ya that...... I will be looking for scentless,in no way is a scent in the medium gonna help growing my dope
-
ICMag with help from Phlizon, Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest for Christmas! You can check it here. Prizes are: full spectrum led light, seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Alternate sources for Calcined Clay (Turface, ProChoice, etc)
- Thread starter EclipseFour20
- Start date
Miraculous,
I believe the DE used in Napa oil absorbent products is ocean based...which is not the cleanest and usually contains a chemical dust reducer (diatom dust is nasty on the lungs). The cleanest DE is sourced from fresh water and is food grade quality, known as "Fossil Shell Flour". The diatoms are ground super, super fine...consistency of talcum powder and is mostly plant available amorphous silica (which is the primary reason why I include FSF in my grow medium).
I was paying just under $5 for a 25 lb bag of Oil-Dri at Walmart (which they stopped carrying) and now I pay just under $4 for 25 lb of "kitty litter". Same shit...identical, just a $1 cheaper.
I believe the DE used in Napa oil absorbent products is ocean based...which is not the cleanest and usually contains a chemical dust reducer (diatom dust is nasty on the lungs). The cleanest DE is sourced from fresh water and is food grade quality, known as "Fossil Shell Flour". The diatoms are ground super, super fine...consistency of talcum powder and is mostly plant available amorphous silica (which is the primary reason why I include FSF in my grow medium).
I was paying just under $5 for a 25 lb bag of Oil-Dri at Walmart (which they stopped carrying) and now I pay just under $4 for 25 lb of "kitty litter". Same shit...identical, just a $1 cheaper.
While I strongly recommend the stuff, 8822 is Diatomaceous Earth, and not calcined clay.
You sir, are dead inside.
MJtheIndicator
Member
Maybe SafeTSorb?
Montmorillonite Clay, Calcined 87 - 90% 70892-59-0 10 mg/m! 5 mg/m!
Crystalline Silica (Quartz) 7 – 10% 14808-60-7 0.1 mg/m! 5 mg/m!/%SiO2+2
Crystalline Silica (Cristobalite) <3% 14464-46-1 0.05 mg/m! 5 mg/m!/%SiO2+2
Or maybe Microbe Lift Pond Calicium Montmorillonite Clay?
Montmorillonite Clay, Calcined 87 - 90% 70892-59-0 10 mg/m! 5 mg/m!
Crystalline Silica (Quartz) 7 – 10% 14808-60-7 0.1 mg/m! 5 mg/m!/%SiO2+2
Crystalline Silica (Cristobalite) <3% 14464-46-1 0.05 mg/m! 5 mg/m!/%SiO2+2
Or maybe Microbe Lift Pond Calicium Montmorillonite Clay?
Price for 25lb?
MJtheIndicator
Member
Safe T Sorb™ Oil Absorbent, 40 lb. $5.99
koi clays, probably a few to choose from with range for those Calcium Bentonite / Montmorillonite Clays hovering around $60 per 24 lb. pond clays or aquarium substrates might run higher pricing, but its more refined, fish-friendly etc. Either route throw in some gypsum and that's a fine northern substrate. Greensand or alluvial style loamy, silt beneath a clay topping can also be cost effective.
GRAB IT!
Snook
Still Learning
Could not find MVP locally so i used napa 8822 ($5/bag) un-amended for a couplea years. washed it 2-3 times to get the dust and fines out and used it 100% for media. it worked great but cleaning it after a grow was a PITA. that stuff, Diatomaceous Earth (napa8822), keeps breaking down during use and cleaning, causing, when dried, additional dust and fines and, when wet, accumulations in the bottom of the rez every grow. roots seemed to want to stay imbedded in it when cleaning.
kept looking for MVP and finally found the last 7 bags from a wholesaler down in Boynton Beach, Florida. It is 'dusty' when first used but that goes away after a good washing and a grow or two. the mvp was more expensive, $12/bag and do not know if it is Montmorillonite or Bentonite, lol. Cleaning takes much less time by pouring it thru 1/4" screen, the majority of roots stick to the screen, the rest are washed out, 1,2,3.
kept looking for MVP and finally found the last 7 bags from a wholesaler down in Boynton Beach, Florida. It is 'dusty' when first used but that goes away after a good washing and a grow or two. the mvp was more expensive, $12/bag and do not know if it is Montmorillonite or Bentonite, lol. Cleaning takes much less time by pouring it thru 1/4" screen, the majority of roots stick to the screen, the rest are washed out, 1,2,3.
Guess the advantage with Kitty Litter is the reduced dust...almost all granules. So when the price is less than $10 for 75 lbs or so for calcined montmorillonite clay--I say we are good "bottom feeders" and deserve a reward for our frugality. Sculpin IPA time anyone?
Snook
Still Learning
mabe I led you down the wrong path... the kitty litter/oildri scenario is more dusty to start and continues to degrade and produce more dust as it is used and cleaned as it drys out...
With the walmart brand? Crazy, mine is basically free of dust--could be different sources of "clay", depending on where you are. Here is So Cali, there is little to zero dust when I "empty the bag" (unlike perlite).
But the key is...you have a source for calcined clay is affordable. All the auto part shops here do not carry "calcined clay oil absorbent" in their floor inventory--but are willing to special order it. I pay cash at Walmart and "leave no trace".
washed and rinsed of dust do you all find this suitable for as an inert standalone medium for a flood and drain or top feed hydro? ive heard folks are using it but didnt know if they were chunking it up with some other bigger aggregate. ive also wondered about using lava or pumice too. i know its old school hydro and a little off topic but why arent people using pumice by the truckload. its hella cheap. why did that practice die off in favor of the manmade expanded clay.
oh i dont hate cats im just scared of them and they gross me out. i have nightmares about cats. i think i may have a mental illess.
Str8...download this pdf file. http://www.fao.org/hortivar/scis/doc/publ/8.pdf
It contains excellent data on content, element composition and porosity numbers for most growing aggregates we use. Around page 40 or so is where the aggregate info starts. Research pumice and lava, you will be surprised.
A most valuable resource indeed.
It contains excellent data on content, element composition and porosity numbers for most growing aggregates we use. Around page 40 or so is where the aggregate info starts. Research pumice and lava, you will be surprised.
A most valuable resource indeed.
are you guys including the clay for the CEC aspect? Its interesting, I have seen lots of talk about it for planted aquariums, but this is the first time I have seen someone use it in a soil mix, sorry if im late to the party, should have read the thread, on my way out the door, just thought it was cool.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Check out delta9nxs's threads on ppk's. Hes been using napa 8822 and turface. I couldn't easily source those so I used CC, like we are talking about here. SafTsorb, is packaged a few different ways, but if u look on the back it all is the same stuff if it says CC, fullers earth, and is from that mont.? company.
My experience when using it as a standalone was that it clogged up my drain for my planter. 3 of the 4 plants showed root drowning probs I believe from the CC breaking down and not enough space in the root zone for air. Also it could be that I got root bound to a degree. I had one of the 4 plants growing pretty well but I had put rice hulls in this one and I think that saved it from filling all the air gaps. But it too eventually showed signs of roots not being able to breathe. I wouldn't use that product as a straight stand alone. D9 and fellas stick with napa 8822 if u want stand alone, or turface. The napa like the CC u have to rinse the hell out of or u get all this powdery debris in ur res and that also fills all the air pockets in the root zone.
CEC, minerals, increased fertility efficiency, and liquid absorption capacities are my primary reasons.
An interesting study that might help shed some light is here--www.nurserycropscience.info/substrates/alternates/technical-pubs/owen-2004-calcined-clay-rate-sna.pdf
I add calcined clay to my grow medium around 6-7% by volume--but I also include a goodly amount of vermiculite too. That study concluded 11% was the sweet spot...but not for me.
basically its not worth the savings. low porosity means youll be on a constant drip to maintain nutrient availability.
the pumice is what i was talking about there^^^^^
