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R
Rysam
my plants only see water from my fishtanks, I handwater though. the only thing I add is a splash of molasses every other watering. I have a 72 & 75, soon to be combined into a 135. The herbs are dark green and healthy as can be. everything goes to the compost pile at the end of the grow and water change water gets dumped on that pile too.
at 25cents for a feeder goldfish and a few bucks at the thrift store for a 20g tank, theres no reason not to set up a small tank just for the h2o.
at 25cents for a feeder goldfish and a few bucks at the thrift store for a 20g tank, theres no reason not to set up a small tank just for the h2o.
grouchy
Active member
A little update... My first run ended up ok. I had a couple deficiencies in flower but it flowered out alright. On the second run I stopped adding supplements and it seemed to do just fine. I didn't really clean out the grow bed in between runs as I am letting it build up and become active. The ammonia and nitrites have been at zero which is great for the fish. The nitrates were running around 20ppm the last time I checked. I used 7 fish on the last run but I think I am going to try 10 for this run to see what happens.
Just checking..
Just checking..
hi guys, sorry to hijack this thread too after posting in the wrong thread, doh, silly me , but having spent days reading and being slightly confused by it all, as with most newbies it seems, i think i understand finally and just wondered if i could run it past you.
I have been keeping fish for 2 years, and have a mature tank, never grown my own smoke, but aquaponics has just captured my imagination. My tank is a 10gall, with 5 black phantom tetra, 1 plec, 1 assasin snail (called leon, i thought that was genius) 5 guppies and a siamese fighter (elvis). because it is an aqua-one 320, which has a gravity filter, a pump goes to a spray bar then spray onto the filter medium (ceramic noodles and filter sponge) which gravity feeds the tank. i think a nft system would be fairly easy with this set-up, run a 1/4in pipe from the pump head and move the entire spraybar + medium to the top of the tray above the tank, and adapt the end of the tray with a similar feed pattern back to the tank below, also thinking is it possible to use the cermaic noodles (unfortunatly new and unused) instead of clay pebbles as my growing medium? maybe a little peat around the seeds when i transplant them.
I am going to move the entire tank into the cupboard and have both the light for the plants and the light for the tank on the same timer so the fish have light too, then pop in twice daily to feed the fish and check the plants, two to start with.
One question i do have, what is the effect of the change in light intensity/colour on the fish, am i advisable to partially shade the tank to protect them from it, as i do love elvis so much, i would hate to lose him, but can't really take him out of the community tank, as he might get agressive when i try to reintroduce him. The idea is if it all works to set up another tank to cycle during my next grow, then put the tank to snails.
So any thoughts or glaringly obvious flaws in my plan anyone can see? I plan to set this up over the next 2-3 days as my seeds are already in paper towel to germinate
Just checking..
hi guys, sorry to hijack this thread too after posting in the wrong thread, doh, silly me , but having spent days reading and being slightly confused by it all, as with most newbies it seems, i think i understand finally and just wondered if i could run it past you.
I have been keeping fish for 2 years, and have a mature tank, never grown my own smoke, but aquaponics has just captured my imagination. My tank is a 10gall, with 5 black phantom tetra, 1 plec, 1 assasin snail (called leon, i thought that was genius) 5 guppies and a siamese fighter (elvis). because it is an aqua-one 320, which has a gravity filter, a pump goes to a spray bar then spray onto the filter medium (ceramic noodles and filter sponge) which gravity feeds the tank. i think a nft system would be fairly easy with this set-up, run a 1/4in pipe from the pump head and move the entire spraybar + medium to the top of the tray above the tank, and adapt the end of the tray with a similar feed pattern back to the tank below, also thinking is it possible to use the cermaic noodles (unfortunatly new and unused) instead of clay pebbles as my growing medium? maybe a little peat around the seeds when i transplant them.
I am going to move the entire tank into the cupboard and have both the light for the plants and the light for the tank on the same timer so the fish have light too, then pop in twice daily to feed the fish and check the plants, two to start with.
One question i do have, what is the effect of the change in light intensity/colour on the fish, am i advisable to partially shade the tank to protect them from it, as i do love elvis so much, i would hate to lose him, but can't really take him out of the community tank, as he might get agressive when i try to reintroduce him. The idea is if it all works to set up another tank to cycle during my next grow, then put the tank to snails.
So any thoughts or glaringly obvious flaws in my plan anyone can see? I plan to set this up over the next 2-3 days as my seeds are already in paper towel to germinate
grouchy
Active member
Not really familiar with you filter but as long as you circulate the fish's poopy water through the plants roots you should be fine. There are a lot of different ways to do this and they should all work. Hydroton is a porous material and provides a good place for your bacteria to establish. I am sure the ceramic is similar and would be a good substitute.
Using grow lights over your tank may cause unwanted algae. Just keep an eye on it and you will be fine. I have had some cool ideas for ten gallon setup and would like to see how this one turns out. Good luck!
Using grow lights over your tank may cause unwanted algae. Just keep an eye on it and you will be fine. I have had some cool ideas for ten gallon setup and would like to see how this one turns out. Good luck!
S
SeaMaiden
I'm glad you bumped it. I'm a fishwoman who hasn't had fish in over 10 years. I'm feeling PARCHED! I worked the trade for many years and still keep my trade contacts.
K, the price of being out of the game for so long. Gravity filter, could it also be called a trickle filter? Box that's not sealed, pumps water to the top of the unit, where it is allowed to trickle or flow down over the biological media. Correct?
1/4" tubing seems pretty small, depending on how powerful the pump is you could end up with the water coming out at a higher pressure than you'd planned. Why not just toss the noodles/media into some pantyhose and put them in the tank? Start feeding much more heavily, but watch your ammonia levels as you do this. You're essentially culturing more nitrifiers, but you don't have sufficient bio-load in the fish and invert load you've reported to actually grow more nitrifiers, that's why you'll have to feed more heavily.
Another trade trick is to pee in a new system to help get it started... but something tells me you're not going to want to do that just yet, certainly not in a system as small as 10gals.
I'm assuming Elvis is a Betta splendens, not another species (hell if I can remember the species of fish that's actually used for fighting, but they're nowhere nearly as pretty as B. splendens). His color should remain unaffected by lighting conditions, but can be affected by water quality and diet. I don't think any of the fish you're keeping will be negatively affected by very bright lighting conditions as long as you're certain to provide plenty of cover. You may want to add something like duckweed to the tank, except that stuff *is* prolific, can clog pumps and filters, so take care if you do use it.
I'm an aquarium/aquatics gal, not an aquaponics gal, but I think I can wrap my head around a lot of stuff. I'd love to see pix or schematics of what you're describing and working with. The only issue I can think of is using that 1/4" tubing and if it's too small. You may also need to make the water column a bit 'dirtier' to provide sufficient nutrients for cannabis.
S
SeaMaiden
It can, but it's not as good as getting a bit of gravel, as the nitrifiers are benthic (attached to surfaces) only, not free-floating.
Most aquarists recommend not doing that unless you know that the tank/system in question is disease-free. Otherwise, I strongly recommend using best QT protocol (observed in separate system 30 days disease-free). Using gravel can be problematic if there's been an outbreak of ich, for instance.
Most aquarists recommend not doing that unless you know that the tank/system in question is disease-free. Otherwise, I strongly recommend using best QT protocol (observed in separate system 30 days disease-free). Using gravel can be problematic if there's been an outbreak of ich, for instance.
Cyat, i would never recommend a 100% water change, instead doing 20% weekly, and never ever washing filter medium or gravel in tap water because as as well as the nitrification cycle you have chlorine and more importantly chloramine to consider, as well as other chemical used to clean the water. Using water from another tank may help but the bacteria live in the gravel and filter medium, and a tank should always be cycled prior to adding fish, there are a couple of great articles here
http://www.myaquariumclub.com/the-nitrogen-cycle-for-beginners-358.html
and here
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_51/fishless-cycling-article.htm
Seamaiden, DO IT!!!!!! Yes a gravity filter is what you are discribing, different names for the same thing, mine has a layer of foam to remove any large particle, then a layer of ceramic noodles which contains the bacteria, then a layer of activated carbon to help break down any remaining chemicals and waste not dealt with by the other layers, although this would be removed as it is doing the job of the plants. leaving me with a layer for lumps and an additional bacterial layer, I also use a drip feed activated carbon filter allowed to run overnight on the water before adding it to the tank when doing water changes (partial, i do around 5 litres every 4 days) instead of chemicals such as stress coat (i do add aloe to the tank but would rather not add things such as sodium thiosulphate found in most commercial dechlorinators) so reducing the water change schedule and removing the carbon aspects of the process should give me sufficient bio-load. Will just have to keep an eye on it.
The reason i mention 1/4 inch instead of the normal 1/2 inch is that is the internal diameter of the existing connector pipe, so wouldn't reduce the flow or require any adaption to the pump or spray bar, so the pressure and flow rate should remain the same. if the pump has a 1/2 inch then i would go for that. Just trying to keep it simple. And i have a young bristle nose in there as well, which i am sure would appreciate the additional algae coming from the lights.
I shall add pictures of both the tanks when they are up and running. in the mean time this site has a basic overview, and the tests at the bottom of the page i found interesting. http://www.grobergreen.com/build-a-mini-aquaponic-system/ Although i have noticed a lot of aquaponics concerntrates more on the plant aspect than the fish, but with your knowledge, i am sure that won't be a problem
But if you wanted to try something else, how about an even smaller nano tank, with a small system above for trialing the system with herns such as basil or garlic etc. Constant supply of fresh herbs, and a constant supply of herb, thats my plan
http://www.myaquariumclub.com/the-nitrogen-cycle-for-beginners-358.html
and here
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_51/fishless-cycling-article.htm
Seamaiden, DO IT!!!!!! Yes a gravity filter is what you are discribing, different names for the same thing, mine has a layer of foam to remove any large particle, then a layer of ceramic noodles which contains the bacteria, then a layer of activated carbon to help break down any remaining chemicals and waste not dealt with by the other layers, although this would be removed as it is doing the job of the plants. leaving me with a layer for lumps and an additional bacterial layer, I also use a drip feed activated carbon filter allowed to run overnight on the water before adding it to the tank when doing water changes (partial, i do around 5 litres every 4 days) instead of chemicals such as stress coat (i do add aloe to the tank but would rather not add things such as sodium thiosulphate found in most commercial dechlorinators) so reducing the water change schedule and removing the carbon aspects of the process should give me sufficient bio-load. Will just have to keep an eye on it.
The reason i mention 1/4 inch instead of the normal 1/2 inch is that is the internal diameter of the existing connector pipe, so wouldn't reduce the flow or require any adaption to the pump or spray bar, so the pressure and flow rate should remain the same. if the pump has a 1/2 inch then i would go for that. Just trying to keep it simple. And i have a young bristle nose in there as well, which i am sure would appreciate the additional algae coming from the lights.
I shall add pictures of both the tanks when they are up and running. in the mean time this site has a basic overview, and the tests at the bottom of the page i found interesting. http://www.grobergreen.com/build-a-mini-aquaponic-system/ Although i have noticed a lot of aquaponics concerntrates more on the plant aspect than the fish, but with your knowledge, i am sure that won't be a problem
But if you wanted to try something else, how about an even smaller nano tank, with a small system above for trialing the system with herns such as basil or garlic etc. Constant supply of fresh herbs, and a constant supply of herb, thats my plan
S
SeaMaiden
Hoopgirl, I have to push WetWebMedia, because Bob's a friend of mine, it's a Googlewhack, and the information is backed by solid science. I'm not saying those other sites don't have good information, but I can pretty much guarantee that what's found on WWM is 100% solid, no speculation.
Also, I'll have to disagree on limiting W/Cs to 20%, there are many scenarios where a much larger W/C is not only necessary, but warranted. There are other scenarios, getting some species to breed for example, where you're not going to get what you're after if you *don't* perform a large water change, up to 100%. Obviously, some care must be taken, but it can be done.
I'm also going to share my best money-saving tip for those on muni water supplies--dry sodium thiosulfate. Get yourself 2lbs from thechemistrystore.com for about $5, mix that *down* to a 3% solution. Now you have the standard dechlorination mix. But wait! I just read that you don't want to use it. Why not? It's not harmful to plants or invertebrates, and the method I've described is how it's used in public aquariums such as Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific.
Wanna know what I would drop from that system? The carbon. It has now been definitely proven that activated carbon is what causes HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) in saltwater fishes (Hemdal). If your municipal water supplier is only using chlorine (smells, whereas chloramine doesn't smell), then you can simply aerate and eliminate the carbon altogether. I suggest further that, if your goal is to get other things to grow, including the carbon here is completely counterproductive due to the fact that it *is* adsorbing other compounds that can be used by plants.
Yes, but there are factors to take into consideration. First, don't vacuum the living the hell out of the gravel, don't clean the tank sides or any other fixtures.
Make absolutely certain that the change water is temped and pH'd--this is as much for your Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas as your fishes and inverts.
Finally, water straight from the tap often has gasses in solution that, as soon as the water comes out from a pressurized scenario, come out of solution. For this reason I like to go slowly if doing a complete water change. It's better IMO to cause the water to fall, like a stream, with splashing or some other physical agitation which forces those gasses to come out of solution and dissipate into the atmosphere. If you've ever seen a new tank filled with tiny bubbles you'll know what I'm talking about.
I'll have to contact the Bobster and find out if WWM is addressing aquaponics at all, or if there are any crewmembers who might be familiar. All my fishkeeping life the goal has been to dilute the pollution. But considering how algal filtration and refugia work, the principles behind those methods, etc, seems too logical to me that someone should have.
Also, I'll have to disagree on limiting W/Cs to 20%, there are many scenarios where a much larger W/C is not only necessary, but warranted. There are other scenarios, getting some species to breed for example, where you're not going to get what you're after if you *don't* perform a large water change, up to 100%. Obviously, some care must be taken, but it can be done.
I'm also going to share my best money-saving tip for those on muni water supplies--dry sodium thiosulfate. Get yourself 2lbs from thechemistrystore.com for about $5, mix that *down* to a 3% solution. Now you have the standard dechlorination mix. But wait! I just read that you don't want to use it. Why not? It's not harmful to plants or invertebrates, and the method I've described is how it's used in public aquariums such as Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific.
Wanna know what I would drop from that system? The carbon. It has now been definitely proven that activated carbon is what causes HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) in saltwater fishes (Hemdal). If your municipal water supplier is only using chlorine (smells, whereas chloramine doesn't smell), then you can simply aerate and eliminate the carbon altogether. I suggest further that, if your goal is to get other things to grow, including the carbon here is completely counterproductive due to the fact that it *is* adsorbing other compounds that can be used by plants.
Yes, but there are factors to take into consideration. First, don't vacuum the living the hell out of the gravel, don't clean the tank sides or any other fixtures.
Make absolutely certain that the change water is temped and pH'd--this is as much for your Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas as your fishes and inverts.
Finally, water straight from the tap often has gasses in solution that, as soon as the water comes out from a pressurized scenario, come out of solution. For this reason I like to go slowly if doing a complete water change. It's better IMO to cause the water to fall, like a stream, with splashing or some other physical agitation which forces those gasses to come out of solution and dissipate into the atmosphere. If you've ever seen a new tank filled with tiny bubbles you'll know what I'm talking about.
I'll have to contact the Bobster and find out if WWM is addressing aquaponics at all, or if there are any crewmembers who might be familiar. All my fishkeeping life the goal has been to dilute the pollution. But considering how algal filtration and refugia work, the principles behind those methods, etc, seems too logical to me that someone should have.
Don't know that site. Always looking for new sources of information, especially ones that can be trusted. so shall check it out, thank you. Also not familiar with algal filtration and refugia, so shall have to go have a dig around see what i can find... more research. *sigh* feel like i am doing more of that at the moment than actual stuff. Still better to be thorough in your research right.
My understanding, i except i may be incorrect, but this is simply my understanding, is that whereas there may be examples where a 100% water changes are necessary, as a generalised rule when working with your average home aquarium, that kind of change is more detrimental due to the shock on the fish. changing the environment to that extent if the water is not correctly treated or same temperature, ph, chemically the same, which within a trade would be far easier to monitor and achieve than you average home aquarist, so smaller changes more frequently would be far kinder to the fish than larger ones.
As i have mentioned before i am very much a fan of natural approaches, if my ph needs to come down, i use our faithfully friend oak leaves or indian almond leaves, to bring it up, limestone. Fisj looking a bit under the weather aloe, fish ill, quarentine and dose accordingly with suitable herbal remedies. This is not to say the traditional appraoches aren't more effective, i guess i'm just a hippy at heart
When i researched sodium thiosulfate the data sheets from the relative suppliers all mentioned that it can be cause irritation to the digestive tract, based on this, even at a 3% solution i would rather not have it being absorbed by something i am going to ingest, or once i move to a larger scale an animal i am planning on eating. I have a very dodgy gut at the best of times.My bad, i was trying to say that once i get things growing i would be removing the carbon, as i realise it would be counter productive. And that aspect would now be taken by the plants. Obviously my not doing very well on explaining, although a reinforcement of why i think like that is always welcome. Just means i know i am making the right choice.
Just waiting for my seeds to do their thing then we are ready to fly with this project. Getting impatient for things to grow now.
Oh dear, they have a page called aquatic Science, being an engineer with a love of science, this could well be fatal to my plans for the next week or so. Do you realise what you have done? hehehehe
Oh dear, they have a page called aquatic Science, being an engineer with a love of science, this could well be fatal to my plans for the next week or so. Do you realise what you have done? hehehehe
S
SeaMaiden
Yes, yes I do. Mr. Fenner is about THE most intelligent person I have ever known, let alone met. I can't describe how much is up in his head, all this stuff that he can't get out fast enough.
He set up WWM back in the 90s I believe. I'd already met him when I went to work at Petco's HQ in San Diego, and at that time he was already a very popular aquarium and scuba diving author and photog. In fact, I worked with him for a full month before I realized he was a regular contributing editor to one of my favorite aquarium magazines, Freshwater and Marine Aquarium (aka FAMA).
But the thing is, with specific regard to this type of endeavor, is that if you're anything like me then you have to do it right and you have to understand what's happening and why. And that, my watery-hearted sister, is why I had to tell you about WWM.
Also, he maintains a 'crew' of helpers who answer what are called the Daily FAQs. Basically any question or problem a fishkeeper, aquarist, scientist, student, whoever has, they (used to be 'we' as I was part of the WWM crew for a few years post-injury) is answered in as short a time as possible and put up in a daily listing of Q&As. So! If you find you have an aquaponic question and there's a crewmember who knows anything about it, they'll do their best to answer and it goes up into the dailies. The dailies are then archived. This has led to WWM becoming an incredible, and incredibly huge, source of information and thus resource.
Many of Bob's photographs are the only known photos of a given species of fish, making his remarks "Googlewhacks" (the only hit via Google, don't know how true this is today as it's been at least 10 years since I checked), and often the only photos of a given species in fishbase is one of Bob's photos.
I understand what you're saying about the ST. Knowing what I do now about how to neutralize Cl or NH2Cl, considering that your goal is to cultivate plants, organically, then yes, it seems better to use other methods. Not necessarily cheaper, but if it's hard on your innards I totally understand.
Ah! Harassment Cat is back in action this morning.
