any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom

[dansbuds]

Beautiful girls, Dan! The only thing that I would add here is that in the feeding instructions, V+B suggests cutting the nutrient levels back after 3 weeks instead of the traditional way. I've never run the EC at full strength past 28 days, so that may be the reason that I haven't seen any problems with airy buds. I'm still struggling with cutting the level down at 3 weeks instead of 4, but I need to try it sometime!

I went to the normal 45 days with it & thats when things got fuked up . The indicas didn't mind the extra but the sativas really suffered .this last run i started tapering off at 30 days & it was a much better budset . I am curious as to a PK boost after i start tapering though . haven't done it yet ....not sure i will .

 

[ICbuds]

I'm definitely not following their directions but rather feeding my girls more if they want it and less if they don't.
We didn't run a pk on this crop and I'm glad. I think the strain you are running will tell you whether to run pk or not. The overdrive worked great on my OGs and Lankier strains but this 8 weeker gets so chunky on V+B alone that I wouldn't try to get them thicker for fear of mold.

 

[Hydrolized]

I've been damn happy with my results, and the only thing that I add is Drip Clean for the blumats. I tried one run with ProTekt and it made my pH fluctuate more than I wanted to deal with, and have since gone back to just the two.

Why don't you try it and see how you like it? I don't recall how big your grow is, but the free sample might get you pretty well along.

I'm going to give it a try in my Veg tent on some new clones for a baseline....that is a 50 gallon rez so at 2-3g/gal and rez change every 10 days I should get a whole veg run from 1lb....if they look good in Veg Ill try a run in one of my flower tents, but those are 200 Gallons changed every 10 days and at 4g/gal thats almost 10lbs for a cycle....considering what I'm reading about this high N problem not sure if I want to drop over $200 on something that will end up being just as much a hassle as a 2part to get the quantity and quality of meds I'm looking for when it comes to additives and plants doing stupid shit on me.....guess the only way to find out is do a whole run

 

[dansbuds]

Someone else was just saying that it wasn't really cost efficiant for them with a large grow op . this maybe the case for you bigger guys . but for a small grower like me a 5lb tub lasts almost 2 months & at $100 for 2 months of nutes is great

GH flora or Jack's & calnit might a cheaper consideration for the big growers like yourself . they both mix alot cleaner than the maxi .

 

[ICbuds]

I ran flora series for years and my herb never tasted this good. I also recently tried the Jacks formula listed on another forum and...more work, less action. Buying 25lbs at my local shop we are running around 13 cents a gallon. Going to run it outdoors this year too. Should be a fun one.

 

[jayjayfrank]

not sure if I want to drop over $200 on something that will end up being just as much a hassle as a 2part to get the quantity and quality of meds I'm looking for when it comes to additives and plants doing stupid shit on me.....guess the only way to find out is do a whole run

i stopped using everything else because the plants havnt done any stupid shit since moving to vegbloom.

i lie. i still do 1 week of koolbloom powder at 150ppm in week 6 or 7.

best round yet.

if i was going to do more than a 50 gallons rez per week and cost is the main concern i would look into jacks+calnit and make my own.

if i had a sealed room with co2 and gavitas i would try something like vegbloom with aptus.

 

[rives]

i stopped using everything else because the plants havnt done any stupid shit since moving to vegbloom.

i lie. i still do 1 week of koolbloom powder at 150ppm in week 6 or 7.

best round yet.

if i was going to do more than a 50 gallons rez per week and cost is the main concern i would look into jacks+calnit and make my own.

if i had a sealed room with co2 and gavitas i would try something like vegbloom with aptus.

Interesting. I bought Koolbloom and Jack's just before I found V+B, and have been tempted to try the Koolbloom out. I run blumats though, so it would probably be a hand-watered addition a couple of times. Have you tried the V+B without the Koolbloom to see the difference?

 

[jayjayfrank]

here is the difference between using a pk booster and how i use kool bloom:

with veg+bloom we step down early giving the plant the highest EC in the first 3 weeks of flower. BUT we don't want veg+bloom after week 5 (per Heads schedule - no micros).

so kool bloom is the stop gap between 0.6EC veg+bloom in week 5 and 0.3EC koolbloom in week 6 (week 7-9 is water only)

Veg+Bloom Schdule (tap, 100ppm)

1.2EC week 1-3 (106-29-164-40-30-119)
0.9EC week 4 (95-26-148-36-27-107)
0.6EC week 5 (63-17-99-24-18-71)

KoolBloom Schudle

0.3EC week 6 (5-45-91-2-3-0)

Flush week 7-10

a difference? i have yet to run the same plant twice with/without koolbloom. but with the level we are running we arn't exactly pushing the plant real hard.

couple notes:

notice at week 5 we are only runinng 100ppm K? stretch will have fully stopped and bud set should be in full swing.

notice at week 6 we are still at 100ppm K but now at almost 50ppm P - giving us x2-x3 the amout of P in the previous week. week 6 is also important for bud structure.

notice over the first 6 weeks of flower - N goes from 100ppm in week 3, is cut in half witin the same amount of time and only 5ppm N in week 6.

i am not using koolbloom as a high pk booster.
i am using koolbloom as a low nitrogen finisher.

i am not "slamming them with koolbloom"
i am stepping down the availability of macros and micros in specific ratios to facilitate the stages of flowering.

 

[slowandeasy]

Powdered Kool Bloom? 4 week flush? Kinda long...what medium?

 

[dansbuds]

I ran flora series for years and my herb never tasted this good.

I said this ICbuds & everybody thought i was crazy . with GH my buds were ALOT less tasteless than anything else i ran . V&B has been the best for reviving the taste & frost factor with canna coming in a close second .

if i had a sealed room with co2 and gavitas i would try something like vegbloom with aptus.

I've thought about the Aptus Facilitator just to keep the stretch down on some of the sativas i run ( limited headroom ) ... the bushmaster is toxic & ya can't use it in coco anyways . but at the price of the stuff .... i'll keep to training & LST instead

 

[rives]

Interesting, jjf, thanks for the detail. I've had problems running V+B at that low of an EC for during the first three weeks of flowering, that is what I'm using during veg. I show myriad deficiencies during veg below 1.0-1.2, and damn hungry, pale girls below 1.6 in weeks 1-3.

Dan, have you tried chewing on a leaf stem? I've always been in the habit of chewing on one of the damn things when I'm opening the plant up a bit, and I've noticed an incredible difference with V+B. Normally the stems are very bitter and will pucker you right up - with V+B they are have just a hint of an astringent effect, and after the plant is in the flushing stage they are sweet. Amazing difference.

 

[Hydrolized]

Got my sample...that was fast ......after reading this thread before and after my post it still just doesn't seem like a "one hit wonder". Don't get me wrong I'm not a lazy grower by any means...put down many hours a day in the rooms...and this isn't an excuse for me to be lazy...I'm just looking for a nutrient that will make my grow/life more efficient. This V+B seems to be good except for the high N which is causing people to cut back early and possibly giving up yield if not using a PK booster...so it turns into every other nutrient where you need to start changing your feed or adding things to it while cutting back etc....I know exactly what I'm looking for doesn't exist, the "golden nutrient" haha.......but on a KISS basis I still can't find anything better than Maxi if your NOT in DWC like me....perfect ratios, no redic high N, no lacking of P, no need to cut back BEFORE the halfway mark of flowering due to N like V+B....when I ran coco I ran 7g/gal from clones in Veg to week 7 flower and never once had a yield/quality issue.....I would just switch back to coco from DWC but that again goes against my quest for the most efficient grow setup.

I'm going to do one run with it back to back with my normal Duo setup following the cut back at 3 week mark that you guys are talking about, just to give it a chance at least.

 

[dansbuds]

Dan, have you tried chewing on a leaf stem? I've always been in the habit of chewing on one of the damn things when I'm opening the plant up a bit, and I've noticed an incredible difference with V+B. Normally the stems are very bitter and will pucker you right up - with V+B they are have just a hint of an astringent effect, and after the plant is in the flushing stage they are sweet. Amazing difference.

No i don't chew on the leaves or stems ... but the dog does she'll grab a few leaves off the floor as i'm defoliating or topping . & some times i notice she'll spit them out like she didn't like the taste but i haven't seen her spit them out lately ... so she must like that taste of the V&B


I've been running a bit stronger in veg than i used to & noticed a big difference myself ( 1.2 to 1.6 ) . they're healthier growing faster & a nice green sheen to them now .
i guess it pays to follow the directions huh ???

 

[rives]

i guess it pays to follow the directions huh ???

I apparently have a very difficult time with that concept myself! Think how many trees could be saved if they would just stop printing up shit that we aren't going to look at anyhow.

 

[jayjayfrank]

Powdered Kool Bloom? 4 week flush? Kinda long...what medium?

gold label coco, 3L airpots, 100ppm tap water.

sams says he likes resin that gets low nitrogen in late flower. heads schedule already flushes for 3 weeks. this is only assuming 9-10 week flowering period. rezs recipe used powder koolbloom. red said he liked his plants 'dead on vine'. not yet sure what i am going to do for 14 week sativas.

2 weeks of water and they still fox tail(slightly) and shoot out baby green fan leafs. it seems to me that veg+bloom keeps them in a higher quality health and so plants can go longer without showing signs of the plant being unhealthy.

 

[Hydrolized]

So I take it from these posts the general consensus is V+B has a bit too much N?

 

[ICbuds]

V+B has the perfect amount of N for me. My consensus from your last 3 posts would be that you just got a sample and are all ready critical of a product you haven't even used. Check my galleries for excess N. I like a bit of stretch in early flower, it reduces my veg time. my shit has been nothing but large and in charge since switching to veg+bloom. Take it or leave it.

 

[rives]

I don't think that it has excessive N, but I don't fully agree with what has become the "traditional" mindset on N levels. I ran time-release nutrients for quite a while, and was impressed with the overall health of the plants throughout their lives. The only thing that I didn't like was the inability to flush at the end, which is really the only reason that I got away from them.

V+B takes a mental adjustment for people that are comfortable with doing things in the manner that has become the norm for most growers. Relax, stick fairly close to the directions, and see what you think of the results.

 

[dansbuds]

I don't think that it has excessive N, but I don't fully agree with what has become the "traditional" mindset on N levels.

V+B takes a mental adjustment for people that are comfortable with doing things in the manner that has become the norm for most growers. Relax, stick fairly close to the directions, and see what you think of the results.

 

[slowandeasy]

My SSSDH side by side is going well. The V+B buds are slightly bigger, but noticeably more frosty. It is week 4,going a minimum 7 more weeks. Feeding 1.6EC.......when should I cut back? Hand water canna coco. Thanks