paperchaser825
Active member
Edited.
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Anyone used the BioWave ?
- Thread starter catalyte
- Start date
bout to get one in the coming weeks. will let ya'll know what i think.
paperchaser825
Active member
Would make an easy side by side if possible.
OGShush
Member
mtlakehydro, googling the names you provided I come up with an interesting side by side comparison of the biowave. It is worth noting that these scientists represent an independent analysis company called suntec and that they were likely paid by biowave to conduct aforementioned study (linked at end of post). The study shows the biowave group consistently out performing control group. However interestingly enough at the end analysis the control group fails to yield anything but the biowave crop yields fruit? If this were a college biology class my professor would be chewing my ass if my analysis didn't include a possible reasoning for failure of my control crop. Interestingly enough the foliar mineral analysis doesn't show much variation between the two, with control group actually beating the biowave group phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, and iron.
This is the least shady looking piece of evidence I've seen to the efficacy of biowave and I'm still not any less skeptical than I was in the beginning. Actually I might even be more skeptical since the experts you listed are from a paid hydroponic consultancy group and their experiment was none too impressive. If I had such skewed results and my foliar leaf analysis showed no anomalies my professor would be looking for some sort of commentary in my conclusion. I'm pretty confident this test wouldn't stand up to peer review by a credible non-paid source.
What else do you have? Please include a link or something this time, I hate wasting 5-10 minutes on google only to be spectacularly disappointed by something that looks like a write up of a high school biology project. Why is it the guy doing all the discrediting has to cite all his sources and some dude with 9 posts and 2 weeks sales experience doesn't post his?
source: http://igcusa.com/catalogs/BioWave_Study.pdf
This is the least shady looking piece of evidence I've seen to the efficacy of biowave and I'm still not any less skeptical than I was in the beginning. Actually I might even be more skeptical since the experts you listed are from a paid hydroponic consultancy group and their experiment was none too impressive. If I had such skewed results and my foliar leaf analysis showed no anomalies my professor would be looking for some sort of commentary in my conclusion. I'm pretty confident this test wouldn't stand up to peer review by a credible non-paid source.
What else do you have? Please include a link or something this time, I hate wasting 5-10 minutes on google only to be spectacularly disappointed by something that looks like a write up of a high school biology project. Why is it the guy doing all the discrediting has to cite all his sources and some dude with 9 posts and 2 weeks sales experience doesn't post his?
source: http://igcusa.com/catalogs/BioWave_Study.pdf
mtlakehydro
Member
OGShush the control group did not have harvestable fruit yet that's why. Obviously the Biowave treated plant grown under the same conditions was ahead of the control plant at the time of harvest. That's the best I can do. I do believe you would be a great candidate for a trial test. I respect your responses as they are only responsible in the way of rooting out fake products. I will post any more data that I can get for this site. As for my 10 posts and 2 weeks of sales. Well that's not right I have no sales experience at all other than selling high quality produce to major grocery store produce buyers like Wegmans, Wies , and wholefoods. I never was a good salesman I just like when products help me make more production in my greenhouses. Keep up the good work OGShush I really like the seriousness in which you look into the worthiness of new products especially with such huge claims. You are definitely a good gate keeper for the less scrupulous. Like I said I will post more data as it comes in including pics. I would suggest that the CannaMag community get on board also good or bad to get this more understood as a great product or snake oil.
mtlakehydro
Member
Yes please post as much data as you can on yields and insect control
mtlakehydro
Member
Yes send that data about yields and insect control as well
So you went for the most naive dodgy market with money to burn , rather than the billion dollar glasshouse industry that would demand proof .
A year on and none of the agricultural tests have been updated or published.
Its been around since 2010 , would expect some reliable reports by now.
If you are only here to hype a product and defy the laws of physics you should buy a banner ad , there are probably enougth dreamers and posers to buy a few units here but you should pay for the priviledge.
Worked for ledgurl.
http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/11/24/beheco.ars206.full
Green symphonies: a call for studies on acoustic communication in plants
Green symphonies: a call for studies on acoustic communication in plants
mtlakehydro
Member
Storm Shadow nice link. I sent Monica who wrote that piece if she knew anyone that had any information about research data on the Biowave.
OGShush
Member
Interesting but it's more a call for research and an interpretation of current research. It's pretty clear that the author has a bias towards believing plant sounds are for communication and not the result of cavitation as other studies have suggested. Either way you slice it studies on bioaccoustic communication are in their infancy and don't seem to agree on a whole hell of a lot. No one seems to be able to identify the process by which the noises recorded are produced and we don't know of any specialized tissue capable of producing such noise.
It's quite long and I don't have time to read through it this afternoon, but it does bring up an interesting point. If this paper written late last fall cites and exhaustive amount of academic sources and says "No one knows what the fuck is up. We need more research" I find it very hard to believe that some relatively unknown start up has it all figured out and is willing to sell it for 1 easy payment of 1249.99. Then again some guy last week claimed to have a cold fusion device, so whatever I guess.
mtlakehydro thank you for your kind words but I would not be a good test candidate. No matter what knowledge I possess I'm a hobby med grower. I'd like to see what MSU could do with it, I've heard they have a wonderful agronomy department and I know they offer majors in floraculture and horticulture. My observations are almost as useless as that of a CEO aside from the fact that I have limited biological knowledge and some relevant experience. You need control and more importantly you need a way to protect the test from operator bias. If I were a professor I'd build a box in the center of 4 fields and only 1 box would have a Biowave in it and I'd be the only person who knew. Have research assistants conduct the experiment. If it survives peer review and a few other universities are able to independently verify the data I'll shove a Biowave up my ass and farm dingleberries.
You may not think yourself a good salesman but your angle is working. Be polite and insistent but not rude. Any controversy I generate is good publicity as it intrigues the target demographic and they say "fuck it I'll buy it and see for myself." I'm sure you didn't get to be the head of a hydroponic produce empire by being a fool. If I'm even halfway right PM me, the idea of guerilla marketing has intrigued me since I was just a kiddo and I love farming whether it's mending fences or hanging HIDs.
S
SooperSmurph
I'd be happy to run a side by side in a large warehouse here in CO for them, fully documented with publicly posted numbers, they're something of a hobby of mine 
OGShush
Member
I'd be happy to run a side by side in a large warehouse here in CO for them, fully documented with publicly posted numbers, they're something of a hobby of mine
Damn, I wish Michigan was as business oriented as Colorado. By the way, where do I send my resume?
I saw this thing on TV on sunday. On Satellite TV(I think it was on showcase) there was a show called Hydroshow or some shit like that. Basically a maximum yield type thing in TV format. All ads. There was a middle aged american guy as the expert giving growers advice, and it was showing some nice room construction. It was quite bizarre seeing an ad for advanced nutrients on TV.
Anyway, my immediate thought when I saw this thing was "What a load of bollocks" Exactly what I think about Nevils magic pop bottle water vortex thingy.
Anyway, my immediate thought when I saw this thing was "What a load of bollocks" Exactly what I think about Nevils magic pop bottle water vortex thingy.
This really isn't that crazy. The claim is that certain frequencies make a certain plant part get bigger, which results in increased yields. People have said for years music near your plants makes them grow better, but we don't know why. The science appears to say that yes it can cause an increase, but have no idea why...which could mean an indirect link so not ready to say X causes Y. However, if the end results show X product increases Y(ields), why attack it unless we've got evidence one way or the other. Dutch Touch uses these in his setup. I was watching his warehouse youtube video the other day and you will notice these devices in his giant ass grows...you think he's a sucker? Yes, it might not be the product for a 600 watt closet wizard, because the increase in yield percentage isn't enough to justify the cost. But look at the it from a mass production view. Even a 5% increase on a 100+ pound operation is still 5 pounds. That pays for itself in the first run. Also, they don't claim on 5%, I was going on the low side to prove the economic viability of the product.
Anyway, what I say we really need is for someone like Dutch Touch to do a legit side by side. Someone with a big enough setup they could do two identical runs on opposite ends of the building where one uses the product and the other doesn't. That's the kind of results that are going to put this issue to bed...scientifically tested ones, not haters and skeptics nagging it down before it gets a chance.
Anyway, what I say we really need is for someone like Dutch Touch to do a legit side by side. Someone with a big enough setup they could do two identical runs on opposite ends of the building where one uses the product and the other doesn't. That's the kind of results that are going to put this issue to bed...scientifically tested ones, not haters and skeptics nagging it down before it gets a chance.
mtlakehydro
Member
Im with you anon0988,
I ask Dutch what he thought and he said he didn't know what that thing does. Really? That's odd. Hum... mabey 1 of the monkeys knows whats up. jus messin with you but really whats your exp. with this thingamajigee
I ask Dutch what he thought and he said he didn't know what that thing does. Really? That's odd. Hum... mabey 1 of the monkeys knows whats up. jus messin with you but really whats your exp. with this thingamajigee
mtlakehydro
Member
Hey guys , as much as I hate to announce I can say without a doubt that the Biowave is NOT legit. I just want to set the record straight. To much love goes into our gardens to have a company lie about product results backed by trusted hydroponic consultants and get away with it.
Here are the facts that led me to conclude the Biowave is bunk.
1. They have had this product out long enough that we would be hearing and seeing these great results they claim.
2. One of the testimonals on there website that I trusted was the CEO of American Hydroponics. I call them and found out a couple of things.
a. The 2 biowaves that Amercian Hydroponics gave out to commercial growers were returned because they should no yield increses and the growers didn't want to buy them.
b. The testimonial that Biowave has on there website from American Hydroponics was supposed to be taken down. In fact AH was told that it had been taken down.
c. A.H. currently doesn't even sell the Biowave.
3. The rest of the testimonals are from Distributors/Retailers.
4. All of the growers and farmers around the world would line up to get 20% yield increases.
5. This product has an incredible mark up on price from Biowave if your are one of there distributors. $600.00 for the mini and retail is $1250.00. The large unit is $2000.00 and retails for $4500.00.
Soooooo , I think that us growers are smart enough to read between the lines on this one.
Cheers
Here are the facts that led me to conclude the Biowave is bunk.
1. They have had this product out long enough that we would be hearing and seeing these great results they claim.
2. One of the testimonals on there website that I trusted was the CEO of American Hydroponics. I call them and found out a couple of things.
a. The 2 biowaves that Amercian Hydroponics gave out to commercial growers were returned because they should no yield increses and the growers didn't want to buy them.
b. The testimonial that Biowave has on there website from American Hydroponics was supposed to be taken down. In fact AH was told that it had been taken down.
c. A.H. currently doesn't even sell the Biowave.
3. The rest of the testimonals are from Distributors/Retailers.
4. All of the growers and farmers around the world would line up to get 20% yield increases.
5. This product has an incredible mark up on price from Biowave if your are one of there distributors. $600.00 for the mini and retail is $1250.00. The large unit is $2000.00 and retails for $4500.00.
Soooooo , I think that us growers are smart enough to read between the lines on this one.
Cheers
