Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

[HempKat]

What U think of big facilities growing tones of cannabis each year to provide the dispensary, clubs or whatever? Seems like soon they will be plenty of those huge "medical marijuana" growers in the USA. Lets face it, soon or later it will probably be legalize in the whole USA. I have a feeling when this day come, a lot of mid-classes grower will regret!

It is obvious that big companies such as MERCK or MONSANTO will get in the game. They supported props 19 and it seems that a few of those big names are pushing to legalization. I can imagine their lobbies going to push new rules and laws, make it quiet impossible for the mid-classes people to be a "medical marijuana" grower. Seems like they are indeed going to make it legal, yes, but not for the mid-classes to profit from it!

Well it'll change for sure if it becomes legal. Whether it be Monsanto, Merck, Phillip Morris or just some well positioned grower with alot of capital to work with, someone is going to mass produce it if it becomes legal. So yeah the little guys will find their market drying up. The only ones that will hang in there and make money will be ones that can produce something the mass producers can't or won't. The bottomline though is people counting on that money better have a back up plan because it's not right to resist legalization and allow all those who are locked up to stay locked up simply because they grew a plant, just so someone else doing the same thing can keep making money to live on without having a regular job or so that someone can live beyond what their regular job allows.

 

[Kush_Master]

Just take a look at the wine market.
Is it dominated by a couple of big, evil corporations? Hell no there is enough room for small guys too. Personally I think its shamefull that growers out of all people are against legalization. Ppl in other markets cant rely on artifically inflated prices so why should we?

 

[HempKat]

Just because it would be legal wouldn't mean it would be legal for you to grow. Liquor is legal but you can't make it.

Sure you can, you just can't sell it.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

Just take a look at the wine market.
Is it dominated by a couple of big, evil corporations? Hell no there is enough room for small guys too. Personally I think its shamefull that growers out of all people are against legalization. Ppl in other markets cant rely on artifically inflated prices so why should we?

Alcohol and Marijuana cant be compared. Not because they use the word "legalization" that growers have to be fool blinded and jump on the trap. As a MJ lover, grower and believer, but I'm certainly not ready for a legalization at any prices.

I certainly don't want a Wall Street, Monsanto Marijuana corporation, just to end up with the right to smoke a "Corporation" spliff in the park. Foolish move IMO.

 

[GreenHills]

I think a lot of people that live in med states tend to forget what the rest of us are going through. Some of us are still out here growing behind enemy lines with very real consequences if we are caught. You won't hear me complaining about legalization that is for sure.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

Well it'll change for sure if it becomes legal. Whether it be Monsanto, Merck, Phillip Morris or just some well positioned grower with alot of capital to work with, someone is going to mass produce it if it becomes legal. So yeah the little guys will find their market drying up. The only ones that will hang in there and make money will be ones that can produce something the mass producers can't or won't. The bottomline though is people counting on that money better have a back up plan because it's not right to resist legalization and allow all those who are locked up to stay locked up simply because they grew a plant, just so someone else doing the same thing can keep making money to live on without having a regular job or so that someone can live beyond what their regular job allows.

Well what if their is a THC level regulation? And what if some strain become completly ilegal? Can't U imagine? People going to jail for selling chemdawg4 buds while Monsanto making millions selling their 10% med.

What the mid-classes people will sell to help rounding up their angles? Meth? Coke?

In those days of world wide economical criss with employment rising to the top, it is a very dangerous situation here. This should not only be seen as "yeah its going to be badass to have the right to smoke in a park". Of course its fun, but what about the: not so funny part of it? We barely here about it

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

I think a lot of people that live in med states tend to forget what the rest of us are going through. Some of us are still out here growing behind enemy lines with very real consequences if we are caught. You won't hear me complaining about legalization that is for sure.

Until U wake up in a legalization disaster world my friend. With a corporate MJ at 10% cannabinoids.

Ganja have and carry on a spirit too, not a surprise why it make think like a rebel

 

[Weird]

I would say don't hate the player hate the game. Why look at it like the glass is half empty, I see it half full. While one door closes another one opens. Meaning, there is oppurtunity to be found in almost any market condition, sure competeing with a large corporation already in place would suck but you have just as much chance of making it yourself if you do things properly.

The big wig companies will come in and and produce the basic shit, your Bud light lets call it. But it will be up to the small and medium sized facilitys to produce fire strains at a much lower production rate raising the price. No different then an expensive or fine wine. One small winery produces some amazing shit, and because their production is low, it sells high. Supply and demand. The key in this environment will be to possess and safe guard your own unique strains that are in high demand.

If you are complaining about not being able to run your commercial 2k-20k grow anymore and be competitve you need to think bigger. You should be able to build and manage a facility that can put out 100# a day if need be to be competitive. Draw up a business plan, prove your worth, find investors, build it out, run it, and fail or succeed. Business managment will be the make it or break it. So either you are ready to step things up to a professional level and work hard and play with the big boys or you take your ball and go home.

The same thing happened in our State when medical hit, at first the prices were AWESOME and then it got flooded and the price went down and the little guys who didn't have shit dialed in to begin with are long gone.

Personally I see oppurtunity, I could manage a very large operation and alot of people properly to produce consistent quality. People will get chewed up and spit out, but it will be due to their lack of vision, drive, and abilty to put it all together and consistently and successfully manage a real opertaion and not a closet or basement.

im all about relativity and at a cursory glance it seems like sound logic but there is a huge deficit in your thought process and ill explain why

the value of black market marijuana has brought to lower and middle class demographics (understand before there was any "legality" it was in just about every states top 10 agricultural products) will be shifted to the pockets of those who have capital resource already

now if you have been following the global drug (or regional for that matter) war for a few decades you may have uncovered an "inconvenient truth" the turth being that these "black market" economies are a part of the aggregate economies, and represent at least 10 percent and shifting these markets.

In the past the reason they never strove to "eliminate" these black markets is because the collapse of a 10 percent share of an economies GNP causes recession/depression

so here a market of small localized lower and middle class people have a viable income and could potentially maintain it in a legal landscape

BUT, the potential of revenue is so great that a suffering populace of prohibition growers should sacrifice it all during an illegal climate (civil disobedience) only to have the rights passed off to those with more money and resource

we are taking a safe and natural resources the lower and middle class have to make a decent living (which was a reflection of a corrupt bureaucracy) and putting it in the hands of state feds and big corporations

i don't see any logic in making marijuana the next big corporate commodity like big tobacco

almost all of the discoveries we have made regarding marijuana are because there were people illegally growing it

scaling cultivation out of the hands of the general public an into the hands of big business is exactly how to undermine the already decreasing opportunities of the middle and lower class to an upper class that already has unfair advantage

fuck any business model that takes cultivation from the people an puts it into the hands of the privileged few

funny enough though i live in a non med state and the legal weed flooding our boarders sucks as bad as beasters did in the 90s

in the end its no threat to me, its never been a threat to me

but to all my fellow Americans whose quality of life hinges on growing meds or taking them, id prefer a future were they can all continue to thrive

we are evolved enough that we dont have to let every one of our societies subscribe to the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest

that mantra is for the marginally above average who can't envision success without someone else failing

there is enough opportunity for the average American to let it continue to empower the financial demographics that it does, why not keep it that way?

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

.... The same thing happened in our State when medical hit, at first the prices were AWESOME and then it got flooded and the price went down and the little guys who didn't have shit dialed in to begin with are long gone. ....

In a selfish individual point of view I will agree with U. But, lets think a bit as a group of people living and sharing the same land.

If I push ur argument a bit further, than sure, its a disaster. U saying that, already with a state med type of legalization, small growers are pushed aside. I can only imagine with a federal legalization and big corporation in the game! Will be a huge drama for those who really love the plant.

Even the best of us with shit dialed will be pushed by way bigger sharks than what they could imagine.

 

[Hoover_lungz]

There will always be a market for carnoissuer homegrown buds.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

There will always be a market for carnoissuer homegrown buds.

Hey jah sup bro!

What if not? What if it become illegal to grow home? I can imagine them showing in the news houses that have burned down due to a basement grow? wow if a baby die in it its over for legal home grow And we back to square one, but now we have to fight big corporation and pigslol

 

[greenpinky]

Lol well the way I look at it.its dam near free to plant a seed into the ground and water it for a few months, im guessing maybe $10, if the big cash cropping people can sell me 2 oz's of good outdoor for that cheep then we will be in trouble... untill then keep overgrowing the goverment... they cant touch us... and u can bet there will be no organics coming from the big time growers.just nasty chem.im thinking its time to get into additives and soil..mad demand

 

[komboloi]

The average tobacco plot in the U.S. is only about 13 acres. Big Tobacco never created mega-farms.

There is plenty of home distilling, home beer-making, home wine-making, craft distilling, craft beer-making, and boutique wine.

This idea that legalization would mean the end of high end weed grown by connoisseurs on a small scale has no basis. And this notion that big scary mega-corporations will force us all to smoke the cannabis equivalent of Budweiser is just bunk.

These arguments are put forward by cash croppers who see lower prices resulting from legalization. The war on drugs is the cash cropper's best friend: an artificial price support.

Which seems pretty selfish to me. I don't think MMJ patients should have to pay artificially high prices, and I don't think people should have to go to jail, just to support the cash cropper's artificially high prices.

If you're interest in growing weed is to just make a profit, you and Monsanto have a lot in common. In that world, you'd better understand how to survive in a competitive environment. That means competing on either price, quality, service, or something that justifies prices higher than Budweiser prices. It can be done.

If all you have is a generic commodity, the price is going to stabilize somewhere just above the cost of production. But if you can add something special (25% THC), you can charge more.

But this idea that we should oppose legalization of cannabis because it would open the gates for cheap commercially farmed weed too is just nuts.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

The average tobacco plot in the U.S. is only about 13 acres. Big Tobacco never created mega-farms.

There is plenty of home distilling, home beer-making, home wine-making, craft distilling, craft beer-making, and boutique wine.

This idea that legalization would mean the end of high end weed grown by connoisseurs on a small scale has no basis. And this notion that big scary mega-corporations will force us all to smoke the cannabis equivalent of Budweiser is just bunk.

These arguments are put forward by cash croppers who see lower prices resulting from legalization. The war on drugs is the cash cropper's best friend: an artificial price support.

Which seems pretty selfish to me. I don't think MMJ patients should have to pay artificially high prices, and I don't think people should have to go to jail, just to support the cash cropper's artificially high prices.

If you're interest in growing weed is to just make a profit, you and Monsanto have a lot in common. In that world, you'd better understand how to survive in a competitive environment. That means competing on either price, quality, service, or something that justifies prices higher than Budweiser prices. It can be done.

If all you have is a generic commodity, the price is going to stabilize somewhere just above the cost of production. But if you can add something special (25% THC), you can charge more.

But this idea that we should oppose legalization of cannabis because it would open the gates for cheap commercially farmed weed too is just nuts.

I don't know why people keep comparing apple and oranges Alcohol and Hemp is not the same thing at all! Alcohol give cancer, hemp cure cancer, alcohol fool people, Hemp might fool a few, but for the most part it make u a better thinker.

U think the gov' doesn't know that ? I bet they do...

 

[Hoover_lungz]

Hey jah sup bro!

What if not? What if it become illegal to grow home? I can imagine them showing in the news houses that have burned down due to a basement grow? wow if a baby die in it its over for legal home grow And we back to square one, but now we have to fight big corporation and pigslol

The facts are my friend that cannabis is Illegal in most parts of the World and still we have growers growing cannabis Illegally. I dont think big Comericial companies can kill the cannabis market as the cannabis they will be selling will be comercial low thc schwag.

In the UK we have comerciall Vietnamese/Import packages but i see Carnoissuer home grown buds go for much more money and there is a much more higher demand for Quality headstash weed than comerciall schwag these days.

The only growers that would suffer from this is the ones who cant grow good weed. I think cannabis should priced on quality not quantity.

 

[hush]

The facts are my friend that cannabis is Illegal in most parts of the World and still we have growers growing cannabis Illegally. I dont think big Comericial companies can kill the cannabis market as the cannabis they will be selling will be comercial low thc schwag.
...

The only growers that would suffer from this is the ones who cant grow good weed.

That was the most winning-est response. And 100% true. No one here should be threatened by Marlboro's business plan, unless your own plan is very similar to theirs, thus actually making them your competition... In which case, shame on you!! Lol

 

[Alone]

Being legalized doesnt change the market what-so-ever. Lets face the truth.
Only about 5% of marijuana smokers actually get a doctors script for it.
The other 95% still have to get it somewhere other than a dispencery.
There are so many strains out today, that if the dispencery doesnt have what they like, they will get it from the basement grower who has there favorite strain. $10 cheaper for an 1/8th too.

Even if it was full blown legal... where everyone could just grow it anywhere and everywhere...there are still people who just cant grow. They just suck so bad at it that they still have to buy it from someone else.
Also...it takes so many months to grow it to maturity, then so many months to cure it properly, that we would still have to get it from someone while ours is growing/curing.

The market will always be there regardless if its legal or not. Dont worry people who depend on this wonderfull, God given plant, to pay there bills. The plant will always provide for you and your family. No worries.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

The average tobacco plot in the U.S. is only about 13 acres. Big Tobacco never created mega-farms.

They never had to. A dozen plants will get me through the year. What the government did was inflate the price and cap how much tobacco growers grew.

There is plenty of home distilling, home beer-making, home wine-making, craft distilling, craft beer-making, and boutique wine.

I don't know where home distilling is legal, but I'm sure it happens. There is most certainly a limit on how much you can brew in your own home...
and no one could come close to supplying anybody but themselves and a couple others at best.

This idea that legalization would mean the end of high end weed grown by connoisseurs on a small scale has no basis.

I don't know where you got that notion but I agree.

And this notion that big scary mega-corporations will force us all to smoke the cannabis equivalent of Budweiser is just bunk.

I strongly disagree. You even used the name Budweiser as a (perfect) example.

These arguments are put forward by cash croppers who see lower prices resulting from legalization. The war on drugs is the cash cropper's best friend: an artificial price support.

I was issuing my concerns from a small grower who doesn't want my grandchildren to smoke Budweiser. Don't you know when it's legal there will still be artificial price supports?

Which seems pretty selfish to me. I don't think MMJ patients should have to pay artificially high prices, and I don't think people should have to go to jail, just to support the cash cropper's artificially high prices.

But it's too late. This is a capitalist society in which the demand is there and the prices are already being paid hand over fist. I certainly agree that people shouldn't have to go to jail.
I also think that legal farmers could set their prices like dairy farmers... not to mention the government involvement and what that could do to prices as well. I'm not sure it's wouldn't be more expensive.

If you're interest in growing weed is to just make a profit, you and Monsanto have a lot in common. In that world, you'd better understand how to survive in a competitive environment. That means competing on either price, quality, service, or something that justifies prices higher than Budweiser prices. It can be done.

If all you have is a generic commodity, the price is going to stabilize somewhere just above the cost of production. But if you can add something special (25% THC), you can charge more.

I'm thinking that most people begin to drink schwag beer because it's cheaper. They eventually train themselves to not recognize real beer flavor and become convinced that Bud Light is ALL that they can drink.
I can see the same thing happening over a few decades of schwag herb.

But this idea that we should oppose legalization of cannabis because it would open the gates for cheap commercially farmed weed too is just nuts.

I'm saying we shouldn't let the corporations run amok with stupidity in a game that until soon is in the hands of those that love it.

I'll tell you what nuts is: Building a 170,000 square foot facility to grow cannabis and not even putting a glass roof on it! "Screw that sun we have 1K bulbs!"
Greed blinds intelligence right out of the game.

I'm saying that legal is great, now let's do it in a way that won't totally screw the plant, the grower, or the smoker.

 

[skull and roses]

im all about relativity and at a cursory glance it seems like sound logic but there is a huge deficit in your thought process and ill explain why

the value of black market marijuana has brought to lower and middle class demographics (understand before there was any "legality" it was in just about every states top 10 agricultural products) will be shifted to the pockets of those who have capital resource already

now if you have been following the global drug (or regional for that matter) war for a few decades you may have uncovered an "inconvenient truth" the turth being that these "black market" economies are a part of the aggregate economies, and represent at least 10 percent and shifting these markets.

In the past the reason they never strove to "eliminate" these black markets is because the collapse of a 10 percent share of an economies GNP causes recession/depression

so here a market of small localized lower and middle class people have a viable income and could potentially maintain it in a legal landscape

BUT, the potential of revenue is so great that a suffering populace of prohibition growers should sacrifice it all during an illegal climate (civil disobedience) only to have the rights passed off to those with more money and resource

we are taking a safe and natural resources the lower and middle class have to make a decent living (which was a reflection of a corrupt bureaucracy) and putting it in the hands of state feds and big corporations

i don't see any logic in making marijuana the next big corporate commodity like big tobacco

almost all of the discoveries we have made regarding marijuana are because there were people illegally growing it

scaling cultivation out of the hands of the general public an into the hands of big business is exactly how to undermine the already decreasing opportunities of the middle and lower class to an upper class that already has unfair advantage

fuck any business model that takes cultivation from the people an puts it into the hands of the privileged few

funny enough though i live in a non med state and the legal weed flooding our boarders sucks as bad as beasters did in the 90s

in the end its no threat to me, its never been a threat to me

but to all my fellow Americans whose quality of life hinges on growing meds or taking them, id prefer a future were they can all continue to thrive

we are evolved enough that we dont have to let every one of our societies subscribe to the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest

that mantra is for the marginally above average who can't envision success without someone else failing

there is enough opportunity for the average American to let it continue to empower the financial demographics that it does, why not keep it that way?

This is my sentiments exactly!!! Very well said.

 

[Weird]

The average tobacco plot in the U.S. is only about 13 acres. Big Tobacco never created mega-farms.

i dont know too many lower or middle class Americans who can pony up for 15 acres or run multiple farm

There is plenty of home distilling, home beer-making, home wine-making, craft distilling, craft beer-making, and boutique wine.

This idea that legalization would mean the end of high end weed grown by connoisseurs on a small scale has no basis. And this notion that big scary mega-corporations will force us all to smoke the cannabis equivalent of Budweiser is just bunk.

no one is saying its legalization, its the method of legalization that enables anyone with deep pockets to jump in an take away market share from an existing market that feeds a struggle middle and lower class

personally it doesn't matter to me, im not much of a capitalist myself but in a government that that regulates a "free" market capitalism for the individual i think rights of the individual should be preserved

you know the usa government holds patents for thc and its application?

These arguments are put forward by cash croppers who see lower prices resulting from legalization. The war on drugs is the cash cropper's best friend: an artificial price support.

this isnt about equal opportunity and scalable business perceptions

this is about the shift of revenue from one market segment to another plain and simple

people should be free to cultivate fro personal use and there should be state level caretaker models that allow for a fair system that keeps the distribution of revenue in the same market segments while making available locally produced lower cost high quality medications

marijuana can be legalized without fully commercializing it

Which seems pretty selfish to me. I don't think MMJ patients should have to pay artificially high prices, and I don't think people should have to go to jail, just to support the cash cropper's artificially high prices.

they shouldn't pay artificially high price, they should be able to be self sufficient or choose a caregiver

the model for business that can produce and caregiver shouldn't be biased by the size of ones operating capital or corporate holdings

ti will be another American institution whored out so corporate coffers can fill in a greater proportion than those of the general populace

you know what sounds greedy? throwing under the bus the same people who kept marijuana around so you could know how good it is

how about all the people doing time so we could have this plant?

i guess they dont deserve the same equality either?

If you're interest in growing weed is to just make a profit, you and Monsanto have a lot in common. In that world, you'd better understand how to survive in a competitive environment. That means competing on either price, quality, service, or something that justifies prices higher than Budweiser prices. It can be done.

hitler and ghandi both breath air and drank water

didn't make them the same

as far as a fair market setting prices? ohhh i wholeheartedly agree but when you add marijuana to a corporate business plan its no longer a fair marker product especially when it will shift income from an existing low and middle class segments to upper class segments

this is one of the problem with commercializing a medicine that is also a commodity in a biased marketplace

if it was truly free market we wouldn't be having this conversation cause there would be enough legal money to be made people wouldn't have to subsidize with a black market income in the first place

black markets offset the lack of wealth redistributed by the "1%" who are a strong bias in controlling the markets

If all you have is a generic commodity, the price is going to stabilize somewhere just above the cost of production. But if you can add something special (25% THC), you can charge more.

its more than a generic commodity, its more than a medicine, its more than a fiber, fuel or food.

i think the small American cultivator at this point feels there is a validity to the medicinal property of marijuana

since its a scheduled drug federally this must sill be part of the considerations

if in legal states you can go to jail for being under its influence and driving its not a simple commodity and shouldn't be considered one

it is going to be regulated regardless so the threat of illegality isn't removed its replaced with regulated compliance at a cost in lieu of illegality

But this idea that we should oppose legalization of cannabis because it would open the gates for cheap commercially farmed weed too is just nuts.

the lower nutritional value of cheap commercial foods are negatively effecting the health of the populace and the farming practices are devastating ecosystems

it has also reduced the profit to a point where the average small family farm cannot exist without some competitive advantages

in the end the quality is reduced so a very small few can achieve an increased profit

if we let marijuana follow the same path we will achieve the same results

weed will go the way of montasano and the mom and pop farmer will be pushed out of existence