Anyone familiar with banking procedures?

[yamaha_1fan]

Out of almost 60,000 members on this forum, I am hoping a couple work in a bank or have detailed knowledge of banking procedures.

I am interested in how "suspect cash" deposits get reported? Is it by amount, frequency, teller? or is it accumlative like if multiple deposits were made at different branches in one day?

If this report was made, who does it go to? What do they do to follow up?

 

[Chester]

I have a relative who has told me that in simple terms, "it depends"....

Congress has passed so many laws that some of the banks are reporting $1000 cash deposits as a cover their ass move. The banks really aren't sure what all these new "Patriot-Act" type laws require as the language of those rush-job laws is pretty vague, and some of them carry extremely stiff penalties.

His bank always reports cash transactions of $3k and up. It's a lower threshold than the law, but they don't want to get hit with the penalties for possibly not reporting a "terrorist" deposit.....

We can hope that the fatherland security folks are buried in transaction reports. When the bail-out inflation kicks in, they will be buried in transaction reports.

Multiple deposits in one day at different branches is a giant red flag!! Don't do it! There are money-laundering statues on the books that consider such actions as "structuring" and they'll come knocking on your door to convict you of money-laundering. (Structuring is attempting to make multiple transactions below the reporting limit.)

 

[eyes]

chester hit it on the head.aint nothing restricted like it once was.almost all deposits of 3000 or more are reported.bushs got the whole world paranoid.If you fart wrong theyll report that.Freedom?whats that? i forgot.

 

[Deft]

You could store your cash in the rural bank... Turn it into bullion and bury it!

Somehow I thought the limit was 10k for a report to go out, but I could totally see banks covering their asses for lesser amounts.

 

[manwithnoname]

I work at a bank, but in the collections area. We have gone over the basics of what a teller is supposed to look for. The law is they have to report anything above 10k. Someone mentioned earlier that some banks report as low as 3k, but i'm not sure about that, unless they keep it only in their personal records. Dont try to deposit $9,999.99 either as this would be definately suspicious. Also, if you do multiple deposits such as 4k and 5k just to keep deposits under the 10k. Multiple deposits at multiple banks might be suspicious, also would be multiple people depositing into 1 single account. large cash deposits= red flag. Also, say you have a reg job where you deposit say $1500 every 2 weeks from paycheck, then if all the sudden they start getting strange deposit amounts at strange times=red flag. Always try to be courteious and talkative to the bank rep. dont act suspicious. laws have gotten way stricter with mofo's wanting to kill Americans.

 

[whodi]

I think the safest way would be to open a business account at the bank.. stating you run a handyman service or something and depositing 1500 a week and just file taxes on it at the end of the year?

I beleive if you have too much cash at once, the branch manager is called to talk to you and they might ask how you got that much and why you wanted to deposit it. And if you decide to deposit it, they would most likely fill out a form stating how you got it etc, and file it with the IRS or whatever.

And if you keep depositing certain amounts around 2-3k+ (i'm assuming) i'm sure they will get suspicious if it's just straight cash going into your personal account. They would most likely notify your local police department and they would of course investigate it.

Take what I say however you wish.. as this is my thoughts on it all. Not actual facts.

 

[rootfingers]

Is it really that easy? How would you survive an audit?

 

[whodi]

Not exactly sure but that's a modest way to deposit money... theres a lot of people who have small business' that bring in cash like plumbers, landscapers, artists, etc..

 

[Julian]

CTR=Cash Transaction Report is standard over 10k...not necessarily an issue....(unless you plan on not paying taxes on it)

SAR=Suspicious Activity Report..(any amount or 15k cash total in under 72 hrs will generate CAR and most likely simultaneous SAR)

(Above confuse the 2 and triggers and implications......both often confused by people...)

Business Accounts=multiple, erratic cash deposits. Business different deposit patterns than a personal.

Could walk in to bank tomorrow with 1MM cash and not necessarily have a problem depending on how,what,and where done.

C'monnnn......this has got to be top 10 of most repeated topics....(and most misunderstood)

Has to be at least 100 detailed pages in a search...

 

[barletta]

3 words, DBA. That's fer the bank. 3 more, LLC. That's fer the irs. But a teller is human, and if they 'decide', they and anyone they tell can look at your banking history, so act like you actually do own the yarn store... Any cash transaction 10k+ is CTR. I'm sure that banks go above and beyond for the gov't, reporting just about everything. Hell gov't just padded the balance sheets, right?

Don't keep cash and bud together, stinky pants. I had one of the girls ask me if "this smells like weed". I didn't think so, just like mold, but she was convinced. She didn't do or say anything, but who is to say what tellers would or wouldn't. Bank tellers are a gossipy, catty, cliquey bunch when they are all by themselves...

EDIT -

If this report was made, who does it go to? What do they do to follow up?

IRS, homeland security, and FBI oficially. Google PROMIS, and understand that it is installed on bank computers/communication networks. If the teller says to the manager (combined they are making ~25 bux an hr with decent benefits...)"..Dood is shady.." it could be a BIG problem if you aren't prepared (ie: bus acct)

 

[Julian]

Actually FinCEN.

SAR's. All one has to do is know what it is, why required,by who,why,when,etc

 

[Pythagllio]

Is it really that easy? How would you survive an audit?

Really, the IRS is more concerned about people trying to underpay their tax burden than with people who volunteer to pay 'extra'. You don't get in trouble with the taxman for telling him you owe more than he thinks you do. You guys do know tax returns can't be used against you in court for any charges other than tax evasion, right?

 

[Julian]

Was going to edit link yesterday to best source and didn't have a chance.

The overview what your after, Act, all forms, everything.

You guys do know tax returns can't be used against you in court for any charges other than tax evasion, right?

They can be (and are often) used during course of investigations......ie: Tax returns show 35k declared. 2MM home with mortgage application(s) claiming 500k a yr, and accounts showing deposits of...whatever...950 a yr.....) Have been cases (posted, here) illustrating overview of financials probed during investigation.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Very good info.

Julian this has been discussed before but never with this kind of detail. I was also hoping someone here actually worked in a bank or had firsthand knowledge of how these policy's were enforced.


You think an accountant has a decent amount of knowledge on the issue?

 

[Julian]

Actually has been discussed in far greater detail...

Your overestimating bank employees. Greatly.

Accountants? Quite a wealth of knowledge, but, as with above, your after specific matters and knowledge.

There is no single "advanced" professional who does not maintain a library, research resources, reference material........

Your starting point is to become as well versed on all from start through finish then build upon it with assistance from professionals.

Also of note/Business banking....
I established my business banking from the start.....can't even tell you last time I even spoke to a teller....customer service...etc...

I can also tell you I can't even count how many typical "rules" I break at my banks....

Read carefully:
The institution, their behavior to you, their responses to you, the leniency granted to you.......all about personal relationships and history....

I could walk 300k of harvest money into my place tomorrow and would be open arms, smiles, and letting me know who thinks I'm cute this week......

(Because I am a long time established important business customer....)

Like any other business....
They want your business....the better you do, the more money they make.......

Bottom line:
Keep that in mind...
Keep overview of rules in mind.

And don't give them a reason to suspect anything out of the ordinary..

(I said about about leniency and loose "rules"....can't give an explanation....don't want to...don't want to give specifics, but...let's use example of anything else:

Well, we're supposed to.....(yeah, I know, but been coming here 15 years and you know me....)
Well, with that we need....(yeah, I know, but I'm really busy...do it for me and I'll bring it in tomorrow....)
Well, it's customary to ___ in this situation (but, your our guy, we like you, so...eh, we can waive that, etc.....)

Talk about bringing business to a bank......then let them know will be 2MM a year in business and see how they react .....

An amusing example?.......(amusing but nonetheless real)....
Was talking to someone about it last week, trying to explain, and left it with "Dude....go watch "Beverly Hillbillies" )

(A silly example...but, nonetheless.....a realistic one......)

The more you do, the more importance your business is.....

If one presents themselves in the appropriate manner......well.....

I would also suggest, just as with attorneys and accountants....making use of every minute of time with bank execs you can for info

When I call my places, from switchboard through final desk I never even tell them who I am...(They know me...know my voice...every one who picks up I start with "Hey...blah,blah,blah...is he/she in or....")

Procedure?......regulations?....
The easy part and all out there.(quite a bit above also....)..not to mention, as above, many cases in which how all come together during investigation.....

People get wrapped up in money details......while important, not one of most peoples priority concerns....(which would be not getting caught in an op in the first place, etc......)

Banking usually involved when your already caught....

There is no cut and dry answer as all the above and then some determines your position....

"Dummy" business and start walking bags of cash in?.....of course not, most wouldn't, so, doesn't matter anyway.....

As with anything in life...groundwork is laid, relationships established, and built from there...

I think an overworked topic.....have to get to that point first, and by then most already have business(s), accountants, relationships, laid, etc...

 

[whodi]

I've also heard if you can get a family memeber to notarize, or something, that they gave you a bunch of cash you can deposit it easily. Not sure what it's called exactly or if they have to file taxes on it or what though..

 

[tgpfarm]

Open a LLC and pay taxes on it and I don't think the gov will have much of a problem. As long as your not bringing in duffel bags of cash weekly.

 

[Unsane]

As Julian said, there is a wealth of information about this topic. All you need to do is a simple search. Anyways, I thought these snippets from the IRS website would be useful:

From the IRS website (Narcotics-Related Financial Investigations - Criminal Investigation):

For the IRS, money laundering and narcotics investigations are the compliance effort to address criminal violations of the Bank Secrecy Act, the Money Laundering Control Act of 1986 and section 6050(I) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Internal Revenue Code – CI has sole jurisdiction for criminal violations of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), Title 26 of the United States Code. The IRC, Section 61(a) defines gross income as ". . . all income from whatever source derived." This has been held by the courts to include income earned from illegal activities such as drug trafficking. The primary criminal statutes violated include evasion of income tax, false income tax returns, and failure to file tax returns, among others.

Additionally, IRC, Section 6050(i), requires anyone involved in a trade or business, except financial institutions, to report currency received for goods or services in excess of $10,000. This requirement has provided a significant impediment to the use of illicit profits by narcotics traffickers for the purchase of luxury items such as vehicles, jewelry and boats. Financial institutions report similar information on a Currency Transaction Report.

A new law, Title 31, Section 5331 of the United States Code, was passed in 2001 as a result of the USA Patriot Act and duplicates the reporting provisions of IRC, Section 6050(i). Dual reporting of this information will now be made to both the IRS and the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).

Money Laundering Control Act of 1986 – CI investigates and recommends criminal prosecution for violations of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1956 and 1957. These statutes make illegal certain financial transactions constituting laundering, hiding, or use of proceeds generated through specified unlawful activities, such as narcotics trafficking and embezzlement, among others.

Bank Secrecy Act – The Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act, Public Law No. 91-508, Title II, along with financial institution record-keeping requirements, became known as the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA). The BSA mandates the reporting of certain currency transactions conducted with a financial institution, (Form 4789), the disclosure of foreign bank accounts (TD F 90-22.1), and the reporting of the transportation of currency exceeding $10,000 across United States borders (Form 4790).

Asset Forfeiture – The asset forfeiture program is one of the federal government's most effective tools against drug trafficking, money laundering, and organized crime. In conjunction with other federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies, CI uses asset forfeiture statutes to dismantle criminal enterprises by seizing and forfeiting their assets. Most of CI's seizures and forfeitures are the result of Title 18 and Title 31 money laundering and currency investigations.

Here are some key terms you should search for:

• Bank Secrecy Act
• Money Laundering Control Act
• section 6050(I)
• Form 8300
• Suspicious Activity Reports
• USA Patriot Act
• Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts
• Statistical Data - Narcotics-Related Financial Investigations
• Lawrence Fassler Cleveland DOJ
• Examples of Narcotics-Related Financial Investigations FY2008
• Criminal Investigation IRS
• High Intensity Money Laundering and Related Financial Crime Area
• Office of National Drug Control Policy
• Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force
• High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area

The relevant sections of the Patriot Act are:

• Final Rule-Section 326- Customer Identification Program
• Final Rule-Section 314- Special Information Sharing Procedures to Deter
• Money Laundering and Terrorist Activity
• Final Rule-Section 313 and 319(b) Anti-Money Laundering Requirements for Foreign Correspondent Banks
• Interim Final Rule-Section 312-Special Due-Diligence Programs for Certain Foreign Accounts

Hope this helps.

 

[Julian]

A case referenced before, with specific interest in:
Court documents also show investigators attached a Global Positioning System tracking device to Andrews' truck and searched his trash, his mail and his financial and tax histories before applying for a search warrant

Link to application and affidavit for warrant middle of page, left side.

(Long read but a very good example due to overview and textbook investigation, ie: banking not what leads to investigation, but contributes to it.)

 

[Dr. G]

i just use Clorox color safe bleach...