Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

[mean mr.mustard]

You seem to think by your previous statements that the government gives big corporations whatever they want whenever they want. So either that's not true or big corporations aren't really interested in taking over the emerging marijuana market. If they were and government kowtowed to them the way you seem to think then like I said marijuana would be legal nationwide already


Geez you can't even keep it straight in your own mind can you? We weren't debating whether or not corporations kowtow to government but rather whether government kowtows to corporations. The only thing corporations kowtow to is money..

So lobbyists serve no purpose? I love how it's all or nothing with you.

Really? You're sure of this? That's rather bizarre because just yesterday you were posting that they are highly motivated to bust people for weed to fill prisons. It's getting rather tedious trying to debate something with someone who changes his mind so frequently and from so far from one end of the spectrum to the other. Nobody ever said law enforcement was uninterested in cannabis convictions just that they aren't as across the board gung ho about it as you suggested previously.

I'm glad to see sarcasm is not lost on you.

Maybe that's your problem, this particular topic wasn't a matter of math but rather that of history. Breweries were already being established in the US before Adolphus Busch was born and certainly long before he teamed up with his father in law Eberhard Anheuser to form the Anheuser-Busch Company. Also according to the home brewers association website "During North America’s colonial period, homebrewing was a common household task" home brewing didn't become illegal until prohibition in 1919. Also according to the Homebrewers Association it was more of an oversight then anything else that kept homebrewing illegal until the 70's when Cater corrected that oversight. After that it went so far in the other direction that "Representative David Skaggs of Colorado announced May 7th as National Homebrew Day before Congress on Monday, May 2, 1988". Now if you want to crunch numbers you might try crunching the numbers of how much beer production in major corporate breweries has declined now that micro brews and home brewing is on the rise. Here's a tidbit from a story I was just reading the other day "While sales of specialty, craft, and small-market beers have improved dramatically, many of the traditional, full-calorie beers that were once the staples of most breweries have fallen behind. In the five years ending in 2011, sales of Budweiser, which was once the top-selling beer in the country for years, have fallen by 7 million barrels. Sales of Michelob are down more than 70%

I'm glad you've done some research. Now you know Inbev is bigger than ever and you're still wrong.

No maybe's about it, I don't think moonshine is illegal due to just methanol. Sure it factors in but distribution of moonshine does hit the government in it's tax revenues in a meaningful enough way to get their notice. Unlike the lose of tax revenue from one person making their own and not buying taxed liquor.

That's funny I could swear that was your stance.. Oh well it's good to see youve come around. It is still illegal though right?

Well break out your history books then son. I've been using mine.

I'm not your son and history books don't count if you wrote them.

No I know where I am but you ask your question to open endedly. Wrong from who's perspective and distribute to who? Personally I think growers of marijuana should distrubute marijuana just like I think farmers should distribute the foods they grow. However marijuana is not really the same thing as fruits and vegtables so it should not be distributed to just anyone. Unfortunately that attitude isn't shared by the vast majority of people that distribute marijuana. Many of them have no problems selling it to children just so long as the children can fork over the right amount of cash. Perhaps if far fewer growers thought selling to minors was okay we might be further along in ending prohibition then we are now? Outside of children I have no problem with growers selling their crops unless of course they are selfish and assinine enough to suggest that people should still be thrown in prison for marijuana just so they can keep justifying prices far greater then the trouble of growing it should net them.

So you don't have a problem with people selling their wares, and you don't have a problem with them getting arrested for it either?

I've read what you've written but you seem to be operating under the dellusion that just because you wrote it, then it is so. I however don't suffer from that dellusion.

Yes you do... it's just backasswards from mine.

Heroes? Really? Well I guess that helps you justifying being in favor of worrying more about who makes money from weed then who gets locked up for enjoying it?

Really. Heroes.

If I had ignored your statements I wouldn't be replying to them now would I brainiac? If you really feel your intention has been misunderstood perhaps you should try restating it in a different way to make it clearer rather then just repeating yourself and claiming to be misunderstood when people don't agree with you?

I have tried and tried. You can't fix stupid. It's in black and white various ways.

Your logic doesn't follow since I'm not the one suggesting you are wrong simply because I disagree.

Are you sure? It doesn't seem that way to me at all.

What still counts? Nothing in the quote you've attached this statement to has anything to do with something counting or not counting. The statement you quote is me saying just because you can think of people that got sent to prison for selling or growing weed does not equal all law enforcement being so determined to send people to prison for weed everywhere in the country. I mean if your belief was so accurate then how do you account for L.E.A.P. (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition) Or is it your position that Law enforcement is so determined to lock people up that they have formed a group fighting against the laws that allow them to lock people up for marijuana?

I reallly hope you aren't dense enough to think that there aren't more members of the DEA than LEAP.

Oh I see, you're splitting hairs over deserve as in is it right or deserve because they were foolish in how they go about it? No I don't feel people deserve to go to jail for growing pot or selling it although I do take issue with people selling it to children whoose mids are still developing and may not be ready to handle how marijuana effects them. Now if someone is aware growing is illegal but they say "screw the laws I'm going to do what I want, when I want and how I want" and that disregard allows them to be caught and busted then yes they do deserve it, they all but asked the cops to bust them if they act that way. You might as well ask if a person deserves to be arrested for murder if they shoot someone for no particular reason while a cop is standing there watching them do it. I say yes they do.

Oh so you do get it. You could have saved us both a lot of time by saying "Yes I think they deserve it."

But beat around the bush first... it's oh so much fun.

Disagree all you like but you and MLK are daft if you think breaking a law you feel unjust won't jeapordize your freedom. Unfortunately for you MLK was not that naieve then again he also wasnt talking about growing marijuana he was talking about laws that treat people differently based on skin color.

Hmmm.... I didn't know he was speaking strictly on civil disobedience regarding civil rights. It sounds like he meant exactly what he said.

Did he come to you in a dream and tell you this?

You are daft if you think I believe my freedom isn't in jeopardy right now.

It's not getting search warrants based on nothing but electrical usage. First of all they aren't checking electrical usage. If they ever become aware of electrical usage it's usually because the electric company has tipped them off which the electric company typically doesn't do if you keep current with your bill. The exception would be if people are stealing electricity but then they don't need a search warrant because stealing electricity is a crime in and of itself. Anyway if an electric company gives the cops such a tip that someone is using more electricity then would be deemed normal that in and of itself is not enough to justify a judge granting them a search warrant. They would have to find other evidence first that supports the suspicion that a grow is taking place. If a person is being careful though then the cops won't find that evidence and therefore they'll never get that warrant and they won't be able to send that person using too much electricity to jail.

Cops subpoena electrical usage to help with other factors to get a search warrant. It happens whether or not you are aware of it.

Really? You're sure of that? I've been to jail for selling marijuana and yet I'm not backing you up. I'm inclined to believe those people who are in prison for marijuana are more likely to come to the same conclusion as me that they would much rather it just be illegal and take the chance that a corporation might take control of the market. If they're like me and they grow they'll likely conclude like me that they would rather have it be legal and then they could still grow better weed then Monsanto and if they wanted to sell the risks would be no different then they are now but they'd have way more customers and now those customers wouldn't be snitching on them because the cops wouldn't be arresting them for possesion.

Really. The only reason you're not in agreement is because you've dug yourself in and are convincing yourself you deserved to go to jail.

No, it's not my future because I learned my lesson and I don't sell. I have serious doubts anything remotely like your Monsanto nightmare will come to pass but even if it does it won't matter because in all my years of growing I've never depended on store bought seed and I have a network of friend who also have never depended on store bought seed so we won't be living in fear that the big evil Monsanto monster under your bed will tamper with our genetics in any way shape or form. So sorry the best I can offer you is that I agree to disagree, me with you and you with me.

It is your future. We all share it. What it is is yet to be determined but unless one of us is about to kick the bucket we will see it together.

Don't apologize because you disagree.

It's been fun chatting pop.

I'm going to go drink some brainiac juice

 

[mean mr.mustard]

but alas they are.
i doubt any of them would say "im sure glad i went to prison and kept monsanto from growing weed"
maybe they do but it seems less than likely...
more likely is the person sitting in prison disagrees that they need to be there to "protect" the herb from overactive imaginations of paranoid stoners oops i mean monsanto...

How many farmers have been taken to court by this ghost?

How many lawsuits has this nonexistent threat won?

How many lives have been ruined by this nonthreatening friend of the farmer?

Overactive imagination my ass. Read up on it.

If you aren't worried then you work for them.

 

[Stoner4Life]

big question is will the thousands of basement growers force the industrialists out of the weed business.......

 

[bombadil.360]

big question is will the thousands of basement growers force the industrialists out of the weed business.......

only if they organize and pull their resources together and become a faceless corporation themselves.

it needs to have a cool hippie name though, something like Clear Green Peaceful Dolphin Farmer Inc.

together we stand, divided we fall, and all that jazz...

it's the same with the occupy crowd, only good to protest, but when it comes down to do real work, organizing, investing, taking risks in business development, well, not that great.

in that aspect, the industrialists are light years ahead.

peace!

 

[bombadil.360]

huarmiquilla, you bring an excellent point, which sometimes we forget since we are so focused on the medical / entheogenic aspects of cannabis; which is all the other positive and greatly beneficial qualities that Cannabis has.

textiles, papers, bio-plastics, bio-fuels. all of which can be produced with great potential and quality from easily cultivated Cannabis.

Will people with access to many different cultivars get together to form some sort of Society for the Conservation of Cannabis Cultivars? and properly and legally establish such institution? or is everyone too busy?

why don't the seed vendors without seed stock but with tons of t-shirts for sale did not even make their t-shirts out of hemp textiles and instead opted for cotton?

etc... etc... etc...

 

[huarmiquilla]

howdy

how you do?

respect bombadil.360

thank you to read

am keen to you thinks similar

with respect to cannabis within legal am not keen to legal, am keen to freedom

within moments legal to include such poor thinks such slavery, perhap indeed for rebuke such thinks at when unjust

similar am agree to MLK and mean mr.mustard

freedom to cannabis with not limit

such to include big companie, with respect to such with not monopoly not can compete to love and positive energy

chant down babylon

positive vibrations

 

[Stoner4Life]

I think the big weed industrialists would go bankrupt chasing hundreds of (or thousands over time) growers through the court system. the civil court system is also notoriously slow which would benefit the small guy.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

only if they organize and pull their resources together and become a faceless corporation themselves.

it needs to have a cool hippie name though, something like Clear Green Peaceful Dolphin Farmer Inc.

together we stand, divided we fall, and all that jazz...

it's the same with the occupy crowd, only good to protest, but when it comes down to do real work, organizing, investing, taking risks in business development, well, not that great.

in that aspect, the industrialists are light years ahead.

peace!

I'm right with you there! I'm more than willing to donate my time... it's just a question of getting something substantial started.

The whole thing seems to be easier to hand to large companies that can already handle the market with the infrastructure to match.

That's why I'm hoping someone can clear me up on whether or not it's possible to get around it.

And I may point to that divided we fall thing but how many people do you really think care? Enough to compete with big industry?

I like to think so but it's hard to hope sometimes.

The dream shall never die!

We just need a leader bean!

 

[sprinkl]

I think the big weed industrialists would go bankrupt chasing hundreds of (or thousands over time) growers through the court system. the civil court system is also notoriously slow which would benefit the small guy.

They could do the same as with many industry.
The big players try to push the small ones out by controlling every part of the chain which mean extra costs, and paying a minimum of taxes while the small entrepreneur pays a buttload.

I see the same happening for people that want to grow legally. It will probably only be legal to grow cannabis as a "medicine" in the first place. Probably every human on earth including psychotic and other mentally disturbed would be able to get a script for it for whatever reason, but you'd need to go to yearly doctor's appointments. Those people's health insurances might go up the same way they do for obese people and tobacco smokers. If you were to start a grow op you would need a certificate or degree for which you would need costly lessons. You would need goverment-approved equipment and nutrients so you could grow clean medicine. The strains you grow would have to be approved strains for medical use, maybe even GM'ed so you need to buy seeds over and over again. After the medicine is produced you would need to order several lab tests testing for dna, drug contents, bacteria etc. Then when you sell the medicine to what's next in the chain you'll be paying what, 30% income taxes to the government?

I could be just paranoid and it could be a load of fun, but I do believe if it becomes legal it will only be because of financial reasons, not because of it being a harmless plant. Which can be used for a thousand of good reasons, like saving the environment and making a lot of industries obsolete, that might very likely be why it was made illegal in the first place.

 

[opiumo]

Lets say it hit legal, there will be million ways of consulting people that wanna grow theyr own weed thats just too lazy to put the effort and time to learn the hard way. Upper-middle class will bring it back to the times where folks who could afford had gardeners whom did took care of tulips and all.

It will suck for many, and this is a fact i know. But still man, the little man have nothing to say against big corps and that just dont apply to americns but on every other continent too.

 

[skull and roses]

How about a ICMAG union? I'm seriously going to start reading and finding out how unions start for grass root industries like ours. I think its the only way to keep a slice of the pie for us regular folk. Everyone keeps saying Monsanto but its just big business in general that will rape it. I could see the future being like almost all American industries, with the US legalizing other countries would follow suit and before you know it big business will set up shop in a 3 rd world country and just outsource weed thus elimanting a lot of the jobs that could be ok paying US jobs.

 

[habeeb]

what does this have to do with anything.. your on a "growing your own" website?

 

[dagnabit]

How many farmers have been taken to court by this ghost?

how many are imprisoned?
arrested every 42 seconds?

How many lawsuits has this nonexistent threat won?

against cannabis growers?
i think 12?
no wait none.

How many lives have been ruined by this nonthreatening friend of the farmer?

a bunch!
lets outlaw corn to protect corn farmers from lawsuits!

Overactive imagination my ass. Read up on it.

If you aren't worried then you work for them.

i worry every day the jack booted thugs will kick down my door and kill my dogs...
ill take a little competition from the boogey man.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

So it's okay to have them bankrupting farmers, just not cannabis farmers?

That's kind of the whole reason I'm in this thread.

As soon as cannabis is farmed legally, those same legal farmers are going to be in the same boat as farmers today.

I'm not suggesting making something illegal is going to protect it.

I will say that cannabis' illegality is the only thing that stops the interest from agricultural giants at present...

Some corn is already illegal to grow... aren't you paying attention?

I still think you work for Monsanto

 

[GET MO]

I like what tommy chong said - legalize it, but dont regulate it. just leave it how it is only legal. too bad that would never happen, the government is the biggest mafia there is, they have they hands in everything, extortionists.

 

[Fred el Gato]

I like what tommy chong said - legalize it, but dont regulate it. just leave it how it is only legal. too bad that would never happen, the government is the biggest mafia there is, they have they hands in everything, extortionists.

Then wouldn't decrim be a better option. I think you'd have better control over fines then battling big Gov., Ag., Pharm., what have ya.

 

[bombadil.360]

dag, is what mustard is saying going over your head or are you playing the fool?

he's saying IF cannabis becomes legal at a federal level, then people like monsanto may surely try to monopolize the seed business, this will produce the same unappropiate circumstances for cannabis seed that non-cannabis seeds are in due to monsanto's unethical monopoly of the industry.

mustard is not saying that cannabis should stay illegal, he's just saying that if and when fully legalized, the legislation should provide protection from unethical monopolies to take over.

it's quite reasonable what he's saying; not sure if all that possible though, considering humans are greedy little pieces of dung for the most part.

peace

 

[dagnabit]

dag, is what mustard is saying going over your head or are you playing the fool?

enter the logical fallacy!
was wondering when you would show up

he's saying IF cannabis becomes legal at a federal level, then people like monsanto may surely try to monopolize the seed business, this will produce the same unappropiate circumstances for cannabis seed that non-cannabis seeds are in due to monsanto's unethical monopoly of the industry.

hmm i thought different but ok...

mustard is not saying that cannabis should stay illegal, he's just saying that if and when fully legalized, the legislation should provide protection from unethical monopolies to take over.

and ive asked several times HOW?
plant limits?
acreage limits?
specific language to prohibit those companies?
HOW?
if you tell me we should wait for better while people are being imprisoned please at least engage in the conversation about HOW?

it's quite reasonable what he's saying; not sure if all that possible though, considering humans are greedy little pieces of dung for the most part.

peace

the real difference is:
i believe the bigger evil is prohibition
others believe "monsanto's" possible (non)monopoly is the bigger evil.

the only answer provided as to how to prevent the dystopian scenario is "completely free the weed no regulations"
that is
A:unrealistic at best
B:does not prevent large companies.

my point is this.
if you are going to legalize there is no way to prevent "monsanto" from getting in.

so in reality if you are suggesting we "wait" to figure out how to keep them out you are going to be waiting a few centuries.

you want monsanto out of weed? the only way to do so is keep it prohibited.

 

[huarmiquilla]

howdy

how you do?

knowledge to power

share to care

love

freedom to cannabis

chant down babylon

positive vibrations

 

[mean mr.mustard]

my point is this.
if you are going to legalize there is no way to prevent "monsanto" from getting in.

so in reality if you are suggesting we "wait" to figure out how to keep them out you are going to be waiting a few centuries.

you want monsanto out of weed? the only way to do so is keep it prohibited.

That's all I wanted to hear.

I appreciate your sudden candor.

Now I understand why you are lying to everybody telling them Monsanto isn't bad, and making sure the only worry is about prison.

So are you saying that Monsanto doesn't pay your bills? I'm madly curious about that.

You know bombadil.360 didn't point out anything you didn't get as most of the readers here realize as well.

You just love being so squirmy as to not answer anything outright!

Save me some more time and say "Yes I think Monsanto will take it and run with it. Now let's hurry up and hand it to them before anyone else goes to prison!"

I'd feel as if we were on a more honest level in the discussion if you were to admit it.