for at least one grow. Then adjust it to suit yourself if you feel it necessary. It's simple and if you follow what I laid out, you won't get a pH problem again, or a nute problem, or a leaf problem, or.... And when something does get a little out of control, flush it away and start with fresh nutes. That easy. At certain times I'll find the ec a little high in my reservoir right after the timer has fed the plants. I'm not comfortable with the ec level being that high in the pot so I take plain RO water, pH it to 5.8 and begin pouring it into the reservoir with my meter hanging in the res water. By diluting the res water, I'll bring the ec down to a level it should be at. Then I'll hit the button and re-water. By doing this, I've just driven out the high ec water and replaced it with proper ec water. Had I let it go till next watering, I'd probably have picked up a little or a lot of burn. Any problem in coco, flush and re-feed.
After you fix the lockout, be sure to cut off the damaged leaves to remove that dead material. It will rot and could be a source for mold to start as it decomposes if you leave it with the plant. The damage to the leaves is permanent.
I hope this helps. Coco is so easy to grow in. You'll love it when you stop trying to make it more difficult. Drop the root stimulator now. Your plants are well enough developed that it's just one more thing the plants have to deal with and it's unnecessary at this point in your grow. Your plants are just a flush away from getting well. Any time in the next 10 minutes is good, lol.
I don't fancy myself anything special as far as growing is concerned. I do have an understanding of growing in coco though. I use it and I don't have the problems I see with other mediums. I've never even come close to losing a plant. Not trashing anybody's choices, just trying to help a guy who's trying to grow in coco.
Keep us posted and let us know what's happening with the grow.
Peace
If you really want to fix the problem, this will do it. I'm assuming you're growing in straight coco. If you are, you're not watering enough to carry out the old nutes/salts and it's building up in the coco. It won't do any good to give it more potassium as it's locked out and won't be used. By cranking up the nutes in an effort to get the plant to eat some of it, you'll only succeed in burning it with nitrogen unless it too gets locked out.
First, flush the pots. You haven't even come close to flushing them with the little amount of water you're putting in and calling it a flush. Get a 5 gallon jug and mix your tap water with RO at a 1:1 ratio. Measure the pH and adjust it to 5.8. Get it right on the money - 5.8 pH. Then pour the water into a watering can, the kind with multiple holes in the end so the water comes out in more of a sprinkling manner. You said you're growing in 25 liter pots but those don't look any larger than about 2 or 3 gallons to me. That would be 8-15 liters. Whatever their size, you need to flush with about twice to three times what the pot will hold. If 10 liters, flush with 20-30 liters.
Second, mix up some more water at 1:1 ro/tap. Add nutrients at about half the strength you've been feeding at and pH it all to 5.8. Exactly 5.8!!!!!!! It's very important that any water that touches the roots have a pH of 5.8. Coco really does ok between 5.2 and 6.2 according to the book, hehe. It also does a pretty good job of adjusting the pH itself and it seems to adjust it to 5.6 to 5.9. At least that's what it would like to do but you've been giving it water with a pH all over the place and the coco can't bring it back up.
Third, VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! Water at least once a day, every day and water the plants till you see water coming out of the bottom of the pots. Keep watering until you see about 15%-20% runoff out of the bottom of the pots. That means if you see water coming out of the bottom of the pot after 60 seconds, keep watering for another 9-12 seconds. By doing this every time you water, you'll keep salts from building up in your coco and your pH will be more stable. Whatever you do, remember to WATER EVERY DAY TILL YOU GET AT LEAST A 15%-20% RUNOFF!
You're using coco so watering techniques for soil won't work. Coco is not soil. Watering every day is a necessity when growing in coco. Coco will only hold onto so much water and it releases the rest out the bottom of the pot along with the residual nutrients left over from prior waterings. As I've said, coco is just like a sponge in that a sponge will only hold so much water and the rest drains out. As gravity pulls fresh water down into the pot, the new displaces the old, pushing it out of the bottom and when all that's going to drain out has drained out, all the millions of little spaces between the coco particles are filled with just the right amount of water, oxygen, and nutrients.
I love coco, hehehe.
If you'll go to this thread, I outlined the basics of growing in coco.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=74575
Please read it and use it. Stick to it for at least one grow. Then adjust it to suit yourself if you feel it necessary. It's simple and if you follow what I laid out, you won't get a pH problem again, or a nute problem, or a leaf problem, or.... And when something does get a little out of control, flush it away and start with fresh nutes. That easy. At certain times I'll find the ec a little high in my reservoir right after the timer has fed the plants. I'm not comfortable with the ec level being that high in the pot so I take plain RO water, pH it to 5.8 and begin pouring it into the reservoir with my meter hanging in the res water. By diluting the res water, I'll bring the ec down to a level it should be at. Then I'll hit the button and re-water. By doing this, I've just driven out the high ec water and replaced it with proper ec water. Had I let it go till next watering, I'd probably have picked up a little or a lot of burn. Any problem in coco, flush and re-feed.
After you fix the lockout, be sure to cut off the damaged leaves to remove that dead material. It will rot and could be a source for mold to start as it decomposes if you leave it with the plant. The damage to the leaves is permanent.
I hope this helps. Coco is so easy to grow in. You'll love it when you stop trying to make it more difficult. Drop the root stimulator now. Your plants are well enough developed that it's just one more thing the plants have to deal with and it's unnecessary at this point in your grow. Your plants are just a flush away from getting well. Any time in the next 10 minutes is good, lol.
I don't fancy myself anything special as far as growing is concerned. I do have an understanding of growing in coco though. I use it and I don't have the problems I see with other mediums. I've never even come close to losing a plant. Not trashing anybody's choices, just trying to help a guy who's trying to grow in coco.
Keep us posted and let us know what's happening with the grow.
Peace
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Nice post mojo, very informative 
Very interesting mojo, I'll have to give coco a closer look nowadays. The crutons kinda have peaked my interest of late. I had used coco coir several years ago in the past, but only as an addition to sunshine mix soilless, and not straight up. Ended up quitting it because the coir bricks I had been getting seemed to be causing sodium like problems and it proved to be sodium as many others back then had the same high sodium issues with the coir bricks.
I agree on the watering to run off, same with any decent draining soil or soilless, but it sure seems like he was hitting it way too often if its coir.
I see you're suggesting every day waterings though...
Isn't that only for the high drain cocos like the profit disks or the chunky or the crutons?
...Or has something changed about coco coir over the past couple years ?
Whats the good brand for crutons and chunky btw ?
tia,
10k
Very interesting mojo, I'll have to give coco a closer look nowadays. The crutons kinda have peaked my interest of late. I had used coco coir several years ago in the past, but only as an addition to sunshine mix soilless, and not straight up. Ended up quitting it because the coir bricks I had been getting seemed to be causing sodium like problems and it proved to be sodium as many others back then had the same high sodium issues with the coir bricks.
I agree on the watering to run off, same with any decent draining soil or soilless, but it sure seems like he was hitting it way too often if its coir.
I see you're suggesting every day waterings though...
Isn't that only for the high drain cocos like the profit disks or the chunky or the crutons?
...Or has something changed about coco coir over the past couple years ?
Whats the good brand for crutons and chunky btw ?
tia,
10k
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G
Guest
Respect to Blackvelvet, but you're going to fry those plants if you give them PK 13/14 at 6mL/gal. PK has three times the phosphorus and potassium that Canna part B has.
Here's my formula for avoiding PK burn - try it if you like it. Don't if you don't, lol.
I give PK during week 2 of flower and again the week before I start the pre-harvest flush. Here's how I've avoided burning the plant with the PK 13/14. Canna A and B are supposed to be given in equal amounts and then PK is supposed to be added on top of that. I burned my entire grow once and decided to do something different. While I'm giving PK, I stop giving part B. And I give PK at 2/3 what I was giving B at. If I was dosing B at 6mL/gal, I instead use 4mL/gal of PK.
Works for me.
Peace
Here's my formula for avoiding PK burn - try it if you like it. Don't if you don't, lol.
I give PK during week 2 of flower and again the week before I start the pre-harvest flush. Here's how I've avoided burning the plant with the PK 13/14. Canna A and B are supposed to be given in equal amounts and then PK is supposed to be added on top of that. I burned my entire grow once and decided to do something different. While I'm giving PK, I stop giving part B. And I give PK at 2/3 what I was giving B at. If I was dosing B at 6mL/gal, I instead use 4mL/gal of PK.
Works for me.
Peace
10k said:
Ok i'll flush.
I gave water with small ammount of sodium (3 mg/l) because my tap water is way TOO hard and my local grow shop gave me the hint of using bottled water.
Bad hint, i know. I won't listen to them again. Ever.
MynameStitch said:
no. A specific product.
Ok. Thanx all you guys.
It looks like a small equipe of experienced growers gathered around me to solve my case. I'm really learning a LOT, and i hope that all of us, while sharing our knowledge, are gaining something
Just one more thing before i continue: If you find my english poor or incorrect feel free to correct me.
Ok so what i did today:
I'm short on RO water. Tomorrow i'll go buy some more.
I had just 1 liter left, i mixed RO:TAP=3:1 and the final ppm was 120.
I then adjusted the ph to 5.8. It has been a bit hard to reach the exact value. I'm still not good @ adjusting ph, this is because my ph before swinged to much. I found easier to reach somewher beetwen 5.2 and 6.8. This time i had to use a bit of ph up/down, and infact at the end the PPM raised a bit, to 140 PPM.
I went out and let the water sit for 2 hours in a warm dark place. After the temp was the same of the room, but the ph raised a bit: to 6.0
I flushed anyhow, not adjusting, warried that i would have done more mistakes.
Unfortunatly it wasn't enough water (around 1.3 liters) to have any water exiting by the bottom.
Tomorrow i'll do better. I swear.
Oh: one more thing: I gave 5 ml/l of cannazym each flush, am i doing wrong? It's meant to help the plant, it's no fert. Or i should avoid it?
One bad news:
I was checking the soil to remove all the dead leaves and remove too much compromised leaves, and i found some little bugs. There was 6 of them. I killed all, but one of them has been kind enough to pose for me:
They are small, and can fly. I cannot tell for sure, but maybe their bottom is lighter in color, maybe green or white BUT I'M NOT SURE.
I've seen a pair of them previously but i didn't warried because mine is a wooden house close to many trees so it's usual to see bugs around.
I've checked throughly the leaves (bottom and up) for ANY sign of larvas or bugs, but i didn't find any. :'(
It looks like a small equipe of experienced growers gathered around me to solve my case. I'm really learning a LOT, and i hope that all of us, while sharing our knowledge, are gaining something
Just one more thing before i continue: If you find my english poor or incorrect feel free to correct me.
Ok so what i did today:
I'm short on RO water. Tomorrow i'll go buy some more.
I had just 1 liter left, i mixed RO:TAP=3:1 and the final ppm was 120.
I then adjusted the ph to 5.8. It has been a bit hard to reach the exact value. I'm still not good @ adjusting ph, this is because my ph before swinged to much. I found easier to reach somewher beetwen 5.2 and 6.8. This time i had to use a bit of ph up/down, and infact at the end the PPM raised a bit, to 140 PPM.
I went out and let the water sit for 2 hours in a warm dark place. After the temp was the same of the room, but the ph raised a bit: to 6.0
I flushed anyhow, not adjusting, warried that i would have done more mistakes.
Unfortunatly it wasn't enough water (around 1.3 liters) to have any water exiting by the bottom.
Tomorrow i'll do better. I swear.
Oh: one more thing: I gave 5 ml/l of cannazym each flush, am i doing wrong? It's meant to help the plant, it's no fert. Or i should avoid it?
One bad news:
I was checking the soil to remove all the dead leaves and remove too much compromised leaves, and i found some little bugs. There was 6 of them. I killed all, but one of them has been kind enough to pose for me:
They are small, and can fly. I cannot tell for sure, but maybe their bottom is lighter in color, maybe green or white BUT I'M NOT SURE.
I've seen a pair of them previously but i didn't warried because mine is a wooden house close to many trees so it's usual to see bugs around.
I've checked throughly the leaves (bottom and up) for ANY sign of larvas or bugs, but i didn't find any. :'(
One thing: when i checked them this morning i found they growth a LOT. Really.
How long i should wait before put them in flowering? they have been flowering for too long now.
How long i should wait before put them in flowering? they have been flowering for too long now.
GRam, I told you in your other thread that using sodium was bad for the plants, why after you say you stopped using that water, would you go back and use it again?
Yup, very informative post mojo very fine!
Yup, very informative post mojo very fine!
MynameStitch said:
no no: after you said me it was wrong, i quit using it!
But i've alredy flushed once, and ferted twice (or once? i don't remember)
you have fungus gnats from all your watering.
You need a product containing Bti to kill them. Safe and organic pest control.
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05556.html
You need a product containing Bti to kill them. Safe and organic pest control.
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05556.html
isn't it better if i kill the plants and start again?
is this something dangerous? how much harmful are those to my plants?
can i save the plants without too much loss?
is this something dangerous? how much harmful are those to my plants?
can i save the plants without too much loss?
Hell no, do not kill the plants they are doing fine, just a minor mishap of you messing up a bit and doing to many things for your plants......
you could easily save them plants dude, you would be wasting your time if you killed them..... like heady said about the fungus gants, he gave you the information on how to control and kill that pest for you.......
The larva from that fungus gnats steal nutrients from your plants, which you do not want and they can cause damage; kill them off while you got the chance now when they are in small numbers.
Also, if you can get "no pest strips" from a hardware store and hang them up near your plants you will be able to catch the fliers that fly around, you want this, this greatly helps control the population and there breeding, to kill them off listen to Heady Petey's advice he has given you.
you could easily save them plants dude, you would be wasting your time if you killed them..... like heady said about the fungus gants, he gave you the information on how to control and kill that pest for you.......
The larva from that fungus gnats steal nutrients from your plants, which you do not want and they can cause damage; kill them off while you got the chance now when they are in small numbers.
Also, if you can get "no pest strips" from a hardware store and hang them up near your plants you will be able to catch the fliers that fly around, you want this, this greatly helps control the population and there breeding, to kill them off listen to Heady Petey's advice he has given you.
MynameStitch said:
Ok!
It will be done by tomorrow!
one more thing:
can i switch them to 12/12?
can i switch them to 12/12?
WAit till you get them recovered first, then put them into 12/12, you do not want a stressed plant into 12/12, otherwise your plant can have a higher chance of turning into a male/female plant ( hermie)
then you end up having balls that open up and shoot pollen everywhere and your sinsema crop gets seeded!
then you end up having balls that open up and shoot pollen everywhere and your sinsema crop gets seeded!
G
Guest
10k said:Nice post mojo, very informative
Very interesting mojo, I'll have to give coco a closer look nowadays. The crutons kinda have peaked my interest of late. I had used coco coir several years ago in the past, but only as an addition to sunshine mix soilless, and not straight up. Ended up quitting it because the coir bricks I had been getting seemed to be causing sodium like problems and it proved to be sodium as many others back then had the same high sodium issues with the coir bricks.
I agree on the watering to run off, same with any decent draining soil or soilless, but it sure seems like he was hitting it way too often if its coir.
I see you're suggesting every day waterings though...
Isn't that only for the high drain cocos like the profit disks or the chunky or the crutons?
...Or has something changed about coco coir over the past couple years ?
Whats the good brand for crutons and chunky btw ?
tia,
10k
10k, sorry I didn't come back to even read my post, lol.
Watering every day seems to work best for any coco. I haven't used chunks or croûtons but I'd bet it's all the same.
It's all going to release what it doesn't need. The finer the coco in texture, naturally, the slower it's going to release it but it's not a deal killer if the coco takes 45 minutes to reach equilibrium instead of 30. Sand particles are pretty densely compacted and sand is an excellent material to use for drainage.
I watered once every other day when I first started growing in coco and I really had to fight a rising ec in the pots. I kept having to pour pHd water through them to flush. My wife started bitching - sorry - COMPLAINING, because I didn't have the plants in trays and the runoff water was draining underneath the wall to the closet and was coming out in the den. She's pretty narrow minded about streams running through the room. Anyway, watering every day, once a day fixed that. I now water twice a day and haven't been able to tell a difference in the plants but my reservoir is stable. That tells me the pots are too.
Peace
Edited:
10k, I've been trying to figure out why a person wouldn't have watered every day. If you use a soil/coco mix, and a lot of people do, then game's off. I don't have any experience with mixes and I don't think I need the excitement of trying it, lol. You didn't say that's what you were growing in, I know, but I can't think of another reason why somebody wouldn't water every day.
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