American Cannabis Breeding In The Early 20th Century

[PazVerdeRadical]

cooter, i am asking because if one is able to make quality rope/textiles with drug-lines; it is possible that one strain was all you needed to grow both drug and hemp.

zam, mexico is interesting; monterrey was founded about three times, in the late 1500s; during those early times, it is said that around one-fourth of the population were jewish/sephardites; but who mantained their faith secretly as well as their traditions and customs in order to avoid persecution. this may have been yet another way through which cannabis seeds found their way into american continents.

one more thing i am not sure we have much info about is the origin of drug lines in colombia; when, why and how did colombia become such a big producer? coca is understandably since it is a local crop; but why cannabis? as far as i know, cannabis for drug was being grown there widely before it became a cash crop after ww2. wasn't it? correct me if i am wrong.

paz

 

[cooter1]

Zamalito good insight on the slaves in all because I really don’t buy into them contributing much of anything but their job and that was labor. Yeah long trips like that and little to eat I can bet you that 1st sachet of seed was gone very fast. I mean really most didn’t even have cloths if any at all it would be a loin cloth.

When first reading this thread, my thought process went backwards. Meaning in order to identify cannabis recreational use and medical we must understand the commercial hemp of that time to find our answer if that makes any sense?

More research and answers I believe are to be found. I think French, British, and Spanish/Portugal historical documents and manifests could answer allot as these were the big 3 of the time of international trade. Also researching tax records from the first 13 colonies since they were still primary under British rule could answer some and lead us to where the items where sold …that enables us to see that certain corps were produced for fiber and some exported back to Europe for medical purposes vis/versa.

Also if you read my 1st post with the excerpts...this demonstrates once again big pharmacy and the bottom line the dollar. They basically ruined any continuance of the medical purposes by not being selective from where they did receive their gross product. This does not mean all pharmacy companies held this practice, as I do believe some actually cared about health and not the bottom dollar.

As stated in the medical journal of doctors during the civil war the inconsistencies and which basically debunked it medical purposes...although they would have never indulged in production if it didn’t work right? Big business once again got in the way good medicine.

The hurry hurry attitude which probably lead to a weak product and its cease. The case still made to today by those against it.

Paz- I believe thats what some would strive for..is it possiable? I dunno
it would make the job allot easier but a short squat plant with wide leaves isnt going to be desirable for hemp production if that says anything

 

[bythetracks]

The accepted theory on brazilian cannabis is that it is descended from seeds brought over by slaves but after further research I've come to the conclusion that much of the original brazilian drug cannabis gene pool was originally from hemp. The old brazilian strains typically aren't overpoweringly strong but definitely strong enough and on par with some of the more sativa dominant old southern homegrown. Some of the people of angola where portugal kidnapped most of their slaves from were known to carry dolls, pouches and talisman filled with cannabis seeds. However, first of all sailors of the 18th and 19th centuries were notoriously superstitious and I doubt they would allow the slaves to carry anything that could possibly used for placing a hex or casting a spell on the voyage. Then even if they could get the seeds aboard they would've probably been eaten since food was scarce during the 35-45 day voyage from Angola to Brazil. The angolan population after seeing the hemp introduced by portugal probably recognized it as the same plant from their homeland and were allowed to cultivate it by the plantation owners planting it in between the rows of sugar cane. In Mexico the same thing happened where much of the original drug cannabis strains are also thought to be descended from hemp. After several years of attempting to introduce hemp cultivation to Mexico the church advised the crown to cease because the Indian laborers had started to use the plant as an intoxicant. The reason why this didn't also occur in the united states is because the English took their slaves from regions of Africa where cannabis use and cultivation is thought to have not become commonplace until after WWII.

I don't know about Brazil, but many Africans came to North America not as slaves but as free men or indentured servants. They certainly brought seeds of other plants with them. This fact is often forgotten.

I also read once that in modern Lagos, Nigeria, marijuana(as a drug) is referred to as "Indian Hemp." Nigeria and the surrounding areas are where most of the Africans in North America and the Carribean originated, but some were also from the Congo, Angola and even east Africa.

I don't think anyone is arguing with Sam the strains that have been bread for high THC are superior for drug use, only that some pre-modern hemp strains had enough THC to get someone who hasn't been smoking haze for 30 years high. I'm sure some of the posters on here have obscenely high tolerances.

It's also worth mentioning that some 19th Century accounts of Westerners using cannabis as a drug aren't about smoking marijuana, but swallowing large amounts of hashish. How much hashish made from a plant whose dried female flowers average 2% THC would one have to swallow to get really high?

It's been mentioned repeatedly on this thread that potent drug cannabis loses its potency in temperate climates, but is the reverse also true? Would European hemp strains brought to the tropical and subtropical Americas have increased their THC level as they acclimated? What about to the deep South? If you established a feral hemp population in southern Louisiana from ditch weed in Nebraska, and came back 50 years later, would the LA plants average higher THC?

 

[bythetracks]

cooter, i am asking because if one is able to make quality rope/textiles with drug-lines; it is possible that one strain was all you needed to grow both drug and hemp.

zam, mexico is interesting; monterrey was founded about three times, in the late 1500s; during those early times, it is said that around one-fourth of the population were jewish/sephardites; but who mantained their faith secretly as well as their traditions and customs in order to avoid persecution. this may have been yet another way through which cannabis seeds found their way into american continents.

one more thing i am not sure we have much info about is the origin of drug lines in colombia; when, why and how did colombia become such a big producer? coca is understandably since it is a local crop; but why cannabis? as far as i know, cannabis for drug was being grown there widely before it became a cash crop after ww2. wasn't it? correct me if i am wrong.

paz

From what I've read, marijuana was introduced to Columbia from Panama around 1900(I haven't seen any written evidence that marijuana was there before that, but Columbian history isn't well know in the US), and was mostly cultivated in the part of columbia near Panama, where it was used mainly by the lower classes, until the late sixties/early seventies, when production exploded accross the country to fill the demand from America. American traffickers may have actually went to Columbia, bought up all the marijuana they could get and told the people to grow lots more. New enormous plantations were started up in remote places solely for export to the USA. there are several distinct varities of drug cannabis in columbia, which would support the many stories about seeds being imported during the 60's/70's to feed commerical production. Probably lots of different groups were growing small amounts of marijuana for their own use in different parts of the country before that time.

Someone on here once broke down what the main Columbian strains were what they were labeled when they were exported to America. The reds, gold, blacks etc. and a few others. If you do a search, there should be more information.
here's some: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=41526&page=7&pp=15

 

[cooter1]

yeah well we all thought allot of stuff as did some well researched folks here but as I quoted from here it is again

Cannabis sativa, too, was available in the early days of the new world. This plant was not indigenous to the Americas, but brought to the area by the Spaniards, with cannabis first appearing in Chile, where the Spanish introduced it in 1545 (Brecher, 1972).

Sure Africans came to America on thier own right after they built that big ass viking ship,lol joking anyhow there is much info that has not been touched or needs to be re-discovered from those old dusty books that lay hidden in grandmas attic or an estate sale. I'm a book junkie although much arent canna related but i do keep my eyes out for them.

 

[Ganico]

Zamalito good insight on the slaves in all because I really don’t buy into them contributing much of anything but their job and that was labor. Yeah long trips like that and little to eat I can bet you that 1st sachet of seed was gone very fast. I mean really most didn’t even have cloths if any at all it would be a loin cloth.

Many of the main "traditional" food crops in the south are originally from Africa! Even cooking styles, hell even "southern BBQ" is from africa! I don't see why many different food crops would have been brought over but no cannabis seeds whatsover. Especially since "hemp" was prized then.

Regardless, they contributed a lot more than "just their job", and "labor". They contributed vast and integral elements of southern food and culture. With all due respect, you sound like a goon.

 

[zamalito]

Glad to see a fellow book junky. I collect plant books in general. My favorite thing to collect is the old botanical watercolor plates.

Another thing to note is that Colombia and Panama were one in the same at one point. I'm a bit confused and paz, I'm sure you know more about Panamanian/Colombian history than I but from what I understand America did a lot of interfering in Colombian/Panamanian politics to build the canal. At one point supporting the Colombian reacquisition of Panama. Then when colombia refused to submit to all of the terms, the US changed sides and successfully supported the independence of Panama. The earliest references of mainstream Cannabis use in the region that I know of are from the digging of the canal in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. However this is in modern day Panama not Colombia but like cooter said there was probably some cultivation of the border. The Spanish crown attempted to introduce hemp in the late 17th century but it failed for whatever reason probably because there was already several good native fiber plants which already existed in the country. I think it probably arrived during the canal period since the first laws against cannabis were created in the 1920's. As I stated before the canal was one of the first intense mixing of cultures to happen in the new world. The 1969 edition of Victor Manuel Patino's Plantas cultivadas y animales domésticos en America equinoccial: plantas miscelaneas, Volume III, the first mentions of illegal cannabis plantations in Colombian newspapers were in the mid 1940's. It would be interesting if someone could track these articles down and find out where these plantations were and whether they were highland or lowland, eastern or western, tracking the original dispersal from the Panamanian border. I think it would find that lowland cultivation predated highland. I don't buy that Panama red is descended from Colombian red. Red strains seem to be common throughout non-andean south america and are possibly the oldest. Also like cooter said during the 70's there was more than likely a large importation of genetics possibly from Brazil, southern Asia and the caribbean. However the may have been an array of strains in Colombia before this importation of genetics caused by the wide variety of people brought to work the canal and the extreme variations in climate.

 

[zamalito]

Ganico, there simply wasn't much cannabis use in the portion of Africa where american slaves came from until WWII. Bythetracks pointed out that in Nigeria they call drug cannabis "indian hemp" which linguistically is and English description of the plant. If it was an early introduction they either be using words based on the indian word bhang like bhangi/mbangi/mbanji or other words which have long histories ion the continent like dagga, riamba, liamba, diamba etc.

The fact that southern cooking styles came from africa also is not suprising as this is how the African population knew how to cook and was passed on for generations. As much as I don't like to give credit to slave traders Its well documented that they were the ones who plants like Okra and Collards and not the slaves themselves. It is interesting how sweet potatoes and yams are completely unrelated. Sweet potatoes being a native american a vine and member of the ipomaea (morning glory) family and yams are bushes though I can't remember which family. Yet, the products are indistinguishable and after the slaves discovered the sweet potato for themselves gave it the same religious significance that their cousins across the atlantic had given to the yam.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

yes zam, panama and colombia used to be one single country; american intervensionism once again played its role as you say. but, if you look at the map, the boarders of colombia with panama are not andean;and panama has no andes at all, and the traditional places out of which strains like santa marta gold and punto rojo come fromare strictly andean; i don't know how do we account for the uniqueness of colombian drug lines either if we don't take micro climates into account. ?

in 'la parabola de pablo' by alonso salazar j, a book written by a colombian journalist about escobar's life; he says how prior to prohibition, in colombia and many south american countries, our ancestors were using 'tonics' prepared by european pharmas out of coca, cannabis and opium.
considering that big pharmas were planting drug cannabis in colombia prior to prohibition is a lot more likely than any other theory this would suggest.

we have chilenean growers too who have gone to the wild patches of hemp in chile;
they have picked up seeds and grown them too; although i dunno how potent the stuff turns out to be though.
i should ask someone...

paz.

 

[cooter1]

Don’t get me started on Bar-b-Q I've had this argument before with people who watch too much TV or food network,lol

Its quite simple so here goes for ya,lol Bar-b-q is cooking on an open/closed pit of coals right?

What did all these other non African cultures cook their meat in or on before the learned to bar-b--q from the Africans lol

Get real here don’t tell us they boiled there meat all the time: it was over a flame lol hehe geez

Yes some vegetables were introduced from Africa to the south and yes African Americans indulged in them so what? Your comments lack and creditability and keep the insults like goon to yourself your posts in this thread have nothing to with cannabis, it was civil until you added your mis-information.

 

[zamalito]

Ganico, if I had a nickle for every question I've asked or time I've gotten something wrong I'd have a bunch of nickles, but still would be broke lol. At least you're learning, right? I assume the even the most knowledgeable guys among us still frequently learn new things through experimentation and asking questions.

About the George Washington quote about growing indian hemp. Today, I was looking through a very old edition of Sturtevant's Edible Plants and notices the entry for Indian hemp is actually Hibiscus cannabinus aka bastard jute/kanaf/deckaner hemp.

The most common name at the time for Apocynum cannabinum (black indian hemp, hemp dogbane) was also Indian Hemp, a reference to the Native American Indians who were known to use the plant extensively. This is also thought to be the plant responsible for the many sightings of wild hemp in early colonial times. I've also seen references to Eupatorium cannabinum (hemp agrimony) calling it Indian hemp a reference to India where this plant is used for fiber. In fact there's really no reason to believe Washington had any knowledge of the potential intoxicant properties of cannabis or that indian hemp referred to the central and south asian cousins of the fiber plants he grew. Although, there most definitely people in the new world who did have knowledge of this at the time.To me it seems more likely that washington used the adjective "Indian" to describe the plants grown by the native constituents of the country he governed. He was a prick , a war criminal and salesman of lands that belonged to indians and probably would've been a lot more cool if he smoked reefer. Besides, who would wanna share a bong with someone who has termites living in his wooden teeth.

"Man, whenever I light up Washington always appears appears in the room to mooch. Then after he hits the joint, I've gotta wipe it off because he always leaves his termite feces all over it!"

 

[Guest]

Washington had a wooden tooth?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

zam lol @ washington... all these forefathers always seem just human, too human, to be sources of inspiration. u know?

cooter1, holy cow where did u get all those references on peruvian mummies from? it shouldn't be surprising though; we know those ancient andean civilizations had some cool transportation technologies, from sailing ships up to airplanes, but that is a whole other subject... but as i said, the andes are almost unexplored and there are many species to be 'discovered' and 'classified' by modern man.

paz.

 

[EddieShoestring]

great read so far guys......................

don't think that anyone has mentioned pollen analysis -it's a pretty standard archaeological tool-anyone with access to a decent academic library in the US should be able to do a brief survey of the appearance of hemp in the US pollen record-

i think Asian drug hemp came to the Carribean from c.1800 with the Indian and Chinese indentured workers that were moved there by the British when straight slavery was failing to provide an adequate workforce for their plantations.
I'm not really up on the history of American settlement but if you were looking for the cultivation of drug cannabis in the US prior to early C20 perhaps the early Asian immigrant communities may be another avenue of research.

 

[cooter1]

Dont know how to post this without comming off as a nutsucker but here goes,lol

I just got finished skimming thru allot of Sam's post in differnt threads, and I have to say I have wasted allot time researching when all I had to do was read thru his post in several differnt threads,lol

Just about all info I had found and would have posted its been done. Saves abit of time for me I guess.

I enjoyed re-affirming allot of his findings about thc content and the hand of man & landraces by doing my own research. A big thumbs up for keeping the truth alive.props

editut all this in 1 book or several volumes cant rely on the internet forever or sites like these to stay up forever and accurate copy and pasting from others when your long gone just a thought...

 

[zamalito]

Yeah, I normally won't question what Sam says. I think a lot of people don't understand that Sam isn't here to try and sell seeds or to increase his reputation. He's here purely to share the truly immense amount he's learned on the subject through experience, experimentation and trial and error. He's definitely shaken up my viewpoints quite a lot. I wish there was a way we could show our appreciation instead of throwing questions at him.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Yes some drug lines can be used for hemp production, but it depends for what end use. For example drug varieties of cannabis can out produce hemp varieties for total seed weight per hectare. Drug varieties like Skunk #1 have almost as much fiber as some of the varieties used for fiber. The same must be true for pulp for paper, drug varieties could be used.
The problem is that local governments will not allow drug varieties to be grown for seed to make oil, because the plants could be stolen and smoked and the seeds could be grown and the results smoked.
With 19 to 25.8% pure fibre content (the breadth of female and male plants), Kompolti TC achieved higher values than those of Felina 34 (17.3 to 22.8%)
Skunk #1 can yield 18% fiber in females, a bit higher in males.

Table 3. Characterization of stem fiber content in gene bank accessions.
Fiber content
(% d.w.) .........Number of accessions

10-15% ----- 88
16-20% -----125
21-25% ----- 20
26-30% ----- 27
>30% ------ 10

-SamS

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

sam, that is real cool though; that one can gather fiber as well as drug from the very same strain.
and although i know modern goverments post prohibition won't allow it, does this mean that prior
to prohibition hemp growers were breeding potency out though? as pointed out before, the natural thing would be to
breed for hemp and drug at the same time.

so many ways in which both cannabis for hemp and drug could have been brought to the americas;
pre-colombian ways could have been vikings/chinese/arabs or pre-colombian civilizations themselves bringing it there;
then the spanish, african, indian (from india, who populated all british colonies, including british guyana next to venezuela) the jewish and the chinese...

paz

 

[zamalito]

I didn't know that about sk1. That's really impressive. Is there a way for homegrowers to calculate fiber content?

 

[Guest]

Yeah, I normally won't question what Sam says. I think a lot of people don't understand that Sam isn't here to try and sell seeds or to increase his reputation. He's here purely to share the truly immense amount he's learned on the subject through experience, experimentation and trial and error. He's definitely shaken up my viewpoints quite a lot. I wish there was a way we could show our appreciation instead of throwing questions at him.

I've met Sam a couple of times and the impression I got is that he's a very straight-ahead, no-BS type of person, no time for mickey-mouse BS or arguing, which can make him seem a little brusque sometimes, but you gotta respect him for his approach, he just simply ignores and avoids all nonsense and sticks to what he knows. I agree about thanking him without asking questions. When I was chatting to him at the 420 Cup it was hard to just make small-talk without constantly asking questions, I guess that happens when you become a legend, when folks meet you in prson they find it hard to avoid asking questions.

Talking about drug strains and their usefulness for fibre production, I am pretty sure a lot of the equatorial sativas I've grown particularly Mexican and Thai varieties, would produce a lot of fibre. I have seen for myself how Mexican, Thai etc when grown in higher latitudes outdoors or indoors under lights with lower wattages often do not produce much in the way of smokeable bud with high potency, they grow tall and lots of stem materials, just don't produce much good bud. I have grown Thai types here in England that got tall with lots of stem, in fact grew like bamboo, tall, straight and looked lioke hemp as they never came close to finishing. I could have harvedted them early, say mid-August and yielded virtually no bud but lots of fibre, so I can see how a variety of hemp from India or Africa when grown in Europe would be a fibre crop wth little smokeable material yet when grown somewhere like S America or the Caribbean would be a viable drug crop. I would tend to think that hemp seed would have been very widely available but to the global trade of the British and others, with no knowledge of breeding or modern drug variety cultivation techniques, you'd only be able to grow those seeds into a drug crop if you lived somewhere with a suitable climate and season. Back in the days of sailing ships, vast quantities of hemp were needed to make canvas, rope etc. Hundreds of miles of rope were needed for every ship, plus acres of canvas for sails etc. The barrier between making the obvious link between hemp for rope and hemp for dope is cultural, British culture acted as a barrier, perhaps in places like Colombia and Mexico, the cultural barriers weren't there and that is how and why they came to be dope smoking and producing regions. Us Anglo-Saxons have alcohol ingrained in our culture as our primary (and often sole) intoxicant, beer has been an important part of our culture for over a millenia, possibly two millenia, I suppose this is largely attributable to the suitability of our climate for growing grains like Barley, I wonder if we had a climate suitable for growing drug cannabis if dope would have become our main intoxicant instead?