----
----
I kill me...
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Alien*D{}G--HPS(400w +)Soil,17 Lady-Scrog,Training,Super Silver Haze,SourD*Test Grow*
- Thread starter DamnUglyDogE
- Start date
--------I kill me...
Well, ad, I agree with some of what you said but have a few concerns overall.
One of the first things that I'll comment on is what appears to be some real interest and dedication to gardening. Your effort is significant, and your willingness to document for your own records indicates that commitment.
Sadly, your girls are not a reflection of that adoration.
Here are some general thoughts that may or may not be relevant to your situation:
Grow system:
I recommend either: Drain To Waste Coco in smart pots, or Hempies.
Both are reasonably buffered, and both allow for run off that keeps crazy-build-ups out of the system.
Organic vs. Synthetic
I find myself recommending a synthetic approach to new gardeners. There is plenty of science that has gone into developing these fertigation schedules, and there is plenty of first hand experience on boards like this one that tell you what works. Take any of the recommended feeds out of any of the KISS threads right out of the bottle, use the schedule with a reasonable pH (something between 5.6-6.3ish), and you will have some very nice nice plant growth.
I suggest that you:
Do not supplement.
Do not innovate.
Do not change a thing.
Just feed Lucas, or Dynagro, or Jacks, or whatever the cheap-and-easy thing is in your town.
Do not worry about fine tuning this or that... just let the plant grow. Then, once you've seen the baseline characteristics of your genetics, you can start trying to modify the environment for more particular outcomes.
I recommend you follow the environmental controls that DHF (Dead Head Fred) preaches on this board. There are other tallented mentors with sophisticated knowledge, but he's simplified his approach down to a mantra.
You should seek him out, but to summarize:
-2x air exchange of the entire grow room per minute.
-70% RH in veg, 50% RH in flower
-Temps under the mid 80s.
-~50w/sqfoot
The effects of these factors on plant physiology is profound, and the theories behind it is more than I will get into here. If you are unfamiliar with the notion of Vapor Pressure Deficit, I recommend that as a place to start. Everything is related, but VPD is one of the most overlooked--an non-intuitive--factors in plant metabolism for new growers.
All of your used media can be stockpiled and eventually become the foundation of building organic soils.
Organic grows are almost a moral imperative in the long term, as only this methodology really allows for sustainable productivity. But building organic soils do not guarantee a healthy plant, as you might add the wrong shit, and you really don't know what's happening below the surface. Moreover, silly little mistakes can derail your microherd, and you, my friend, are no substitute for the microherd.
As it stands, looking at the general health of your plants, I'm afraid you wouldn't even know if it was working, much less what might be wrong with it if you had problems.
So I recommend that at your next chance, you simplify everything, practice patience, and learn in parallel through study as you grow healthier plants with a simple system.
Once, a roaming teacher came into my world and taught many people how to grow with a KISS system. It worked for everyone. Until they decided that they knew better and tried to get inventive. And then the crops failed, and genetics were lost. And that was just the beginning of the hardship.
There is a lot of learning, understanding, and knowing between being a master grower an a novice. Your timeline is not unreasonable, and can be that fast, if you can simplify your approach to learn what there is to be learned from simplicity first...
Ah.
This post is way too long.
I wish you the best.
One of the first things that I'll comment on is what appears to be some real interest and dedication to gardening. Your effort is significant, and your willingness to document for your own records indicates that commitment.
Sadly, your girls are not a reflection of that adoration.
Here are some general thoughts that may or may not be relevant to your situation:
Grow system:
I recommend either: Drain To Waste Coco in smart pots, or Hempies.
Both are reasonably buffered, and both allow for run off that keeps crazy-build-ups out of the system.
Organic vs. Synthetic
I find myself recommending a synthetic approach to new gardeners. There is plenty of science that has gone into developing these fertigation schedules, and there is plenty of first hand experience on boards like this one that tell you what works. Take any of the recommended feeds out of any of the KISS threads right out of the bottle, use the schedule with a reasonable pH (something between 5.6-6.3ish), and you will have some very nice nice plant growth.
I suggest that you:
Do not supplement.
Do not innovate.
Do not change a thing.
Just feed Lucas, or Dynagro, or Jacks, or whatever the cheap-and-easy thing is in your town.
Do not worry about fine tuning this or that... just let the plant grow. Then, once you've seen the baseline characteristics of your genetics, you can start trying to modify the environment for more particular outcomes.
I recommend you follow the environmental controls that DHF (Dead Head Fred) preaches on this board. There are other tallented mentors with sophisticated knowledge, but he's simplified his approach down to a mantra.
You should seek him out, but to summarize:
-2x air exchange of the entire grow room per minute.
-70% RH in veg, 50% RH in flower
-Temps under the mid 80s.
-~50w/sqfoot
The effects of these factors on plant physiology is profound, and the theories behind it is more than I will get into here. If you are unfamiliar with the notion of Vapor Pressure Deficit, I recommend that as a place to start. Everything is related, but VPD is one of the most overlooked--an non-intuitive--factors in plant metabolism for new growers.
All of your used media can be stockpiled and eventually become the foundation of building organic soils.
Organic grows are almost a moral imperative in the long term, as only this methodology really allows for sustainable productivity. But building organic soils do not guarantee a healthy plant, as you might add the wrong shit, and you really don't know what's happening below the surface. Moreover, silly little mistakes can derail your microherd, and you, my friend, are no substitute for the microherd.
As it stands, looking at the general health of your plants, I'm afraid you wouldn't even know if it was working, much less what might be wrong with it if you had problems.
So I recommend that at your next chance, you simplify everything, practice patience, and learn in parallel through study as you grow healthier plants with a simple system.
Once, a roaming teacher came into my world and taught many people how to grow with a KISS system. It worked for everyone. Until they decided that they knew better and tried to get inventive. And then the crops failed, and genetics were lost. And that was just the beginning of the hardship.
There is a lot of learning, understanding, and knowing between being a master grower an a novice. Your timeline is not unreasonable, and can be that fast, if you can simplify your approach to learn what there is to be learned from simplicity first...
Ah.
This post is way too long.
I wish you the best.
Dam dam dam good stuff there imaginaryfriend.. I have spent 3 days reading and re-reading the links about PPK and the links behind it.. Dam- once ya get a brain cell or two thinking about and the logic behind the process u really sit back and go... dam what was I thinking ..lol
I'm going to have to keep reading over the summer and try to get a gripe on the logic as best I can.
I just really wanted to thank u bro for the great response and heads up on a better path.
I knew there was a reason to do this journal.. for me, my 1st grow has almost nothing to do with
the final buds I might get and everything to do with finding inspiration ..
No need to respond bro- just wanted ta give a high five..
--NOTE TO OTHERS --
if u come here for more than just to grow some pot and catch a buzz.
Read I/F-post.. Great start to something better...
I'm going to have to keep reading over the summer and try to get a gripe on the logic as best I can.
I just really wanted to thank u bro for the great response and heads up on a better path.
I knew there was a reason to do this journal.. for me, my 1st grow has almost nothing to do with
the final buds I might get and everything to do with finding inspiration ..
No need to respond bro- just wanted ta give a high five..
--NOTE TO OTHERS --
if u come here for more than just to grow some pot and catch a buzz.
Read I/F-post.. Great start to something better...
Since I have to shut down soon ..not my house..I can only go micro over summer.
I wonder if I can set up a micro PPK. Thinking 3x 1gallon pots over a single Res. KISS style with simple
LST.
Thing to think about...
I wonder if I can set up a micro PPK. Thinking 3x 1gallon pots over a single Res. KISS style with simple
LST.
Thing to think about...
ad,
The PPK is the shit. No doubt in my mind. Run Jacks Pro Hydro and cal-nit at the specified concentrations, and let the plants do their thing.
Delta9nxs thread has a lot of solid growers with a lot of solid information if you choose to go that route.
But I'm definitely not trying to preach (despite my ever-present sig) that particular system over DTW or Hempies.
I've seen complicated, and I've seen simple.
Simple is much simpler.
Once simple is dialed and predictable, then you can add and change.
When some of the monster growers on these boards talk about how simple a system is, it needs to be understood that it is simple for them. There are a million details and factors that contribute to the health of a grow.
Can you tell the difference between grades of media (off the same palate) while handling it and potting plants so that you can be aware of when it changes and not get caught off guard by a media that doesn't drain the way you expected?
Can you trouble shoot yellowing in the leaves? Is it a magnesium deficiency, or a sulfur lock out, or fucking fungus gnats eating your roots? How are you able to approach these challenges?
Well, if you run Jacks, you don't have to wory about a nute issue. That shit is good to go.
So you know it must be root zone related.
Simpler, see?
So now you make sure your media is draining.
And if that doesn't fix it, it must be bugs. So now you start putting up extra traps, and knocking on the sides of the pots, and looking for any signs of infestation.
And if you can't figure that out, hit it a contact-killer pesticide for a week.
This is possible in a non-organic grow.
It is better to know what is really wrong, and it is better to grow organic.
But your knowledge and abilities must be first class.
For us average growers, while we learn, simple synthetics are simpler. And we can learn and become more involved over time as we become more sophisticated.
KISS methods/simple methods/automated methods are never an excuse not to garden or pay attention or take care of the ladies. They are never an excuse not to learn, or become a better gardener.
They just give us average growers a fighting chance.
The PPK is the shit. No doubt in my mind. Run Jacks Pro Hydro and cal-nit at the specified concentrations, and let the plants do their thing.
Delta9nxs thread has a lot of solid growers with a lot of solid information if you choose to go that route.
But I'm definitely not trying to preach (despite my ever-present sig) that particular system over DTW or Hempies.
I've seen complicated, and I've seen simple.
Simple is much simpler.
Once simple is dialed and predictable, then you can add and change.
When some of the monster growers on these boards talk about how simple a system is, it needs to be understood that it is simple for them. There are a million details and factors that contribute to the health of a grow.
Can you tell the difference between grades of media (off the same palate) while handling it and potting plants so that you can be aware of when it changes and not get caught off guard by a media that doesn't drain the way you expected?
Can you trouble shoot yellowing in the leaves? Is it a magnesium deficiency, or a sulfur lock out, or fucking fungus gnats eating your roots? How are you able to approach these challenges?
Well, if you run Jacks, you don't have to wory about a nute issue. That shit is good to go.
So you know it must be root zone related.
Simpler, see?
So now you make sure your media is draining.
And if that doesn't fix it, it must be bugs. So now you start putting up extra traps, and knocking on the sides of the pots, and looking for any signs of infestation.
And if you can't figure that out, hit it a contact-killer pesticide for a week.
This is possible in a non-organic grow.
It is better to know what is really wrong, and it is better to grow organic.
But your knowledge and abilities must be first class.
For us average growers, while we learn, simple synthetics are simpler. And we can learn and become more involved over time as we become more sophisticated.
KISS methods/simple methods/automated methods are never an excuse not to garden or pay attention or take care of the ladies. They are never an excuse not to learn, or become a better gardener.
They just give us average growers a fighting chance.
Use jacks with a top off reservoir premixed, and its super easy.
Check out oldone's PPK cab grow. There's a link in D9s sig.
Very good way to start looking at the scalability of the grow. oo went through a lot (three) different permutations and his documented experiences were very informative.
The Room 5-29-12
The Room 5-29-12
The Room 5-29-12
Overall:
I find myself in constant conflict every time I look at my ladyz.
Obviously none look great- a couple look good- a couple look ok- a few look sad and a few are just sick.
I imagine i have lost 1/2-3/4 possible yield overall and the quality suffers hard..
Sucks right... lol
Well then I remember my purpose..
Now that the Lady's are on auto pilot for the most part.
I have been spending my time trying to understand why the look as they do.
If they all looked great from day 1. I would never have looked into all the different things that are
involved in growing such a simple plant and all the ways we as newer growers like to mess it up.
I think of the seeds I now have and that alone seems worth the effort. For what i would cost to buy these seeds. lol
I am now self sufficient in my own medication and will be for some time to come.
Then there is the fun I have had doing all the things,I never
thought I would do with what I have grown.lol
So the short and simple. Here are some pics of where they are at.
Sorry for the poor quality- I have to set the cam back to higher resolution.
The Room 5-29-12
The Room 5-29-12
Overall:
I find myself in constant conflict every time I look at my ladyz.
Obviously none look great- a couple look good- a couple look ok- a few look sad and a few are just sick.
I imagine i have lost 1/2-3/4 possible yield overall and the quality suffers hard..
Sucks right... lol
Well then I remember my purpose..
Now that the Lady's are on auto pilot for the most part.
I have been spending my time trying to understand why the look as they do.
If they all looked great from day 1. I would never have looked into all the different things that are
involved in growing such a simple plant and all the ways we as newer growers like to mess it up.
I think of the seeds I now have and that alone seems worth the effort. For what i would cost to buy these seeds. lol
I am now self sufficient in my own medication and will be for some time to come.
Then there is the fun I have had doing all the things,I never
thought I would do with what I have grown.lol
So the short and simple. Here are some pics of where they are at.
Sorry for the poor quality- I have to set the cam back to higher resolution.
Attachments
SCROG 1 - Day 65:
SCROG 1 - Day 65:
SCROG 1 - Day 65:
2 x Super Silver Haze
Added the smart potz under the net- working great...
My best looking Lady's.
Just water for the SSH- will start to add molasses's next watering.
She started flowering under CFL and has been under HPS for 4 weeks now.
SCROG 1 - Day 65:
SCROG 1 - Day 65:
2 x Super Silver Haze
Added the smart potz under the net- working great...
My best looking Lady's.
Just water for the SSH- will start to add molasses's next watering.
She started flowering under CFL and has been under HPS for 4 weeks now.
Attachments
Turns out on top over watering,hard soil & over feeding there was a slight, light leak in the room. I think that is what is causing the leafs twisting and strange form. Heat has not been over 81 so should not be from heat. The light leak was very dim behind the intake air fan.
I also got a line on more seed's.
KONG:
5 reg-seeds
Crossed the Kong super plant mother with an early and potent White Russian x Bubble Gum male.
Not cheap- Told they are a few years old.
Blue Dreams:
DJ Short's Blueberry x Mr. Nice Super Silver Haze
5 Reg Seeds
Little cheaper- yet not much..lol
I have a friend helping me start my seed collection.
He is still thinking about the Kong seeds, so we shall see in a couple days.
I have also collected everything needed for a PPK set up minus a
1/4 Water Shut Off Float Valves -in the mail-
Jacks nutes- Not ordered Yet.
More on this later...
KONG:
5 reg-seeds
Crossed the Kong super plant mother with an early and potent White Russian x Bubble Gum male.
Not cheap- Told they are a few years old.
Blue Dreams:
DJ Short's Blueberry x Mr. Nice Super Silver Haze
5 Reg Seeds
Little cheaper- yet not much..lol
I have a friend helping me start my seed collection.
He is still thinking about the Kong seeds, so we shall see in a couple days.
I have also collected everything needed for a PPK set up minus a
1/4 Water Shut Off Float Valves -in the mail-
Jacks nutes- Not ordered Yet.
More on this later...
What is Vapor Pressure Deficit (VPD)?
What is Vapor Pressure Deficit (VPD)?
Yellowing leaf/ leaf rolls ? VPD might have somthing ta do with it. VPD notes.
What is Vapor Pressure Deficit (VPD)?
Yellowing leaf/ leaf rolls ? VPD might have somthing ta do with it. VPD notes.
1st Crack at a PPK System 6-5-12:
1st Crack at a PPK System 6-5-12:
1st Crack at a PPK System 6-5-12:
This system is going to be so much fun.
I have to thank( Imaginary Friend )for popping in and giving some great advise.
Which led me to an amazing link from " Delta9nxs "
Passive Plant Killer
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138004
What can I say. This is thread is by far one of the most interesting well kept full of
great ideas broken down and hashed out, fact filled threads you will ever find
on any site. In a league by it's self.
That said- It is long and after 2 solid weeks of reading and digesting the info.
I realize I have only begun. lol Itz so dam simple.
Thanks again to ImaginaryFriend for this very thought out thread ( Yet another great read )
ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=189096
There are many others that have contributed and I thank them all.
some how this whole thread seems to stay on subject, fluid and alive.
With that I will leave the rest for you to discover for yourselves.
____________________________________________________
Well now they have done it. Yep- Alien Dawg has come ta play. lol
I have the whole summer to read and plan and think and and and...lol
For now I shall keep it simple and follow the path so well laid out.
(my idea of simple that is-wink)
Talking :
Basic PPK 5 gal system
Pulse top wetting
100% House & Garden COCO
Jacks Pro Hydro and Cal/Mag
Then a few other Ideas already in the works.
Built-Doing
Coffee can PPK
3 gal Mini PPK
semi built-Thinking
Micro- Scrog & Vert
Smart Potz PPK
----------------------------------
Here it is.
Large Red Main RES-Controle bucket-PPK bucket with res-
360 gallon pump/pulse with 4 spike connector.
3 gal pot in itz own res
Coffee can PPK with itz own res
1st Crack at a PPK System 6-5-12:
1st Crack at a PPK System 6-5-12:
This system is going to be so much fun.
I have to thank( Imaginary Friend )for popping in and giving some great advise.
Which led me to an amazing link from " Delta9nxs "
Passive Plant Killer
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138004
What can I say. This is thread is by far one of the most interesting well kept full of
great ideas broken down and hashed out, fact filled threads you will ever find
on any site. In a league by it's self.
That said- It is long and after 2 solid weeks of reading and digesting the info.
I realize I have only begun. lol Itz so dam simple.
Thanks again to ImaginaryFriend for this very thought out thread ( Yet another great read )
ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=189096
There are many others that have contributed and I thank them all.
some how this whole thread seems to stay on subject, fluid and alive.
With that I will leave the rest for you to discover for yourselves.
____________________________________________________
Well now they have done it. Yep- Alien Dawg has come ta play. lol
I have the whole summer to read and plan and think and and and...lol
For now I shall keep it simple and follow the path so well laid out.
(my idea of simple that is-wink)
Talking :
Basic PPK 5 gal system
Pulse top wetting
100% House & Garden COCO
Jacks Pro Hydro and Cal/Mag
Then a few other Ideas already in the works.
Built-Doing
Coffee can PPK
3 gal Mini PPK
semi built-Thinking
Micro- Scrog & Vert
Smart Potz PPK
----------------------------------
Here it is.
Large Red Main RES-Controle bucket-PPK bucket with res-
360 gallon pump/pulse with 4 spike connector.
3 gal pot in itz own res
Coffee can PPK with itz own res
Here are the 3 gal pot and Coffee pot PPK's
You can just make out that there is plenty of room for the air gap and water.
I think this will be my favorite micro
The coffee can PPK
Nothing like a full bowl and hot cup of folgers to start the day off.
Not building yet just playing with ideas
Micro SCROG 2 plantz
Micro Vert ( 2 facing each other-400W vert bulb in the middle) In a closet.
You can just make out that there is plenty of room for the air gap and water.
I think this will be my favorite micro
The coffee can PPK
Nothing like a full bowl and hot cup of folgers to start the day off.
Not building yet just playing with ideas
Micro SCROG 2 plantz
Micro Vert ( 2 facing each other-400W vert bulb in the middle) In a closet.
2x SSH from scrog2 & Training lady 2 Day 78(cut 6-11-12)
2x SSH from scrog2 & Training lady 2 Day 78(cut 6-11-12)
2x SSH from scrog2 & Training lady 2 Day 78(cut 6-11-12)
The smallest lady is the only good nugs here. semi Frosted and dence. none growing so cut early.
The other 2 are only good for Oil.
No frost and sick looking-none growing so cut early
2x SSH from scrog2 & Training lady 2 Day 78(cut 6-11-12)
2x SSH from scrog2 & Training lady 2 Day 78(cut 6-11-12)
The smallest lady is the only good nugs here. semi Frosted and dence. none growing so cut early.
The other 2 are only good for Oil.
No frost and sick looking-none growing so cut early
Attachments
The Room 6-11-12
The Room 6-11-12
The Room 6-11-12
The Room 6-11-12
The Room 6-11-12
Scrog 1- Day 78- 6-11-12
Scrog 1- Day 78- 6-11-12
Scrog 1- Day 78- 6-11-12
There are only 2 SSH in this scrog and they just killed it compaired to Scrog2. Flipping scrog 1 and 2 are the same( same dirt at the same time and same waterings) scrog one kills it and scrog dies. strange shit..lol
Hoping to cut in 10-12 days. watering with molasses/water next watering then a big 20/25 gal flush with molasses on the tail end.
2days in the dark with a small fan and then cut.
Yep that's the plan.
I put 2 test pots under the net Day 41.
Scrog 1- Day 78- 6-11-12
Scrog 1- Day 78- 6-11-12
There are only 2 SSH in this scrog and they just killed it compaired to Scrog2. Flipping scrog 1 and 2 are the same( same dirt at the same time and same waterings) scrog one kills it and scrog dies. strange shit..lol
Hoping to cut in 10-12 days. watering with molasses/water next watering then a big 20/25 gal flush with molasses on the tail end.
2days in the dark with a small fan and then cut.
Yep that's the plan.
I put 2 test pots under the net Day 41.
Attachments
Training 1 Day 78 6-11-12
Training 1 Day 78 6-11-12
Training 1 Day 78 6-11-12
She started off so strong. Then just stalled.... Oh well. Still giving me some nice meds.
Cutting in 10/12 days. One more watering with molasses then
a 10-15 gal flush right before 2 days in the dark with small fan then cut.
Training 1 Day 78 6-11-12
Training 1 Day 78 6-11-12
She started off so strong. Then just stalled.... Oh well. Still giving me some nice meds.
Cutting in 10/12 days. One more watering with molasses then
a 10-15 gal flush right before 2 days in the dark with small fan then cut.
